"Timeouts" - is there a place for them?

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Hi - first post here. I am a parent of a 3 year old boy who is in the early stages of the diagnostic process. He appears to be on the spectrum (closest label at this point seems to be Aspergers) and we are going to be meeting in the next few weeks to review recommended plans for him.

I have been reading the forums for a couple of days and it appears to me that many here feel disciplining a child with Aspergers is at times counter-productive. My very limited experience and insights leave me completely unsure of the effect of things like timeout with my son. I try to give warnings of timeout, talk about why we are doing the timeout, keep them short in terms of duration, explain again afterward why we did it, and reassure him that I love him. I feel that there has been a measurable and positive effect on limiting certain behaviors in the few instances I have put him in timeout, but I worry that the overall message is getting lost or that I am hurting him in ways I don't realize.

I should add, his behavioral issues are what I consider relatively tame and are probably things that most parents go through. The only time we got anywhere near something 'dangerous' or hurtful was a phase of pushing his sister as she was trying to learn how to stand up and walk. Others include coloring on the walls, not listening when we tell him he needs to do something (like sit at the table and eat dinner or go to bed). He seems to understand when he does things that are "no-nos", but he often continues to do them until a timeout.

Also worth noting that the actions I am talking about seem very different than some of the meltdowns he has where a routine is changed to his displeasure. It seems to me that those periods of high anxiety have to be handled differently. In those instances, my gut has always said ignore the tantrum until he stops and then talk about it, but I am thinking I am looking through the wrong lens there too.

Clearly these are questions from somebody new to these thoughts and new to these forums, so please be gentle. Any insight about discipline issues would be appreciated though.

It sounds to me like you are trying to draw the lines carefully and appropriately. At 3 most kids - and that included my AS son - intentionally test limits, so learning that there is a consequence when one does not do as mom asked is important. You want the time outs to be assigned to intentional testing of the limits, and for that they will get the message through (pretty much anything done consistently will, in my experience).

Do be careful on the consequences for not doing as asked, ie to make sure he really heard the instruction, understood the instruction, and had enough time to react appropriately (there always needs to be some time allowance; we often sang or counted).

For all situations, remember that there is no, "you know what I meant" with AS kids; they are highly literal, and cannot extend from situation A to situation B, so how a rule applies to each situation will have to be taught separately. Making an allowance for that will help your child see you as being fair. Maybe a first rule break is a time out exception; second on are enforced.

Hitting and pushing are usually multi-faceted behaviors, so while you'll want to issue the consequence so the child gets a consistent message it's not OK, you'll also want to be working on the causes and triggers. Kids resort to physical measures because they don't have the words to express what they are feeling, or to get the change they need. So, you have to help them bridge the gap.

One of my worst memories, ie that I'm still mad at myself over, happened when my son was 3. Be very careful about keeping your promises and not changing mid-course, not matter how reasonable it may seem to you to make that change. That is far more than a 3 year old AS child can process.

i wouldnt say discipline itself is counter productive, but a particular style of discipline may be. it also depends on what the behavior is, and the individual child.

like you, we try to differentiate between meltdown/sensory behavior, which cant be disciplined away, and tempermental or disobedience behavior, which can respond to discipline. we dont use timeouts very often simply because our son has sensory issues and is not able to regulate himself enough to stay standing or sitting in one spot for any length of time. our son responds very well to "1-2-3", even without a statement of what happens when we reach 3 =) we also will restrict video games for his refusal to do as requested, for instance he refused to help clean up his toys in the living room last week and lost his privileges to play on the xbox or wii the rest of the evening.

as with all kids, discipline must be fair and appropriate with the consequence specific to the offense. spectrum kids are often very rule oriented, so a clear set of well understood rules will go a long way to getting positive behavior, and can be even more helpful when posted and able to be referenced.

and like dw said, changing course or changing the rules is a bad idea. flexibility is not the strong suit of an autistic child, they like rigid structure and consistency. so be careful what you institute as rules and punishment, and dont try to bluff. they are likely to call you on it =)

The only thing I want to point out here is that autistics really need a private place, and that "timeout" does NOT provide that (does NOT count as what we need even if you're not watching). And it can NOT be the same strategy as you use if he needs to be alone or calm down but doesn't realize it, which in turn cannot be the same as what you do if you need privacy. (Don't use the same words, don't use the same place, if he needs to be alone don't force him even if that seems like a better idea.)

So, if you're telling him to go to his room, make sure he has another part of the house that's "his" where others don't go and ask him if they may go if it's really important. (Without putting any pressure on him to say yes.)

Which is irrelevant to whether or how to use timeouts, though.

OH, and one more thing. A lot of what looks like "testing" in autistics is actually not testing at all. It took me till I was in my late teens to be able to hear even once (not even consistently, but ONE TIME be able to not even control but PERCEIVE) the tone of voice my mother spent my whole life yelling at me for using. Don't make that mistake. And if you accuse someone who's just minding their business of being rude, yes, they will snap and start screaming at you. That's to be expected. You would, too. Maybe it isn't the best response, but it's very understandable.

I would like to first remind you, your son is 3. He has not had much time to develop yet.

Disciplining a child with AS is not counter productive. It serves the same purpose as disciplining any child. However since children with AS have a different set of stressors, and motivators than most NT children, it can be difficult to determine when a punishment is appropriate because the child is actually being bad, or when the child is responding to unbearable stress and can't deal with it. In cases which warrant punishment, it can be difficult to find an effective punishment because of the different set of motivators.

My mother used to make me sit in the "naughty chair", which was a little rocking chair facing a corner of a room. However she noted she had far more difficulty getting me out of it than into it. I was very reserved though and rarely intentionally "naughty" so a quick firm scolding usually worked best with me. All other "bad" behavior was AS related and any for of punishment either had no effect or just resulted in a "melt down".



First of all, he is 3. He does not have the reasoning abilities of an adult. If what you are doing produces positive effects, I think that's a good indicator that you are on the right path. Don't worry about the overall message being lost on him. Most 3 year olds don't have the ability to understand the overall message. They just need to know, if they do something bad, they get in trouble. Right now it's just about defining his limits for him.



Let us see.



Quite normal...and fun. You should put up those long sheets of butcher paper so he can have a coloring wall.



At this age, this is normal and if the time out is working, then you have nothing to worry about. Children with AS often have transition problems, but this is usually differentiated at young ages from normal oppositional behavior by massive melt downs that don't respond to anything (of which even normal children have on occasion) and really only becomes apparent as a transition problem when the child is older and not doing any better at them, and are often bi-lateral. For example, if it's just as difficult to get your out of the bath tub, as it was to get them into it, and this carries out every bath time.

We give Olivia time-outs for misbehaving or to correct undesirable behavior. We give her one minute for every year old she is. So 3 minutes now.

If she's throwing a fit, we'll give her a time out until she calms down.

Quite normal...and fun. You should put up those long sheets of butcher paper so he can have a coloring wall.

from personal experience that is a bad idea... a 3yo will NOT distinguish the difference between one wall being good to colour on and one that is not good to colour on, forget about them staying on the paper. my as daughter is very artistic and i did this for her and it took forever to un-teach her the colouring on the wall thing. an eisel is a much better idea.

AS or not, a child needs discipline and boundries. an AS child needs even firmer boundries. sometimes we as parents need to use time outs. some behaviours call for immediate time outs, like hitting, each and every time the behaviour happens regardless of the circumstances. if they do it once and you understand why they did it, and don't time out them they will be confused and will push that limit much worse to try to figure out which instances will get time out and which won't. for some things i give my children a chance to undo or correct their behaviour before disciplining them. as in, kid is upset and knocks over box of toys. consequence: pick up the toys right away. then i count very slowly to give them a chance to follow through and if i get to 5 and they don't take action it's time out. even if i get to five and they suddenly say 'ok i'll pick it up' it's too late. they will then have to pick it up after time out so they learn that either way if they knock over the toys on purpose they have to pick them up. in a melt-down sceinario i send them for 'quiet time' and i have taught them 'calm down breathing' (in through the nose, blow out through the mouth slowly and repetatively) this seems to help if i can get them to do it before they are too far gone into melt-down mode. they have to stay in their room until they have calmed down. when they are quiet for a bit i ask them if they are ready to come out and join the family again. if so, we talk about what happened and they are free to go about their buisness. it is best to chose a consequence that is 'natural' as in it fits the behavior. you colour on the wall, you are gonna scrub the wall. you throw your dinner on the floor, you missed out on dinner. this helps to teach them to think about what they are doing before they do it. consistancy is key. people who say they tried everything make me wonder, they may have tried everything but being consistant.