Newbie With Questions Re: 3 year old..

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Hi all, been browsing the forum, but I couldn't find many discussions about toddlers and symptoms...
I've read a lot online in general about symptoms of Aspergers. It is somewhat frustrating.......one of those things where it seems like in theory, almost anyone could possibly have it.
If my child knows his letters and numbers by age two, he might have Aspergers.......huh?

Anyway, my 3 year old son seems quite normal in all aspects, and very social and smart, but has one sort of 'tick' that we are a bit concerned about. He makes a fist with one hand and rubs it in circles inside his other hand, and sometimes makes a sort of stressed look on his face while doing it. Usually just a couple seconds at a time. Could be when he is watching a cartoon, or excited about something, etc.
So I don't think that has anything to do with hand flapping, but not positive. He does really like interacting with adults. He goes to daycare. He sometimes will play by himself, but often with others too. If anything, he is much more outgoing socially than other kids. We were at the Dr's office for a flu shot recently, and he hopped up onto a strangers lap (invited) and read her a picture book, and had the waiting room laughing.

Is the hand movement thing a great concern? He doesn't seem to have any real repetitive behaviors, other than dumping his cars out of a bag, lining some of them up. But he equally likes destroying his train table...

Anyway, guess I was mainly wondering if anyone else has toddlers with similar hand ticks, etc.
Thx, and sorry for the long post.

Welcome. I wouldn't be too concerned with the hand movement. It sounds like he's just stimming. What has your doctor said?

Our doctor is one of those '1 question per visit' doctors, and has not been easy to get her to take a close look at it. We do however have another appt. scheduled for a couple of weeks from now to ask about this only...

all humans have little ticks and stims, so dont automatically assume autism just from one small movement. if its only a few seconds and ocassionally, odds are it isnt anything to really worry about.

for clarification tho, in regards to social interaction, its not that unusual for autistic children to interact with adults in a more typical fashion. the social impairment is primarily in peer group relationships, so whether he plays with children his own age. typical children will have truly interactive play with their peers. an autistic child may socially isolate themselves away from the other children, play beside them but not with them, ignore the presence of other children, or only play with limited interaction. they may play with the same objects but not use eye contact or verbal communication.

my son is 4, and in a room with adults, he will have somewhat typical behavior, responding to adults and interacting with them. but put him in a room with other 4 yr olds, and he is a completely different child. he'll be the one off playing by himself, not looking at or talking to anyone, and acting like hes alone in the room.

Thanks for the replies.
Of course when I look up stimming, I immediately get tons of hits for autism and Aspergers...

I -think- he interacts with peers well. As for daycare, it's hard to say, I need to question the workers there a bit more specifically I think. There are times when I pick him up at the end of the day that he is either by himself, or with a group but not necessarily talking to them.
But for example, if I take him to a playground/park, he loves to run around with the other kids his age, chase them, have them chase him.
One other 'stim' or behavior, at night mostly, he touches his privates (uh, like laying on his belly and humping...)....sorry, I feel stupid mentioning it, but it is the one other thing he does. He kind of laughs about it if we ask him to stop, tell him 'please don't hurt your p*nis......He'll often do that for several minutes and then fall asleep.

Hopefully we are worrying about nothing. We did actually ask the Dr about the touching the privates thing, and she seemed to think it was no big deal, as long as he understood that he was to only do it at bedtime in his room......................

Your son sounds like a typical two year old...so, I wouldn't worry.

There are some excellent books on raising children on the market that addresses developmental milestones and other important child care issues you may wish to read. Why not visit your local bookstore and look around at the various books written about raising children and look around at the titles of these books...and if you don't want to buy these books, write down the titles/authors and have your local library obtain them for you...for free.

3 yo is a little early to judge social interactions. At 3, even many neuro-typical kids are just really getting started on interactive play so I would suggest you "stay tuned". As the school year progresses, if you see that the other children in the class are tending more toward interactive play and he is still just playing "beside" the other kids then it is worth noting and maybe taking a harder look at.

Does it seem like it could be a seizure? I am under the theory of, if it seems 'off' it probably is. Trust your instincts.

I don't -think- it is. It seems too controlled by him, sometimes just doing it for a split second without any facial expressions, sometimes just half doing it, and stops if you distract him..

We don't have a ton information on toddlers for the simple fact that Aspergers can be very difficult to diagnose in kids that age. Many of our kids made all the important milestones. I knew my son was "different," but every child is different, so it wasn't conclusive. Without a language delay or other item of specific concern (which in my mind, without having seen it, one tick or stim or hand flap really isn't), it just doesn't really enter the picture. So ... I really wouldn't worry. Keep filing away notes in your mind, and if / when your child enters preschool or K and more issues show up, then you can pull out the notes and see if something further should be pursued.

My son was diagnosed at age 7 and, based on his pattern of development, I think it would have been impossible to do accurately before that.

The most important gift any parent gives to a 3 year old is to try to see the world through their eyes, and to truly understand the one child. Don't let any worries keep you from giving that gift.

Meanwhile, the rest is some advice I posted in another thread to a mom with a young child, that I think works whatever neurology it turns out your child has:

At this point in time, besides loving your child and adapting his world to his needs as you see them, the only other thing I would recommend is being aware of some of the differences in how AS children react v. NT children, just in case any of it turns out to apply. That information will allow you to experiment a bit when it seems necessary, and not get stuck dealing with a sense of failure when standard parenting techniques just don't work (which they often don't with AS children).

First would be to note that not all sensory issues are obvious. My son was a sensory seeker, always drawn to people and stimulation. But, it turns out, it wasn't all that good for him. After a fun busy day, I would usually notice an increase in negative behaviors. So, I had to learn to regulate it a bit, regardless of how well things seemed to be going. A common issue with little ones is trouble with teeth brushing, in that it really hurts, so just try to be aware and sensitive to it. Another one can be fear of toilets (the flush is scary), which can make potty training ... interesting.

Second would be to note that AS children often need to move to self-calm. Be careful of how strongly you try to discipline behaviors just because they are annoying, or odd. There could be a purpose to those behaviors.

Third would be to understand that not all tantrums are tantrums. I think ALL 2 year olds can meltdown, a state in which they really no longer have control over themselves, but this is especially acute with AS kids, and AS kids don't just outgrow it. Do your best to identify what may lead up to meltdowns, and then avoid those triggers. That works if your child is AS or NT.

Fourth would be that say what you mean and mean what you say is triply important with AS kids. They are very literal and precise in their use of language, and cannot take a rule from situation A and apply it to situation B. At this age you probably are already well aware of how precise you need to be speaking to your toddler; I think that is true of most toddlers. But an AS child will take this to a more extreme point, and won't, again, grow out of it. So, Mostly ... never assume that your child "must" understand an instruction or "must" be capable of something just because other kids seem to understand and be capable, or just because he seems so smart it seems impossible that he doesn't get this one basic thing. He honestly, and truly, may not get it. And never, ever, change the rules mid game; I still think about this time my son was a toddler, when we said we were going to get ice cream and then decided we really should eat some healthier food first ... he couldn't behave in the restaurant at all and we left without the ice cream, he had a horrible meltdown, and I know now that it was such a big mistake - our mistake. So, avoiding that sort of thing may be a nice little gift to yourself, even if your son turns out to be a totally normal just shy child.

I guess the other thing to know about AS is that AS kids can and do shut down parts of themselves at very early ages, as a self-defense mechanism. My son has described doing this to me; he remembers those conscious decisions that actually become integrated into his subconscious. And I observed him start to do it in a more extreme form in his early school years. He was getting frustrated and I could literally see him start to give up, shut down, and turn off. Anything that avoids these triggers is important; you don't want your child making a retreat he cannot come back from. But remember that those retreats are reactionary and self-defensive. If your child isn't overloaded by the world or situations, he shouldn't need to make them. The problem, of course, being that AS kids can be severely overloaded by things we don't even see or notice, which is why tuning into your child is so overriding to me, at that young age.

Mostly, enjoy your child for who he is, as he is, for a few more years. If you get overly focused on if he is AS or not, you take away precious time and attention. Move the possibility to the back of your head, and when things come up that puzzle you, maybe pull it out and see if it helps. But, otherwise, free yourself of the need to figure it all out.

My 5 yr old son was diagnosed at 2.5 yrs of age, and it was pretty obvious that something was going on with him. He had repetitive and strange language patterns, delayed physical milestones, hand flapping,obsessive interests and a total lack of interest in his peers. He still does not play with other children at 5 yrs of age.

Of course we can't diagnose here, but I don't think your son's hand motion is that much to worry about. If he has other signs of autism going on, maybe, but from what you describe, I am not so sure.

Thanks everyone for the replies, I appreciate it!

The child is smart, talks, and has friends, and your worried about his odd hand action?! You need some new 'worries'.

I cared for a young boy with "silent seizures" and this is kinda what it sounds like - they were harmless but he would space out for anywhere from 10 seconds to a minute. His hands might move like he was playing a video game - even though he wasn't - sometimes he would chew but had nothing in his mouth (never hurt himself though). They were pretty harmless and he never realized he was having them and wouldn't remember me talking to him when he was "out" I had to give him medication to limit them (don't remember what it was) because he was older and they were more worried about it happening while he was riding a bike and getting hurt. He's older now and doesn't problems anymore (he has a driver's license and all) so it seems he could have grown out of them or they are well controlled by his medicine. It couldn't hurt mentioning it to his doctor.

Ach, I was in a foul mood when I posted that, pls ignore. Anyway your boy sounds a great wee kid.

No worries, it was actually a bit reassuring when I read it...

But we are still quite concerned.......Hoping his doctor will have someone evaluate him. He is very happy, -very- smart, very affectionate, no problems with eye contact or emotion.............
But does not follow direction (seems to pretend not to hear you a lot), sometimes gets very upset when asked to do something he doesn't want (like leave a store), and seems to really be stimming a lot. I guess we notice more now that it is in our minds. I don't see arm/hand flapping, but a lot of what I described above with his fist, all throughout the day, saw him walk on his tip toes once in a while, likes to be right in front of the TV (inches).
He also tends to yell/sing gibberish a lot (even though he has a very good vocabulary, ahead of others at his age) and in general is -very- hyper.
He seems to want to play with other kids sometimes, but sometimes hits them (grabs their face or slaps) for no real reason.

Sometimes I just wonder if he is very hyper, very smart, and happens to stim a lot.
When I pick him up from daycare, unlike the other kids that are fairly quite while getting ready to go, my little 3 year old looks back at everyone and starts yelling goodbye to everyone of them, name by name, including the four teachers. That doesn't strike me as someone with autism or Aspergers. And the affection, the eye contact, the wanting to show/share things with us.

So I just don't get the hyper, hitting, heavy stimming, and I guess he does sometimes play by himself when inside at daycare (but runs with the other kids outside).

Sorry again for being run on, we are very stressed about it.