my second child....wondering

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I still don't have the official answer on my 15 yr old ( that comes on the 8th). But ..as we all do... I find myself considering my other two children...at least for now my second. No. 3 is still too little to tell.

Second child is 12 and has had an ADHD diagnosis since age 6. He does very well on concerta and doesn't draw any particular attention in school. He's an honor student who prefers as little attention as possible, most of the time.
The thing is, in many ways, he probably raises (or should have) more autism red flags than the oldest.

--The most obvious is the sensory stuff and stimming. Oldest doesn't really have issues here, that we've seen. But No. 2 liked to spin as a younger child. Now he paces, runs in circles, flaps. He also makes a lot of noise - including repeating movie dialog to himself, humming repetetive tunes, etc. Much of this disappears when concerta is active, but he does still like to pace and go in circles even on meds. The vocalizing lessens a lot but doesn't disappear. He hated bright light as a baby, hated wind. Now he doesn't care but won't wear a coat in even the coldest weather because it 'bugs him'. And he doesn't seem to be feeling the cold anyway.
--He has very little eye contact. Its noticeable. My pediatrician would like to refer for eval based on this alone.
--He's also got some skill splintering - he rode a two wheeler at 4 but could not tie his shoes until 10. His handwriting is abominable but he could construct tiny lego things at 3. Superb balance but can't kick/hit/catch a ball for anything. He can't seem to eat neatly either or button pants.
-- he's not very social. He is the kid- as I've seen recently described here by others- who spent recess circling the payground alone talking to himself. He's happy with that and I never considered it a real problem since he's content. He's always been profoundly shy of people he doesn't know well, overwhelmed by noise and crowds and avoidant of situations with lots of people. He spends a lot of time in his own little world. Still, he usually has a friend or two and even if he's not Mr. Popular he's usually accepted because he's extremely funny in a Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes) kind of way. (contrast with oldest who is usually strongly disliked by the majority)
--he has obsessive interests but they're not particularly idiosyncratic. (currently Super Smash Bros Brawl and anything Pokemon). He does watch the same tv shows over and over and over.

Here's the sticking point- I feel like he actually 'gets' people fairly well. I don't know how to classify his 'reciprocity'...he can be quite responsive, but mostly he's just not interested or motivated. He certainly gets humor, voice tone, etc. quite well (oldest struggles with this). In a nutshell, I think he "gets it" but just doesn't much care. Whereas oldest appears to have a primary deficit of "getting it"... if that makes sense.

So..extremely introverted ADHD kid with sensory issues? or possibly aspie? Maybe they are both aspies and being a boy, he gets a bigger pass on the social nuance piece..?

how do you pick out the differences here? does it matter? Re: the lable, at least for him, AS might get him some writing help at school. Currently the ADHD diagnosis provides nothing.

curious to hear your thoughts, o wise ones...

actually now that I wrote that, wonder if this is somehow an NVLD-ish profile vs a non-NVLD profile while both could still be on the spectrum somewhere....

much of what you discribe reminds me of me when i was a kid. I've always had terrible motor skills, i didn't learn to tie my shoes untill i was 11. Also spending recess cykling the playground. (It wasn't so much that the kids didn't interest me, it was more like i saw them like strange creatures that made no sense to me.) He maybe has AS, maybe not. It may be a good idea to try to find out. Then you'll know for sure.

to me, those traits do sound like what you find with autism. the language issues you note, specifically the scripting or repeating dialogue, make me think classic autism rather than asperger's. when you talk about his reciprocity and not seeming to care or being motivated, is this in regards to conversation with others? can he carry on an age appropriate conversation with someone else, either as the initiator or just in sustaining the conversation?

you should be able to request an evaluation at school if you are interested in getting him services. he doesnt need specifically an autism educational diagnosis for occupational therapy to help with the writing. but he would need to be evaluated and for them to see there is an issue affecting his schooling.

a lot of people will tell you to get the diagnosis if he needs services. i completely agree with that, however i am also all for diagnosis for self awareness. there is a great deal of value in understanding your own mind and body, understanding how it differentiates from others. knowing how you differ can make it easier to accept the differences, instead of going through life thinking that either you are crazy, or the world around you is.

re: the repeating dialog... I asked about this specifically when his adhd diagnosis was made. They felt it was something he does because it's stimulating, not actually scripting. I agree, I think. He never used it as a communication method. It's more that he's so stimuated by the movie or whatever and he's reliving it, or like he's got a line stuck in his head (as we all do with music) and just lacks the filter/impulse control not to say it out loud. Repeatedly. I think there is a distinction there, between that and scripting...though .I'm not sure I've expressed it clearly... Of course, those people are the same idiots who thought my daughter couldn't have AS because she makes eye contact and likes travel.

He has no language delay...on the contrary, he was a precocious talker.

re- reciprocity... I feel like he can tell when something has gone too far, or when he's talked too long, or why I'm annoyed, etc. He might not stop what he's doing, but he definitely is picking up the signals. Whereas I think my oldest really struggles with these signals which really says autism to me... (now, in retrospect I see this anyway). I think he's capable of a reciprocal conversation. He's just rarely interested in really having one about a subject not of his choosing. I don't know if that's so unusual..I mean, I certainly don't want to hear one more thing about my sister in law's new business venture either. I'm just better at politely pretending and having the conversation. He *can* but doesn't really see why he should. I guess I don't really know how to tease out what's normal in terms of reciprocity in a taciturn tweeny boy.

Not that I have any idea what passes for 'normal' either. ...we just don't do that around here.