Why do people equate AS with tantrums?

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I don't understand this. My son has tantrums, but I don't think he has any more or less than any other child.

Because a lot of people like to confuse meltdowns with temper tantrums.

That's interesting. I am not being facetious, can you explain the difference? I am guessing one instance is more associated with sensory overload and the other is a battle of wills?

I think you've pretty much got it there, although I would add emotional overload as a cause of meltdowns as well as frustration and anxiety.

Thank you. That makes perfect sense. Now I have to ask another question.

Do most parents feel like they're kids melt down a lot?

I was involved with a group of parents whose children are AS. They all complained about the melt downs. I felt very out of place because I don't feel like my son melts down excessively. If he does, it usually can be remedied. It's also predictable - I can tell it's coming I just won't know when exactly or what will trigger it.

Maybe it's just something to commiserate about?

I would think that the majority of people with asperger's syndrome have experienced meltdowns or shutdowns. It would seem to those on this forum shutdowns are most common-- where they just shut down, their senses go away. Then there's the opposite, meltdowns, where you lash out verbally, physically.

I only experience the latter, but I'm sure someone who has them could explain shutdowns for you. Meltdowns have nothing to do with being manipulative like tantrums. During a meltdown someone might hurt themselves or others. I think meltdowns are usually sensory related, but I've done it also from being so frustrated I couldn't communicate something right or when a schedule changes.

Interesting again. I shut down too, but I always thought it to be the by-product of childhood trauma. I never associated it with AS.

I'm concerned about your description of a melt down though. That sounds more like blind rage. It's so important to learn to reign one's self in when you reach an overload. Sensory or emotional overload is never an adequate excuse to hurt anyone. Perhaps I've misunderstood?

My nine year old son has no meltdowns or tantrums whatsoever. He had almost none as a very young child, either. When he is overwhelmed he will become very anxious, and express his anxiety verbally or more commonly will just completely zone out. His body will be there, but his mind is somewhere else. It can be nearly impossible to hold his attention or to communicate much at these times.
Some people question if he is actually autistic, because of the lack of meltdowns or emotional outbursts. I think that it is so much easier for these kids to fall through the cracks, and not get diagnosed. He may not become overwhelmed in a hugely noticeable dramatic way, but he is completely overwhelmed nonetheless.

Well...no, it isn't. On the other hand, if you've not lived with frustration on this level your entire life, its easy to say that without really understanding.

We live in a world where the people around us are for the most part, speaking a language we can never quite get the hang of, they expect a whole array of things from us that we are only marginally capable of understanding, much less achieving, and when we try to explain that we can't comply with what's being demanded of us, we are met with impatience, ridicule, and usually the insistence that we are only being stubborn, difficult, insensitive to the needs of others, stupid and so on - the list is endless...its enough to make a person...well, angry. Frustrated. Eventually enraged. How long could you live in a world like that before you exploded in a hissy fit?

But, that having been said, if one doesn't learn to rein that frustration in at an early age, one is liable to spend a great deal of one's adult life in jail.

The downside is, when you internalize it, it eats you alive from the inside out. Is it any wonder so many with AS are chronically suicidally depressed?

I don't have any answers for the long range complications. I self medicate with alcohol. I don't know how everybody else with AS copes. But I do believe that not teaching a young Aspie to keep a lid on the meltdowns is doing them a tremendous disservice. They have to learn to control those outbursts, or they'll live to regret it.

The real trouble comes when the people around them, their family and SOs don't understand that there's a point where you have to do your part and back the f*ck off. Pushing someone who's already on the edge is a very bad method of getting cooperation. You can't provoke an already bad situation and then act like you have no responsibility for the outcome. If you poke an alligator with a stick, don't blame the alligator for what happens. You knew it was a f*cking alligator when you picked up the stick.

Poor guy. When it's really awful, I have gone to sleep. That's only happened three times in my life thank God. I wonder if that's what it feels like for him. It's something I didn't have control over either - very upsetting. I would struggle to stay with everyone because at the time it wasn't appropriate to take a nap.

Thanks for sharing this with me.

Eh, I guess my memory is short. I live a intentionally sheltered life.

Depression is no stranger. I've also been a screamer. I just never attacked people and was fearful of physical confrontations (I'm rather short). And while I spiral out of control during rages, I am aware I am spiraling. And sometimes I can pull out of them, it's not easy but I do try. So I don't see it as a black out kind of thing. I guess that was where I was stuck.

A lot of this improved dramatically after my son came into the picture. Prioritizing effectively can eliminate a lot of the upset. I was never able to say something wasn't worth the aggravation it caused.

I used to tell people not to "poke the bear" which I thought to be rather amusing. I would call people, leave it on their voice mails and hang up and laugh at myself. My husband and I have shortened "punch in the face" to PIF because I would say I wanted to do it so often. That also helped to diffuse a lot of my aggravation with people's general levels of stupidity and lack of simple courtesy.

I can't drink alcohol. The emotional hangovers are too severe. And it makes me ultra mean. I use other natural stuff because I don't like suffering pharmaddiction.

Meltdowns, and 'shutdowns' are very common amongst autistic people, and they are actually the same thing, but presented in two different ways. Think of them like the opposite of the same coin.

I have done a very thorough write up about meltdowns and shutdowns in the past, and I wind up having to re-post it every few months. But I have saved some time and written it up in book format. If you want to read it, just click on my web page in my signature. Or, you can just jump directly to the source at:

http://www.asdstuff.com/Strange%20Kid.pdf

The chapter about meltdowns/shutdowns is on page 36 if you want to jump to it. It really explains the whole process, why it happens, what to expect, etc.

It was written as a guide for parents, but it still applies to autistic adults, myself included. It is a really useful source of info.

What is the difference between a meltdown and a rage?

A meltdown isn't necessarily about anger - its more about frustration. At my worst moments, I'm okay if I'm not pressed, I can just go alone somewhere and stim it off.

I use an autoclave for sterilizing tools after they've been cleaned and I see metaphoric parallels in that - an autoclave is a steam pressure-cooker basically, much like your grandmother may have used for canning preserves and jellies. You tighten the clamps on the lid, and start applying heat. As the heat build ups, the water inside turns to steam and as the steam expands, the pressure gets tighter and hotter against the steel walls until eventually its packed so tight, it kills everything inside, in this case any dangerous bacteria. If you were to flip the clamps open while this was happening without first letting the steam out the valves - the lid would blast off like a bomb and to quote Dirty Harry "Take your head clean off." For me, stimming and time alone are the release valves.

Its when someone insists on trying to force a confrontation or some sort of communication when communication is impossible at that moment, that's when things can turn ugly. If you're having a discussion with an Autistic person that's becoming heated or emotional and you can see them visibly shutting down and becoming upset, if they walk away - let them go. Do not ever run after them shouting things like "Don't you walk away from me, we're going to have this out right now!" And for God's sake, don't grab them. You might as well have thrown the first punch. I'm not saying they'll intentionally strike you, but in the hysterical struggle to be left alone, you may get an elbow in the eye.

I think the best way to handle a child who's having control problems when their frustration overwhelms them is to give them a time out. Not an angry "Go to your room and think about that!" punishment, but an opportunity to sit quietly alone and stim, or read a book, or listen to music, or whatever calms them down. That's generally what my Mother did for me. I think the phrase was "I can't talk to you when you're like this, you just go to your room and calm down."

Oh, Brer Fox, don't throw me in dat briar patch.

On the other hand, going in my room and throwing things against the wall and kicking the furniture and smashing toys was not tolerated. Of course that was in the days when spankings were not considered torture and I knew very well what to expect when I crossed the line. My Dad did not pussyfoot around when it came to rule breakers. I can't tell you what would work today. A person in mid meltdown is not exactly rational, so attempts to reason with them may not be effective.

I was, okay stil am prone to blind rages. The last one happened when I was cyber bullied and when the zoo gave me a bunch of crap when I asked how I could interact with the meerkats (my special intrest). I had violent meltdowns as a result of being bullied by other kids but eventualy couldn't take it anymore and would go into a full blown rampage when the teachers punished me for it. If my parents didn't take me out to homeschool when they did, I probably would have pulled a Colombine. I was already having fantisies about taking my father's gun and shooting everyone in the school....as early as secound or third grade. When they wouldn't let me interact with the meerkats, I litteraly wanted to kill them (the zoo keepers, not the meerkats). I don't think I ever went into a rage that bad. It was awful. Never underestimate the power of a special intrest. I'm surprized I'm not in jail or something yet, perhaps maybe because my parents taught me to take my rage out with art and clay. Ever since I started listning to music like Eminem and Drowning Pool, I've been having less blind rages. I don't know why but a certian line in Eminem's "Still Don't Give a f**k" helps me vent and get over what's bothering me.

physical violence is possible in a meltdown, but its not guaranteed. thats going to depend on the person and the meltdown or its source. you cant equate meltdown with a rage for all people.

my son is not violent at all when he has a meltdown. his are actually very mild compared to many descriptions ive heard. his are usually frustration based, often centering around legos or other toys that he is having trouble getting to do exactly what he wants them to. usually it results in him throwing himself face down onto the floor stiff as a board and wailing. he sometimes does have issues with sensory things, wind from an open car window, sunlight, sound from an overly loud tv. those things we've learned to intervene with from experience so they rarely progress into a meltdown. his other trigger is people not doing what he wants them to; we've had a few meltdowns from his brothers refusing to play certain games or a certain way. people are like the toys in that respect, meltdowns come from the frustration of not being able to make happen what he wants to happen.

my SO doesnt have real meltdowns, but he does have episodes where he gets extremely anxious and stressed, and its almost always from social exposure. he reacts verbally and takes a mean or abusive tone or words, but he is never physically violent. i do see a physical reaction in him, its like he emanates energy when he is getting to that point. he walks faster, bites his wrists or fingers, and his movements become faster and jerkier. but he never becomes physical towards other people.