Is hoarding an AS trait?

Post Reply New Topic

My AS son and his (probably AS) wife collect stuff and asked for help organizing the new baby's room. This was the small second bedroom/study with bookcases against every wall and the computers. His sibs and I shifted stuff and packed away what we could to make room for the baby's furniture. Every surface in the entire apartment is so jammed with stuff it's hard to walk around so there was no way to add a crib etc. without moving things. They flinched every time even the smallest object was shifted and were wiped out by the end of the day.

The baby is now two weeks old. His mother's on maternity leave and training a nanny.

My son is now freaking out because, "The nanny moves things when she cleans." I assume this is an AS issue because he's truly frantic at the idea even though he knows it's inevitable something has to be shifted because things are piled up on every surface.

Does anyone have any suggestions of how to help them?

I don't know if it's a uniquely Aspergian trait. Hoarding is an issue though, otherwise there wouldn't be an entire TV show devoted to it.

If the hoarding gets in the way of the child's healthy development though, it may become a child protective services issue.

I think what happens with AS is that you take a personality trait which could or could not be an issue by itself, and make it more extreme. AS is really a condition of extremes, in my observation. So, what would have been an inclination to keep things combines with an AS need to have consistency and order, and maybe adds a layer of anxiety to it, and it is now more of an issue than it might have been otherwise.

NT here.

It's not a uniquely aspergian trait.

I personally collect things more when I am stressed. One of my family members did that as well when going through a divorce, and the amount of hoarding was pretty pathological.

The aspie I know, though? Oriental rugs, DVD's, movie posters, records, chairs--floor to ceiling.

Unbelievable amounts of hoarding. It's like a hobby with him.

(Not the stuff: the hoarding.)

As for how to help them:

rip the bandaid off. Go clean stuff out enough that "the nanny won't have to move things."

There is a good chance they won't get rid of things themselve, so you will have to.

According to the DSM, 'collecting' is an Aspergian trait, and I can attest to the fact that I can be an obsessive collector, but of specific groups of things that have personal meaning to me. Batman, Superman, Vampirella and Betty Boop memorabilia to name a few, but even then only specific stuff that appeals to me personally, not just anything with that character on it. Recorded music, hand carved tobacco pipes, yes - but old newspapers, tin cans, plastic bags, empty spools, balls of twine...no. For one thing, they have no use or meaning to me, for another, I'm a compulsive neat freak and couldn't abide the mess. My office is my 'nest' and is a bit overrun with toys, but the rest of my home is comfortable but well organized. Hoarding would create a clutter that would quickly drive me up the wall.

Hoarding is an OCD trait gone wild, that causes people to compulsively cling to objects with no distinction as to importance. You will notice similar behaviors in some older folk who grew up during the depression or shortly after - they hang on to everything 'just in case', because they have been conditioned to prepare against the proverbial rainy day. Compulsive hoarding is that natural primitive instinct to keep leftovers in case there's no food tomorrow, stuck in permanent overdrive.

Interesting, Willard.

I think it IS 'collecting' not hoarding.

Well organized, wall to ceiling piles of rugs and stacks of DVDs for my aspie....

whereas the NTs I know who hoard create unbelievable quagmires that look like Jim Henson movie sets (think the rubbish piles in "Dark Crystal").

Although it depends on the aspie...my aspie also can't clean house without a lot of time in which to do it, because he has some executive functioning issues, so he has neat collections and an occasional unholy mess in addition to the collections.

So, it depends on the aspie. You're lucky to be neat.

Perhaps of some interest:

"Hoarding: When Too Much 'Stuff' Causes Grief"
Fresh Air, 5 May 2010
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =126386317

I suspect that hoarding may very well be associated with AS (not in all cases, but from what I've seen, in many). My son certainly has tremendous difficulty letting go of things - even garbage, like the wrapping from gifts or toys etc. I've heard similar accounts from other AS parents.

Well, when I get involved in a project that involves gathering a bunch of stuff in one place for a specific purpose, I can create an apparent 'mess' that may sit in one spot until the project is finished, sometimes months. But when it comes to just tossing something across a chair, or leaving dishes scattered from room to room, I'm a firm believer in putting it away NOW, because otherwise I would procrastinate for weeks and it would spiral out of control very quickly.

Besides, I spend so much time in my own space, that I don't want to have to climb over stacks of garbage to get from room to room. And messes attract bugs, which give me mega-panic attacks and make me squeal like a little girl.

I'd post a longer response if I wasn't trying to hoard my words

His wife asked for help getting the baby's room ready--that made him anxious but he coped with that because she was the one asking and he could see that it was needed because there was no floor space to set up the crib and changing table.

But once these were in place his tolerance for change ended. It was tough to watch. He was a wreck and had to cut off any further help. So the book shelves are still jammed full of books and unrelated stuff. Fortunately, he adores the baby and sincerely wants the best for him.

The NPR article on hoarding was fascinating. And scary.

that is the absolute WORST thing you could do. do not go into their space uninvited and mess with their stuff. that creates huge unhealthy amounts of stress and anxiety, and probably quite a bit of anger at you too. whatever you decide to do, dont do this.

suggestions for helping them:
best thing is to let them control the changes. yes, it will most likely be agonizingly slow. they may need to look at and touch every object before its decided whether it goes or stays. they may get overwhelmed and have to stop. it may be helpful to find homes for things rather than throwing them away. if its books, donate to a library, housewares donate to a womens shelter, etc.

organization if more is needed. not just making sure things are organized, but utilizing shelves and storage systems to keep things out of the way of daily life. rent a self storage unit if possible to get stuff out of the house, altho this can then become a permanent extension of the house.

talk to the nanny. make sure she is aware that moving things produces a lot of anxiety. things need to be put back exactly where they were, facing the same way, with the same relation to other objects. its not easy to clean in this environment, but she should be able to be more careful if she is aware its causing anxiety.

and talk to your son and his wife. this is a baby they've got, that means its gonna walk soon, grab stuff, throw things on the floor, mouth it, and drool on it.... oh my, the things a baby can do to a shelf full of books! all those precious items around the house will likely be RUINED if left down within babys reach. they should start now on baby proofing not just for babys safety but for their own sanity.

(my suggestions come from growing up in a house with a hoarder mother, and my own struggles with ocpd tendencies to save everything for a rainy day.)

My AS son has a very large garage with an apartment above it. He lived in the apartment for years before he moved in with his wife. He still owns the building and decided to sell it a number of years ago. The realtor he spoke with refused to list it until he "cleaned it up so a buyer could see what they were buying." He ordered a large dumpster and asked his brother and me to help him. We were surprised but willing and duly showed up early on Saturday morning.

It is an enormous area full of a mixture of valuable objects and useless trash. It didn't take long to realize that he couldn't distinguish between the two. A lot of objects were ruined because an overhead pipe broke and soaked everything. They reeked of mold and obviously would never be usable. But each time we asked if a box of moldy books, could be put in the dumpster, he had to look at each clearly unusable book and mourn each. By the end of the day, the dumpster was full and he was exhausted but the space didn't look much better.

A year of so later, we repeated this at his request. He still owns the space. We think of it as the world's most expensive storage unit.

When I wrote this blog entry I wish I would have expanded on the subject http://lifeontheothersideofthewall.blog ... jects.html

I relate more to items than I do to people. That being so items remind me of people more so than people. With that being so throwing something out is like deleting that connection to a person or tossing out a memory.

I also associate objects with people and feel regret when one of these objects break so I can see how you feel. I think the difference between NT me and my AS son is that my dislike of clutter eventually convinces me that the pleasant association isn't worth tripping over something that no longer functions.

Just going from your decription of the apartment, this is something he is going to have to work on. It won't matter while the baby is small, but once it becomes mobile, this doesn't sound like a safe place for a baby to crawl and toddle around.