parents, help here! ASPERGER'S SYNDROME (maybe)

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-I have a 9 years old niece, now in grade 2 which is supposedly grade 3 because of failing grades
-She came from the other city half away across the country
-Her parents doesn't have permanent, and descent work
-They live on a squatter area
-Now her parents had decided to leave Jelly, my nice, with us to continue her study
-And here mother went back to their home very far away from us (approximately 3 hours on a plane trip)
-On the first place, I thought she had a something different, I mean "autistic" because she acts so weird, so odd, and so unusual. But I just ignore it considering that she's adjusting her new environment. A year later, she gently open up herself to us, he talked a lot, and just like a normal kid going to school everyday not until I noticed that my first impression on her doesn't change. For me it looks like it's getting worse, the first time that I went here on this forum, I heard someone saying about ASPERGERS SYNDROME. Then I searched the net hoping that it could answer my question, when I google it and founds it on wiki, it seems like almost all the description of that mental sickness really matches on my niece, I mean not 100% but at least 55%. However, I know that wiki is not actually ACCURATE SOURCE OF KNOWLEDGE since someone and anyone can edit it's content. And so I came here to ask for your help parents. So these are the following oddity I noticed on my niece.

1. Her hand always bend backward, whenever she walk or sit on the floor, but not frequently.
2. One time when there is a erotic scene on a particular drama series on TV, of course the kissing scene or whatever but not too vulgar, she said "ohhh, good body, handsome"
3. Whenever we talk to here she just like kinda ignoring us, like she didn't hear anything
4. When my mom, my dad, or sister or anyone else scold her for doing wrong she just like smiling and also when my mom beat her, but not too harsh, she just smile
5. She keeps on saying bad words that we always told her not to
6. She taught my other niece younger than her vulgar actions, like bending forward with an ass open widely, i really hate it!!
7. One time she touches the dick of my nephew, one year younger than her, we scold her about that and she never did it, maybe not unless we're not around
8. She acts so weird when alone, like doing hand motions, talking to her self
9. She talk very much a lot in school but she keep a lil bit quite in home, she only talk a lot with my nephew

Now, as what I've read about ASPERGERS SYNDROME, it can affect the family member specially kids, I am worried about my nephew, because he had also started weird prohibited stuff or actions, like malicious actions and something like not obeying my parents.

Actually we have 5 kids here in our house, 3 of them are my niece and 1 is my nephew, 1 is my younger brother
1. Sheny 4 y.o my niece
2. Shyra 5 y.o my niece
3. JJ 8 y.o my nephew
4. Jelly 9 y.o my niece on my step daughter which i suspect had a ASPERGERS SYNDROME
5. LJ 11 y.o my younger brother

I'm just afraid that one day I will wake up all them have ASPERGERS SYNDROME please LORD GOD no...

Now my question is, is my niece Jelly have a ASPERGERS SYNDROME?

We can't afford to seek a psychiatrist or psychologist or whatever doctor it is, that's why I just rely on the net hoping that I could find answer to my question, and if ever she had, how are we able to cure it?

Please please please help us. Thank you very much!

With the information you gave I would say no.

If you want a more accurate answer, go through the DSM criteria for Asperger's Syndrome and explain point-by-point. You're reasoning is mostly vulgarities and withdrawal, which as ManErg said is probably a response to the environment she is in/has been in.

ramoel

I feel for you, it sounds like you are very worried about all your family members. That's a lot to take on. Please understand that Asperger's is not something you "catch" and describing it as a mental sickness is not really accurate. It has been noted that it appears to run in families but more like if a father has it his kids may have it.

To be blunt, it sounds to me like your niece has been sexually abused or at the least she has been exposed to sexual content that she is far from being old enough to understand. It does sound like she has some social and emotional issues but those are probably as likely to be caused by the very difficult conditions she has lived in as by having Asperger's or autism. If your family can't afford any type of counseling for her, hopefully living a stable household with people who care about her will help her overcome these difficulties.

Well, actually she came from a squatter area, I don't know exactly what's that place looks like coz I haven't been there but my sister does, she explains that the place where my niece jelly recently live was a crowded, dirty, noisy area. Their house was small, about a regular hotel room I guess coz my sister compares it to our 2nd living room. In my opinion she came from an environment full of influences, bad influences to be exact, her mother was my step sister and have rebel against our father before a long time ago, before when she's not yet a mother she do things which is prohibited, like smoking, taking prohibited drugs, drinking too much, her daughter (Jelly) even told us that her mom doesn't smoke only she drank, she was like a whore, but now I don't know what she's up to, but the last time when she was here, she always stay outside and went home drunk or sometimes too late, she speak sometimes bad words like "bwesit" or bulshit! "potang ina" or mother f****r! things like that. And Jelly's father was a seaman which is I don't know if it is true, Jelly had a younger step brother, does, it only means that her mother both have the eldest son and daughter since jelly and her younger brother both have different father but same mother. At first, I was thinking maybe Jelly was just influenced with some bad thoughts before when she was not with us, but I can't help noticing her ODDITY, she was different compared to other child outside. One night when I walk out of my room, I saw her sitting on the sofa in the middle of the night where eveyone hs already asleep, I don't know what's wrong with her, my mom always scold her and I hate it coz I don't want my mom to be angry almost everyday, and I am sad for Jelly coz I can't help her out since it was her fault, for how many times we told her not to this, not to do that, yes we understand that she was kid, and like any other kid she always like to have fun, but in all of my parent's grand children she's the only one to be look after with and they are all in all 5 KIDS in the house, who needs a great attention, preparing their stuff for school, their food, their clothes, their uniform, their assignments, projects, school activities, my mom always done this all and I don't want her to be more stressful, I don't want her to be angry coz she's old... she already had spend very much effort among me and my 2 older siblings, like she had quoted one time "back to the beginning again" in that simple phrase I realized that my mom, even though it's hard, still she want it to do for the sake of our health, our needs, our comfort. And when Jelly arrived it was like it's getting worse, I'm not blaming her coz she doesn't know what she's doing, but I want to stop her what she's doing, in terms of bad things. And for my part, because I'm still a college student, busy at school everyday, I tried to help, and the first time that I asked help here on WP, I thought I would find answers to my questions, rather I found something which really disappoint me. Sorry guyz, I'm not actually condemning my niece or ANYONE OF YOU that she has AS, I want to help her rather. By the way, thank you for answering that it's not AS, and I am not so familiar about AS.

I'll look more at your original question later, but I wonder if some of the harsh response is because you are posting in English instead of your native language, and are from a very different culture than the members here. Most of our posters ARE AS, and they are going to be blunt, and not very forgiving of cultural differences or language barrier issues. If you've read around this forum and think we can help your niece, we will try, but you do have to understand that it is impossible to make a diagnosis on a message board, for positive or negative. Your niece will have to meet with a local professional who understands autistic spectrum issues. If she is in school, the school may be able to look into it for you, but I have no idea how well informed schools in the Philippines are on autism, and even in the "best" areas quality of evaluation and level of understanding can vary a LOT.

Regardless, we talk about many different parenting methods here, some tailored to AS and some just plain normal parenting ideas, so feel free to read around around and try the techniques. If she responds well, it doesn't matter what the official diagnosis would be; it's all about finding solutions that work in your unique family.

From what you've said, she doesnt sound Asperger's to me but a child who has behaviour issues due to their past, she may be "different" to the other kids due to being more traumatised. The vulgar acts make me think she may of been sexually abused, or she could be doing them for attention seeking (she may actually NEED extra attention due to her past).

"One time when there is a erotic scene on a particular drama series on TV, of course the kissing scene or whatever but not too vulgar, she said "ohhh, good body, handsome".

Who knows what was going throu her head when she said that.. maybe she was imitating someone else eg her mother (normal children do that too, not just Asperger's kids). Or maybe someone who used to sexually abuse, used to call his body handsome and inside, she was being innerly sarcastic (I have a niece who's 9 and often says things in sarcasium).

Asperger's people as a whole tend to be less sexual than normal people... (thou some with Asperger's may be as sexual as normal people, many with Asperger's are Asexual) so far less likely to be into dirty acts. (thou maybe the penis touch was an innocent child curiousity act? but with her other things.. there does seem to be more going on in this area)

She seems a messed up girl.. maybe a school counsellor could help her?
........

Asperger's people I dont think act any more vulgar than normal people do.. they may do things like not dress as they see their bodies in an innocent way or not even be aware of their bodies but to actually purposely act vulgar, i dont think it would be happening any more than in normal people.

Im glad you are trying to learn something about Asperger's as you seen to have many myths going on with it in your thinking.

best luck with your niece

The hyper sexuality sounds more like pediatric bi polar disorder. She dosen't like someone with AS but then I have not met her and I am not a doctor (even doctors are very ignorat about AS and autism these days). I suspect sexual abuse as well. Perhaps a vist to a child phycologist is in order.

Now that I've had a chance to read your posts more carefully (which I didn't really the first time), I have some observations:

We're not fans here of using terms like whore. People with AS have spent their whole lives being judged as something they are not, and they don't like to see you doing something similar to anyone. You can say that the mother seemed to have a lot of men over, or similar factual information, but not use a term like whore. That isn't the way we like to talk here. We want to talk without judgment about any personality and without judgment about any lifestyle.

Asperger's Syndrome is not a mental illness. If your niece were to have it, it wouldn't be something that could spread to other family members, no matter how often they mimic certain behaviors. It would be something you would want to learn to adapt to and accommodate, for the biggest issue someone with AS has is the fact that other people completely fail to understand them. AS is a different way of being, and it will seem odd and different to the outside world, but many famous inventors and other highly successful people have been believed to have it, so we don't think of it as a "bad" thing. The only "bad" thing is the way other people tend to negatively judge those with the condition.

As I mentioned before, we cannot even begin to guess if your niece is AS. What we can ask is: what you would do with the information if it turns out she is AS? Why do you want to know? One or two of the things you mention might fit a child with AS; others suggest that her issues could be from something completely different, as others have suggested.

Either way, one thing that bothers me is all your talk about sexuality and vulgar actions. That has NOTHING to do with AS, and I'm not sure what made you think it might. Plus, it's really inappropriate for this forum, which is open to reading by anyone and everyone, regardless of age. Another thing that bothers me is the talk of beating the child; I don't believe in hitting, PERIOD, and it would be a totally ineffective method of discipline if the girl was AS. Finally, the person who should be looking into any special needs is your mother, as she is the one who has control over decisions on the child, but I can't help wondering if she is how you acquired the tendency towards what seem like misguided assumptions about "bad" and "good". It sounds like you are worried about your mom? That your niece's behaviors are too much stress for her? I would definitely encourage your mom to change her entire way of viewing the child, and try to figure out what is going on in the child's mind, without any assumptions, instead of trying to form her into a mold, which doesn't usually work well with any unique or troubled child.

Thanks, DW. I didn't reply before because I found the OP really alarming, worrying, etc ( children and sexual acts in the same paragraphs, and a rampant fear of people "catching" AS, etc ), but now, ( in the "shelter" of yours, and others, posts :lol ) I feel able to post the "other" thought that occurred to me on first reading the OP, which is that oddly enough the "hands bending backwards" might *well* be a sign of being on or near the autism spectrum, because I read somewhere a while back that there is a condition of the joints, "floppy" or "double" jointedness, loose tendons or something, which is slightly but significantly associated with AS.

And I have to say that the "quietly smiling" when being told off/yelled at rings an awful lot of bells with me. It is apparently infuriating, but it's a reaction that I used to have when being "told off"/yelled at, etc, It was involuntary, a sort of self-defensive thing, out of fear, like a kind of automatic misguided detachment or need to disconnect from things, and also as if it was embarrassing ... yes, that's it! ... the anger of the other person was embarrassing, because uncontrolled, because not "good manners", taboo in a way. And my "smile" was a sort of "grimacing"; I wouldn't be able to stop it, even when I began to understand that it just angered people even more. I might also sometimes suddenly feel "superior" to the angry one, because I hadn't lost it, but that wasn't the source of the smile. ( It just occurs to me that I haven't reacted like this in a long time and that this may be because in the last 10 years I have begun being able to express my anger, experience it as if not exactly a good thing certainly not the social disgrace, the totally shocking taboo thing, that I had been "taught" that it was by my parents, who almost never lost their temper, or if they did it was a gimlet-like red-hot fury in my father's eyes, with the occasional physical explosion, literally hitting my sister's and my heads together on one occasion, for example. Anger was "not allowed/not acceptable" ).

I have read that some people on the autism spectrum may well exhibit inappropriate sexual behaviour because of not understanding social customs, boundaries, etc. ( NB. The conjunction of children and explicitly described sexual acts in your post, Ramoel, was disturbing, and made me think that you were trolling ). I don't know what if any correlation there might be; I have been entirely celibate for the last 8 years, but in my twenties when I was virtually alcoholic and smoked dope a lot I had sex with strangers; I would say yes to anyone who asked me, but luckily for me not many dared ask. I had very explicit sexual fantasies from age 10/11 onwards, wrote the beginning of a sexual-fantasy for class when I was 10/11 but got such weird reactions for it that did not do so again, but my physical behaviour as a child was generally fairly "reserved"/careful, with very clear body space/boundaries. ... Though have just remembered hiding out somewhere with a slightly younger boy from next door to "examine" each other, when I was about 9, which did seem to shock the boy's slightly older brother, who was my age, when he accidentally found us doing so ).

The thing that most strikes me now, on reading your posts more calmly and clearly, ( first fright/shock over :lol ), is the extraordinarily different culture that you portray so vividly in them, in particular the different way in which child-rearing is seen. It's almost weird. You write so astonishingly directly and concretely and without "politeness" about your family and your experience, and it is like being catapulted into the flat/the rooms with you.

I think I can see that, as DW says, your mother treats her children and their behaviour according to social constructs which are increasingly out of fashion in the west; goodness and badness. It is very interesting. It sounds as if to her, as to most parents in the west just 50 years ago, a child is either good or naughty, there are no "excuses". If a child is disobedient or difficult it is because they are being "bad", and not because of chemicals or neurones or conditioning. It's really weird how different it is. Did the old methods of discipline and training "work"? Quite often I think, if the "disobedience" wasn't too awful/apparently unstoppable or too chronic, but it was also the cause of lots of suppressions, neuroses, etc, the mental illnesses of the first half of the 20th century and the last half of the 19th. But I think that chemicals, ( diet especially ), are causing more and more "unstoppable" difficulties.

If your niece is on or near the spectrum then routine and rhythm and reliable landmarks in her day should help, as far as her coping with/handling daily activities is concerned ( getting dressed, washed, etc ), but if she is anything like me, she may also become more "troublesome"/difficult, withdrawn and/or odd the more confident she feels, *if* she is not happy there, *if* she does not respect or like your mother. Does she feel hard done by? Does she feel resentful? Does she wish that she was back with her chaotic, alcoholic mother?

Are there services, support systems or organisations, etc where you are which could help your mother and Jelly if she was diagnosed AS?

i couldnt tell at first, and in fact still cant, whether your post is serious or not. especially considering that a few days before this one you posted asking if you yourself had aspergers. but i'll treat it as serious just in case.

i do see a few things in your nieces behavior that could be autistic traits.
- ignoring when being talked to. this is really common in autistics, its not that they actively ignore but they simply dont respond when people speak to them. its worse if they are involved intensely in some activity. my partner who is autistic describes it as often being like a processing delay. he hears and understands the words that i say, but doesnt interpret them as being directed towards him or requiring an answer. basically they go right through him.
- hand motions and talking to herself. you dont describe the hand motions but they could be a type of "stim", a self stimulatory action meant to sooth. lots of kids talk to themselves when playing, that in itself wouldnt concern me too much.
- smiling when in trouble. smiling or laughing inappropriately at times when they should be serious is actually not uncommon in autistics. my 4 yr old autistic son does this frequently, if he gets in trouble for something his first reaction is to smile or laugh. im not exactly sure why it happens, maybe the "angry face" of the person they are talking to strikes them as funny, maybe it goes back to being unable to read facial expressions, maybe its a nervous reaction to being in trouble. but i do know it happens to a lot of autistics. do a search here on WP and you will find threads on it.

like other posters, i dont see the overtly sexual behavior as autistic. its mostly likely she was exposed to that kind of behavior in her past, either through abuse or observing adult sexual behavior. any child, autistic or not, exposed to those kinds of things is likely to act it out and do so with other children her age such as your niece and nephew.

now, her not changing her behavior even after getting in trouble could be an autistic trait or just because its ingrained behavior. conventional discipline or the "because i said so" argument often doesnt work with autistics. an honest and rational discussion about the behavior, when its appropriate, when its not appropriate, other ways to express yourself, would work much better with an autistic person. you might try that regardless of whether she is or isnt autistic and see if it has any effect. of course she is 9 years old, so if she is acting this way just because thats what has been modeled for her the past 9 years, it may take a lot longer than the year or so shes been with you to change her behavior.