Preschool and child not mixing

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My 4 yr old has been through being assessed and they said that he is on the spectrum but that they're holding off with an official diagnosis until after he goes to preschool. So I started him in preschool last week, just twice a week for 3 hours each session, and it's made everything so much worse. He was doing good in not having meltdowns and now he's having meltdown after meltdown, everything is setting him off, and today was supposed to be his 4th day, but he said he didn't want to go and was very distressed about it. He wouldn't talk about it, wouldn't tell me what was making him upset... I did finally get him to tell me that he didn't want to go because "there are people still there." And I was able to get him to tell me that the teacher is nice and not mean, so I think it's the other kids.

This preschool is a city run one, so it has a student/teacher ratio of 20:1 or so (I didn't actually count the number of kids, but there are a lot). There is no teacher aide, just one teacher for the kids, so I'm thinking it's probably not the best place for a kid like mine who gets overwhelmed by a lot of voices at once... but one of the problems we have is that we don't have the money for one of those fancy private schools where the ratio is 6:1, and my husband works in the school district and says IEPs are rarely followed. Or are rarely able to be followed, considering our district is the 12th in the country for being absolute cheapskates... He gets sent students that need 1 on 1 work while he has a class of 32.

I have no idea what to do with my kids... My husband kind of wants to keep making the eldest go to this preschool, but if it continues to stress him out this badly, I'm not sure how we're going to make kindergarten work.

I'm so sorry to hear that. May I ask why they didn't want to give a formal diagnosis? I ask because a formal diagnosis is one of the things that can typically get a public school moving on an IEP, and this age is so critical for intervention.

You could ask to visit the preschool and then report what you observe to his doctor. Recording him in the classroom would be even better, but the school might not allow that.

Because they said he's really social and I guess they're not sure where he is on the spectrum? He was 3 when we got the assessment done but I wanted to wait until he was potty trained to put him in the preschool (as that's their requirement) and they wanted to know how he is with other kids.


They allow a five minute or so view time... and I have the 2 yr old to watch and he's rather disruptive so that doesn't really work very well.

However, before the class begins, I have watched him and he goes straight for the puzzles, and tends to play by himself. The first day, he was so engrossed in the puzzle that he didn't even look at me when I told him I was leaving, just said "Bye" and that was that. The second day, he started to freak out because he wanted to go on the playground instead of stay in the room, but we were able to distract him, and he went back to the puzzle. The third day he actually started playing with some of the other toys (but still not with the other kids).
Every time I've picked him up he's been coloring, making his noises, and not really paying attention to anyone else, though on the second day he was sort of talking to another kid.

I'm not entirely sure if this is enough information to bring to the specialist, but the teacher hasn't been the most helpful. I think she's under the impression I'm a diagnosis seeker? I told her he was being assessed and at first I thought she was maybe just used to dealing with special kids, but now I'm thinking she was being dismissive, especially as she kept trying to reassure me that things he was doing were normal. I know he can seem "normal" to people who aren't around him constantly, but I know that he acts differently at home, or with people he's comfortable with. With strangers, he's a lot more reserved and has a big willingness to please, and that might be stressing him out along with the other kids.

I've been asking him this morning if he wants to go to school and he just emphatically says no. He was able to tell me today that he's afraid, but that's as far as it goes... :/ I'm going to take him back on Tuesday, just to talk to the teacher at least, see if we can't figure out what it is.

Have you looked at church-run preschools? In my area, the ones that offer a half-day option can be a real bargain, and they focus on developmental rather than academic development, so lots of messy paint instead of drilling letters. We found one that was 12:1 -- and better yet, it was actually 12 kids in the room with 1 teacher, not 24 and 2. It was a much better environment for DS.

You might see if you could arrange for someone from the assessment center to go do and observation of your son at the preschool. There was a free program here run by the YMCA that sent a therapist to observe my son and give the teacher suggestions for working with him. He wrote a report I was able to take to his diagnostic appt.

I don't think they want to diagnose children until they utterly fail to manage the demands of normal preschool and school. Some people may have a different experience, but that's what I think.

Basically it seems to me that IEPs are for the teachers, done because they cannot adequately teach or manage a child without the extra support.

How do you feel about the schedule? Three hours twice a week seems like it might be unsettling to me. If there are no other options for preschool and this does not work for your child, perhaps he would do better with parent-and-me activities? There are often some low cost ones through community centers, free ones at the library etc. That would allow you to describe how he is with other children and give him a chance to be around children in a way he might be more comfortable with. There isn't much good that comes from his being put into a large group situation without a parent before he is ready.

I think 20 kids is too big a class for your kid. I don't know much about California, but in NYC they have DOE run CPSE (committee for preschool special education) schools for kids in preschool with IEP's. They have smaller classes and smaller adult/ child ratios. You do not need a formal diagnosis, just a need for services. My son went to one of these preschools for free. He did not have a diagnosis. He was evaluated by CPSE and they determined he had social/ emotional delays, and a motor delay. Other people, though, had their kids evaluated privately, then submitted the report to CPSE. I would contact the doctor who evaluated your child and explain the situation, then ask them how to proceed. It sounds like your child needs a calmer, more supportive environment.

The teacher may just be dismissing it as separation anxiety and feel it is too early in the year to be concerned, but you know your child best. My son is also very social, but does not understand how to socialize in the way that typical kids do. That quality also threw some people off. He was not formally diagnosed until later when his social differences became more developmentally noticeable. The CPSE school had also failed to notice that he had a pragmatic speech delay, since he was so verbal and it is still somewhat normal for 4 year olds to not do conversations well.

From the teacher's point of view, it is perfectly normal for children to have trouble transitioning to preschool. And they know that whatever stress you feel transmits itself to the child and makes it all much more difficult. So, they are trained to calm everyone.

But. One of my biggest regrets is not having pulled my son from his preschool. Yes, he learned to be OK there, but it never stopped being an extremely stressful experience for him and, honestly, I think it did him more harm than good over the long run.

It is so hard to know this far into it what it is: simply normal adjustment period, or evidence of this being the wrong place.

I am going to guess the later, however, because of the size of the class.

Kindergarten is still a year (or two) away and, realistically, your child won't be in the same developmental place then that he is now. You can't predict his ability to adjust then by his difficult with adjusting now. Which means that I see no reason to force the issue if you become certain this truly is an inappropriate placement. Pushing transitions onto a child who isn't quite ready is not, in my experience, an effective policy for very young ASD children, as it tends to lead to two steps back for each one forward, instead of the opposite.

Oh my, so many of my emotions from back then are flooding back. I remember being so worried about rewarding my son's being difficult by giving him what he wanted. And I remember being so worried about losing the childcare. And I had no way to know if the problems were my son being difficult or if he truly was in the wrong place. I thought it was the later, but I doubted myself. Hindsight being twenty twenty, I now know it really, truly was the wrong place, and I wish I had pulled him. Kindergarten was a breeze; somehow, things that bothered him at the preschool never bothered him in kindergarten. You just never know.

I wish you luck with what I know is a very difficult decision.

Thank you for the replies. It is hard to tell right now what it is, but I've been looking into other preschools. Unfortunately, we're currently broke, we can't afford any of these other places that want a minimum of $75 per month (plus a $70 fee). The average price in this area is over $100 per month, some going over $100 per week, for part time.

My mom has suggested I participate in this MOPS group we have that meets twice a month and take my kids to Sunday school as well, since we know they like it there. It would end up being about 7 days in a month and the program he's in now is 8 days, so it's not much of a difference, just in the hours (church runs about 1.5 hours) which might be better for him.

I'm going to be taking him back tomorrow, just to talk to the teacher, and see what she says. I need to call the specialist up as well.

The 20:1 ratio does not seem good for 4 year olds. Maybe this is different as it's just a few hours but 10:1 is more standard for what I've read is good practice for this age for children without special needs.

Yeah, I agree. I think it's just different because it's run by Parks and Rec, aka the government, and that's also why it's cheaper than the other options ($50/month)
(we can't do the free preschool because we're not that broke, lol, but I have to wonder what their ratio is)

If you're worried your son won't be academically prepared for kindergarten if he doesn't go to pre-school, I wouldn't worry. Neither of my kids (one ASD, one NT) went to pre-school. My ASD son is ahead of his grade in reading and math, and my daughter scored a 92 out of 100 on her kindergarten readiness test. I didn't send them to pre-school because our income is just above the cutoff for the program the school district offers, and the only other options around here are run by churches. Personally, (and I know this is a minority view) I think pre-school is overrated.

I would not send my child just to go, unless i was free to go with and they would let me, this just does not sound like it is or can meet your child's needs.

If it were me in this situation I would find an alternative environment to the 20:1 ratio, my concern is that he is not ready for this type of setting. I don't believe that the environment is suitable for his needs, even very social children would struggle when settling into a adult:child ratio this large.

Its like any learning experience. If a child is capable of completing an eight piece jigsaw, facilitating them to become competent/develop confidence at this level (until they are ready to move onto a ten/twelve piece) will lay a solid foundation for more complex puzzle solving problems.
Encouraging them to complete a sixteen piece jigsaw instead, will provide them with repeated feelings of failure/other negative associations until (if) they eventually succeed.
You are in control of your child's first experience of an educational setting, a positive experience will lay a good foundation.

I wasn't planning on keeping him in the large class, no worries there. I just want to find something that will work for him.

I took him today to just talk to the teacher before the other kids arrived (if he didn't want to go in, I was going to leave him with my grandma, but he said he would go talk to her). When we pulled into the parking lot, though, he started having a lot of anxiety and ended up with diarrhea... He still wanted to talk to the teacher though, so we went in and I asked him if he wanted to tell her what was wrong, and he did.

She was very helpful and understanding, and suggested trying her Mon-Wed class that only has 9 kids in it. If that doesn't work, we can try the morning class that is designed for me to stay with the kids (and this way, his brother can be with him as well). I won't force him into something that stresses him to the point of getting sick. No freaking way. But I do want to find a preschool setting that works for him. Makes me wish we were rich and we could afford the fancy places.

That's just how autistic kids are, it's really rough when there young and there's no getting around that.

Maybe you should skip preschool or put him in a private school for people with autism which will help him adjust a bit more. You of course have the option of skipping preschool, but if you want your child to be well adjusted in elementary school I recommend you put him in various social situations to help him.

I had difficulties in preschool and at the time I wished I didn't go there. I hated the teachers (and told them that), I sat in a corner chewing on my shirt, I stole things from my preschool on more than one occasion. I had to stay in preschool when I was 4 years old to adjust more while the rest of my family went to school in kindergarten. I wasn't quite ready in senior kindergarten but I had to go anyways.