Screaming

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Hi I should probably introduce myself in the intro's bit, but I'll do that another time when I'm not so tired (youngest is teething so I have very little sleep).

My daughter (4 in February) has recently seen a speech and language therapist as she has had delayed speech and whereas she's catching up now, her speech is still a little odd, plus she repeats a lot of what she hears, doesn't socialise verbally (but does non-verbally) etc etc. The therapist told me she wanted Deborah assessed further at our local hospital for developmental issues and told our gp she thought D is somewhere on the autistic spectrum. I only found this out last week, when I was chasing up the speech and language appt follow-up at the gp as we haven't yet heard anything from the hospital. I feel myself Deborah could be either high functioning autistic or aspergers as I've checked loads of stuff and she fits most of the criteria . There's a chance my father may have had aspergers too. That's the background information.

My question is - she really is a very loud little girl. She has frequent meltdowns when she screams and screams and I don't know what to do. I try to keep her organised, fed, not tired etc, but it doesn't always work and we can often have 4 or 5 bouts of screaming a day. Recently I've been treating it like a toddler tantrum and asking her to go in the kitchen and scream there, until she's ready to come back, but it actually feels quite cruel to do that, plus it doesn't necessarily stop the screaming. So what should I be doing? I am permanently shattered with number 2 and I do snap occasionally after half an hour of screaming and scream back which must be terrifying for her. I know I need to just take a breath and step back, but I'm so wound up waiting for a diagnosis (I phoned the hospital today and found out D isn't even in the system, after which we have a 3 month wait for an appt), and so worried I am doing the wrong thing and so worried about D (which I think is silly as she will be fine, I'm just being an over protective mum) that it really does all get too much.

Also tips on when she's decided she has to do something, I haven't cottoned quick enough, and then she is in a complete meltdown. The other day it was because she wanted to turn the dish washer on, I didn't realise and did it, by which time she was unable to speak as she was screaming so much. I only realised afterwards, once I'd fed her and could think, and worked out what the trigger was.

Thank you.

ps I'm not condoning my behaviour at all.

Is she in control of herself when she's screaming, or not? I know my 3 year old boy has always been very loud. He's also speech delayed, and in the past has been very bad about screaming/yelling when he doesn't get his way. In his case, however, it doesn't typically last for that long. He's never out of control of himself, he's just mad and very vocal about it. Now that his speech is catching up more and more, he's gotten MUCH better about telling me what I did that he wanted to do .

We took a pretty strict approach with him and screaming/yelling (this was after a while, when we realized we really needed to help him with this). We used a nearby timeout spot, and would immediately put him in there if he screamed inappropriately. No warnings. It wasn't done meanly, and I was nearby...after about 1 min I'd go over and talk with him. It worked for HIM because he would calm down and not escalate, but I'm sure it wouldn't work for every child. I would tell him that I knew he was upset about xxx but that he couldn't scream at me/his sister/daddy/whoever. I encouraged him to use his words. His preschool did the same thing with him...removing him from the situation if he was yelling.

Just for the record, I don't have any sort of diagnosis on my son and am not sure I'll have him evaluated. He definitely has some traits (nothing too red flag) and may be very high-functioning, but is excelling at school for now, so I don't see a point in pursuing anything.

Can you give any context to the screaming?

Is she screaming and crying?
Is she screaming and lashing out? Sort of like a tantrum?
Is she screaming and holding her hands over her ears, or closing her eyes? Like she is in pain?
Is she screaming something at you like she is trying to communicate?
Is she screaming at anything or anyone in particular?
Does it seem like she may just be 'singing' to herself very loudly? Something like LALA LALA LALA LA LA!! !

It is hard to give any advice if the only thing mentioned is that she is screaming.

So she wanted the dishwasher on. Screaming from wanting something is a tantrum, unless it was resulting from her not being able to ask in verbal words and getting frustrated over the speech barrier.

Do you have picture cards, PECS?

Thanks for the replies. They really made me think about exactly what is was I was trying to get across and how difficult that was for as an adult and therefore more so for Deborah.

Actually, most of the time when she is screaming, she is just screaming. Tears may come after a while, but most of the time it is just screaming. Now she is a little more verbal there may be some words mixed in there, so I'm thinking it's frustration screaming as she can't get her words out. Plus it's sometimes due to me not being specific enough - ie with the dishwasher I'd said "Lets put the dishwasher on" to her younger brother. Deborah overheard but by the time she came into the kitchen to help, we'd already moved onto the next thing so she probably felt excluded, frustrated she hadn't got there before and also because she does like to help and do what I do, She is very independent and feisty which will be fabulous when she is older, just something I need to get along with now. The main reason which we found out later on last night was that she was actually quite poorly, and was sick 4 times last night. Her behaviour (and mine) always takes a dip just before and after she is ill.

Picture cards / PECS - no dont have them. I spoke to our local autistic society today and they've advised a picture led routine - would picture cards be similar? What are PECS?

I do want a diagnosis as I feel she is really quite bright but we've not managed to get through to this just yet. She does stuff that is intuitively bright in terms of visual recognition/pattern matching that sort of thing, sings in perfect pitch but nothing more formal. Nor should she at 3 1/2, but I feel we all the need the support to work out the best way of educating her. She has just started to enjoy her pre school but for the 1st 3 months she went from being a child with a language delay and some social issues and the occasional tantrum, to much more noticeable social issues, slightly improved language and almost daily tantrums. So obviously very stressed. Now the pre school knows there is an issue they are much more sympathetic and much easier to deal with it. They are still too keen on pushing though, based on their experiences with a child in the school itself with Aspergers who responds to that. Great for that particular child, but she is not mine, Deborah does not respond to that and I need to make those decisions not the pre school. If it wasn't for the fact that Deborah was obviously enjoying the pre school and making friends (their mothers tell me) then she would no longer be attending. Now I'm quite pleased with their approach, having a semi official diagnosis gives us all the same direction to work in, but myself and husband are having a meeting with the nursery teacher on Friday to clarify a few points.

On the plus side, this post and my chat with the autism society family co ordinator today did really clarify things for me so I coped to day, no shouting.

It sounds like she is just extremely frustrated because she is having trouble communicating. I think that in time, with lots of speech therapy, she will learn to use words. You will have to become very in tune with her and try to remind her to "use her words" when she is upset or frustrated. Try to remain as calm as you can when you are interacting with her. When she screams, you can put your finger over your lips and shake your head no and help her to find the words for what she is trying to get across. If the screaming is too much for you, and you need a break, as long as she is safe, maybe you can go into another room for a brief moment to cool down.

Now that you know that she probably is on the spectrum, you will be able to learn more techniques to communicate with her better. I don't know if this will work for her or not, but sometimes when my son is really upset, I just give him a big bear hug and hold him and help him to calm down. Many children on the spectrum seem to respond well to the "deep pressure" that they receive from hugs.

I am glad you found Wrong Planet. Please feel free to ask any questions that you have. BTW, that is a great sign that she is so independent and imitating you doing things. That is a GOOD sign.

Thank you again they are all really useful suggestions. I've got loads of stuff from the local autistic society today which is really helpful and similar too, including picture card/routine suggestions so thanks for those.

We used to do firm holding with Deborah when she did a lot of head banging as a toddler, the head banging stopped as soon as we let her get on with it. But knowing she may be autistic, maybe the head banging was her sensory under or overload release and once she'd been able to complete it a few times without interruption she just didn't need to do it any more. Or it may have been because my other half found a job out of the house (he was redundant but worked mainly from home before) and his voice had simply just been too loud for her to hear in a tantrum? Either way at the time I felt that firm holding wasn't the way to go, but I've been offering D a cuddle when she is upset and she is able to hear, and then ask for said cuddle and it does get through and stop the tantrum. So I may need to try firm holding again.

I think she is frustrated verbally because she is bright - it feels like there is all this stuff up there in her head with a really narrow space for it all to get out. Does that make sense? Either way, when her system is overloaded by hunger/thirst/fatigue or illness it takes up so much of that already too small gap that she screams. I'm realising I respond in an odd way to her screams - when the kids cry I really hate the noise. It makes me physically attacked which is why I go into defence mode and shout back, often just as I am trying really hard not too. I think I have issues with sensory overload too so I need to sus out that one as well.

As for the listening to her thing, I do that pretty well, it's just I treat her requests as toddler tantrums rather than being the way she is working things out. Its not like she is screaming for chocolate, just independence and wanting to do stuff. So I think I need to take a deep breath, remind myself I'm safe, remind myself she's probably making a perfectly reasonable request based on the way she works and take it from there.

Out of curiosity why do you think it's a good thing she wants to turn on the dish washer? Is it a helpfulness thing, a copying thing, independence or something else? She does copy phrases exactly and will also watch a class mate/friend/ her brother/sometimes us to work out how to copy a particular action. Is this also good or not? It seems at odds with the independence thing but I'm guessing could be useful to her if she's learning to imitate NT behaviour? No idea! I've just noticed she will sway from side to side if she's excited to see someone, but atm it's cute and they sway back

I can't speak for Chronos, but my 5 yr old son had very low initiative to do anything for himself. It is improving greatly, but from the age of 2 to 4, he just did not have the curiosity about a lot of things like NT kids do. So, I think this stopped him from learning things. Since he had a deficit in imitating our behaviors at home, we had to consciously teach him things instead of him watching us and picking it up on his own. My son is also a very tactile child, so he went through the stages of wanting to touch everything in sight much longer than other toddlers. He still wants to touch things a lot. I had to remind myself that this was his way of learning about the environment.

As far as the screaming, I know it is hard to not react in a verbal way, but we have found that the calmer our voices are, the better the reactions that we get from our son.

Hang in there, I think you are on the right track!

I dont know where you live but I had a long annoying wait for my daughter to be diagnosed as well. We were in California (US) and going through the Childrens Hospital. After waiting about 6 months and one messed up appointment we finally got her hearing and speech done. Then they told us that we would have to wait another several months to have her behavioral screening done. Fortunately the speech therapist let me know that we needed to get her diagnosed before she turned three to qualify for early intervention (they have changed that stupid little rule, thankfully) and that I should go to the Regional Center. They got us an appointment after only two weeks and we got her diagnosis and services very quickly and it was free, paid by the state. So depending on where you are there are faster ways of getting the help that she needs.
I know with my kids sometimes I have to be a detective to find out why they are having a meltdown. Sometimes there is nothing you can do once it reaches boiling point but you can look for signs during said meltdown and help them to slow down and teach them coping skills. My Autie does not want any affection when she is upset or injured....only when she is ready. If I were to grab her it would throw her into sensory overload and things would just escalate but every kid is different...hugging or squeezing actually helps my Aspie. A lot of times my kids will have a meltdown over something that happened at school. Its kind of a delayed reaction that starts because they feel they are safe enough to express the way they feel once they are home.
I hope you get everything sorted out soon, I know how frustrating it all is.

Ok well, I guess I should offer my two cents.

I still don't think I understand exactly what the screaming is about, but it seems you believe it to be meltdown related, and I have no reason to think otherwise. So, I will give you my 2 cents about dealing with meltdowns, in the hopes that it also helps with your screaming problems.

#1. The first step that you can do when dealing with meltdowns is to have a good meltdown recovery location. This is a nice, calm, safe, and comfortable place that your child can retreat to when they are feeling frustrated, overwhelmed, or otherwise having problems. It usually helps if it is a small spot where the child can 'hide' because being in a small warm place is very comforting. Some people just set up a little 'fort' in the child's room made of pillows, blankets, and maybe a cardboard box. Other options include a pup tent. You could just tell the child to go stay in their room, but something about human psychology makes us feel calmer when we have a small little place to hide, even if everybody knows where we are. So, for the cost of a blanket, a few pillows, and a cardboard box, set up a hiding spot for your child.

The idea here is to use this place as a safe spot for your child to get all their frustrations out. That way your child doesn't have to get embarrassed by melting down in front of other people, nor do you have to sit there and listen to them scream when your trying to watch TV. It also helps to get the meltdown done and over with faster when you remove them from the overwhelming situation. And once your child has calmed down and recovered, they can come on out and join the rest of the family again.

Of course the important part of this is how you go about implementing it. This isn't a 'time out' for your child. And you shouldn't be trying to force your child there against her will. That really isn't going to accomplish anything other than making her more stressed, which is just going to make the meltdown worse. Instead this should be something that you set up before the meltdown. Consider it an afternoon project to do together. Set it up, stock it with pillows, maybe a lamp and some coloring books, etc. Furthermore, let her know that this is her safe place that she can and should go to when she is feeling overwhelmed. She shouldn't go there because she is bad or anything, nor because you don't want her around. She should just go there because it is a nice spot for her to relax and regain her composure.

# 2. Meltdowns are usually preceded by signs of growing anxiety and stress. If you learn to recognize these signs, then you can get your child to their safe spot so they can relax before the meltdown happens. Signs include rapid breaths, fast talking, acting very 'ancy' or manic, as well as the eyes sort of 'glazing over'. The eye thing is hard to describe, but if you pay attention, you will see what I mean.

#3. Try to help your child be reducing the problems. As others have suggested, getting some PECS may help, and I encourage you to do that, but do try to be observant and see where she is struggling. If you can get her help where she needs it, then she will have less reasons to meltdown.

The fact is that there is more to handling meltdowns then I have listed here. I have actually written a book which goes into a lot of detail about what causes meltdowns, how to deal with them, and how to prevent them. If you have the time, I suggest checking out the link in my signature. I do a better and more thorough job of explaining the meltdowns there.

You mentioned that your daughter is social in a non-verbal way, that she has started preschool, and that the timing of these screaming fits roughtly correlates to times when she's trying to communicate something with you and you aren't "getting it." For those reasons, it sounds like her frustration is partly due to being tired on top of the stress of not being able to tell you what she wants. Doe she point to what she wants? What other types of coping skills has she been working on with her therapist to try to avoid the meltdowns?

My son used to scream for hours.

You need to learn how to communicate with her and she with you. Use a picture book. No need to spend money on it, you can make it yourself. It may take a few weeks to teach her and get her to use it. For example you can have a picture of the dishwasher knob on a page so if she wants to turn on the washer she can point to it. You can add things as they come up.

To teach her, for every thing you do, you show her the page first, tell her what it is, then do it. For example, if you know by her behavior she wants juice, you tell her 'ok, you want juice' while showing her juice in the book and repeating yourself. Then you go get the juice. Point her finger to the page and repeat yourself again, then give her the juice. Repetition is the key. You may get to a point after showing her the book for a few weeks where you know she knows how to use it but prefers to scream. At that point you refuse to get or allow her to do whatever it is she is screaming about until she shows you what it is (especially if you already know what it is).

Thank you all again.

Angelbear - thank you, its interesting to read about your son. I appreciate the encouragement too.

Chronos - weren't we all? In fact it's taken me so long to seek a diagnosis for Deborah as she is so similar to me as a child, except I was even more so (D spoke at 12 months, I spoke at 18; D walked at 15 months, I bottom shuffled happily until I was 2). Yes I am wondering about me, read my hello post in the hello section if you have nothing better to do.

Liloleme - Thank you, I do think a lot of it is delayed reaction plus just exhaustion following on from pre school. As I've said diagnosis is later than it might have been because I was not worried due to my own development, and I'm COMPLETELY NT....... Plus there do seem to be some issues with the referral but when we get it, it will take 3 months for the appt to come through.

Tracker - your insight is really valuable, thank you. We need to tidy our living space big time and part of that will involve making the safe space as you describe. I also checked out your link and will work my way through your book, it gave me a better idea of the sort of thing you were asking me about. I know you very precise before, but bear with me I'm NT (I think)! I've looked at her screaming today (today was quite a "safe" day, no pre school so much less stress) and it was short, sudden screams with frustration when she wasn't able to make something do what she wanted. She does have longer spells of screaming, this will be when she is dealing with more than one stress such as hunger, tiredness, thirst, and something not working, not being able to start, or complete a task to how she wants. a transition from one place to another etc. So it's one long term (ie more than 1 hour) or bodily stress plus the immediate stress of the thing not working or being asked to make a change or similar. Almost as if it's one physical and one mental stress which causes the meltdowns. I recognise the about to meltdown stages you mention and thing getting her to her safe place would be great. As it is that's when I offer food/drink/hug.

I am working on staying calmer and offering more hugs and she is responding to this. She is getting so huggy again and asks to be cuddles and gives kisses, its lovely.

Sahmain - yes I agree it's tiredness etc plus something else that causes it for D. She not only points to what she wants but she can verbalise it etc, often along with the screaming. I'm starting to appreciate how much the onus is on me to stay calm and listen.

Bjtao - I've downloaded the PECS images and have been told you can use them both on a calendar and as visual memory aids throughout the day, and a book sounds a good way too.

Overall, this week has got a lot better, We've al got our shared tummy bug out the way and although are still feeling a little drained we're all less tense and shouty. Joining here and our local autistic society and talking talking talking is really helping me. Deborah's just pleased to be getting the cuddles. Michael (younger brother) is carrying on with the teething.