NT kid behaviour, for reference?

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Here is my problem. I have a 9 y old son who is AS as most of you must know by now. My daughter is 18 months old and you all already know what my next sentence is going to be. I have NO idea what she should be acting like, since i have no reference. the only "normal "for me is my son's developpement ( i am AS too) and i can't figure out if she is acting AS or NT , and i don't want to make the same mistake twice. My son always semed perfectly fine to me , so if she is on the spectrum, i will miss it for sure.
I have tried keeping an eye out and if you want i will give you the signs that best describe how she acts.
She is a very happy child, in general, doesn't cry much, she is developping a temper though, as in wanting something and not letting go of her idea , if you take something away from her, she will come immediately after something of yours and attack it. Not strongly of course, she is small, but if i tell her to stop messing with something fragile,she will go to the laptop and hit it, or one of my vases and i don't know what she would do to it because i usually stop her
is that what NT kids do? i don't remember my son ever lashing out like this. but it could just be her.
When she has a toy and her brother wants it or wants to play WITH her, she will scream and pull it away from him. That's something brand new to me, my son would give you his shirt if you asked....and was like that at her age. If he gets annoyed and screams at her, she will scream right back at him. not impressed in the least.
She doesn't laugh when tickled, doesn't like cuddles, even as a small baby, before she could even crawl, she would pull away when you held her so i ended up putting her on a play mat or cushions, with toys. she never liked being touched. now this looks AS but my son liked being touched. that's also new to me.
She's basically not very close to me. I know it's a weird thing to say about your own daughter, but she feels like somebody else's child that just came to visit. she likes me a lot, i can see that, but she is very independant.
She is not messy or dirty or anything I would expect at that age. breaks nothing if it's not on purpose. My son was very clumsy and left desolation in his path but she just walks avoiding everything. She is physically very agile, eats with a fork, drinks out of glasses without help, can undress herself and put a shirt or pants on, and is learning to close buttons right now. If she makes a mess she will go get the broom to clean it. before you say it: i am no cleaning maniac. I do those things but not enough for her to think it's vital or something, i never got mad for an accident, it's just not my style. But she goes "bahhh "and wipes her hands everytime they get wet. She wipes kisses away too. at 18 months old....
She used to say a few words round 9-10 months old, and then she stopped. she's starting again, but i probably heard "mommy"4 times since she was born. she says computer though. and her brother's name, which is not as smple as "mommy", she says ball, car, wait and no a lot. she will be playing by herself and saying"wait wait wait wait....there. no wait wait." until she got it right. by the way she doesn't play with toys much. She "plays" closing pens with their caps, closing all bottles she sees, putting her shoes on ( almost succeeding lol ) and stubbornly picking up every piece of paper and putting it in the trash, even if it's my bills. i have to fish everything out of the trash .
one more thing : she will come to you to show you what she is doing, or to ask for help. But if you call her, she doesn't turn around, if you ask her to come, she might look at you like you have lost your mind and ignore you. AS kids are supposed not to show you anything right, but when she wants you to do something she will be very clear about it. she just doesn't answer when it comes from you.....
i have no idea how NT children act at that age. so that is why i am asking for help here, i am not NT, my son is not NT, i don't know what i am supposed to watch for and what is normal. She does wriggle her fingers a lot. but that might be normal too.
Any idea? i wouldn't want to miss it this time....sorry i know this has been asked billions of times and my post is long and half of it might be irrelevant i don't know......thank you if you read it anyway

Sounds like you have a very headstrong girl on your hands.

I only have one child with AS so I can't say what a NT would look like specifically but there's nothing of too much worry in your post. The regression would concern me and the aloofness. Otherwise, sounds like a strong willed girl in the making! The insubordination is NT and she is probably testing boundaries. Try to get a handle on that early, because it can get worse. I am sure you know that. Maybe someone else will give you more insight...

Wow, you are in the same boat as me. My 10 year old son was just diagnosed at 9 years old. Holy smokes did I miss the boat on that one. Apparently it was quite obvious to many people that he had an ASD. He was my first child, I was young when I had him, the stuff that seemed 'off' didn't cause a big problem. I brought stuff up to the docs over the years, they didn't seem concerned. I thought I was just a crappy parent or something.

Now I have a 22 month old and have the same questions you do. What is 'normal'? I have no reference for what is typical and not typical and I don't want to miss the boat again.

I agree with Mama to Grace. The only red flags that were raised to me of
AS is the speech patterns and the not really playing with toys and the not wanting to be touched too much.

As I am sure you probably know, every case of AS is different, and she is still pretty young. I would just continue to monitor her, because if she has AS, more things will probably start to emerge in the next year or so.

I would just keep coming to Wrong Planet for updates, and then maybe you can get a more clear picture.

Okay I am by no means an expert but I believe you have every right to be concerned. She displays a lot of red flags. I have a 6 year old son with AS and a 4 year old NT daughter. I didn't really have any major concerns for my son until my daughter was born. These are the differences that I saw in my children. My son was the same way your daughter was. He would be content playing alone, when you called his name he would not respond. He did come and get me when he needed help though. But he didn't care or notice if you needed him. My daughter would look at me as soon as I called her name. My daughter grabbed on to my shoulders when I held her, my son would just have limp arms. My daughter would go upstairs and get me something I needed, my son would go upstairs and not know where to look. My daughter told me she loved me as soon as she could talk. My son didn't tell me until he was at least 4 or 5. My daughter loves to play with other little girls and developed friends at an early age, to this day my son has no friends. My daughter is comfortable around other children and are shy with grown-ups, my son talks to grown-ups and are afraid of other children. My daughter is very understanding, my son is rigid and controlling and could easily loose his temper. My daughter could stop doing an activity and move on to the next activity very easily, my son needs much more advanced notice before changing activities else it could lead to a major tantrum. You could easily compromise with my daughter, with my son it's nearly impossible. My daughter knows when people lies or have bad intentions, my son doesn't. These are just a few examples. Your daughter is so young, I don't know if I was any help.

To answer your question about whether or not kids with autism come and show you things or ask for help..yes they do. My son did do that, it's just that when you needed him, he didnt notice or care. One major thing I remember my daughter doing and my son not doing is making facial expressions and nodding. My son shook his head no but never nodded yes. He never wrinkled his nose or frowned or made a mad face to express his feelings. You just knew he was upset or happy by his smile or cry. My daughter is very animated as far as her tone and facial expressions. All kids are different but these are how my kids differ.

With her developing tantrums and taking her toys back or screaming at her brother is definitely normal, especially at the terrible twos age group. I think if they don't out grow it and the tantrums become worst then you may have to seek help. I remember my son used to be very laid back, then around 3 or 4 when he should be over the terrible 2 stage, he got worst, the tantrums became severe and it came outta nowhere. The rigid behaviors were also uncontrollable.

I think the most noticeable red flag for your daughter is when you said it feels like she's not yours. I think NT kids are very affectionate and attached to their moms at an early age. I believe AS kids become attached later on. My son is also very affectionate (sometimes too much.) And one major thing about my kids is that my daughter had complete trust in me at a very young age, my son has a very hard time with trust. I believe NT kids could be consoled easier when upset or scared and with AS kids, you just have to wait it out until they are all cried out. These differences are so subtle and every kid is different so it's hard to tell.

Have you ever brought her into any social situations? How does she react to other kids? Does she show a slight interest?

thank you all for your answers i know she is a little bit confusing, but she shows so much personality already that i thought maybe i could start picking out some clues...
to answer your question Malya 2006, we do see a lot of children when we go pick her brother up from school, the little brothers and sisters from preschool are already out, and i found her attitude funny... she stands and watches them from a distance, she litterally stares at them, she is VERY interrested but she won't act on it. She just stays there and watches, i don't carry her for the reasons mentioned in my first post, so she is free to go as far as i'm concerned, but she never does. She also never runs away. That is another "brand new"thing for me, as my son would have been put on a leash had it been socially acceptable in france i swear, i couldn't turn around or he was gone and out of sight. She stays where i put her. She might take a few steps if we are alone, but if there are children around she will freeze and watch. She likes her brother's girlfriend though. She's 9 and loves babies, and my daughter even let her take her in her arms for brief moments. But childen her own age....the look of it is shyness. But i don't know if babies that age are supposed to know about self consciousness already! my son was never shy and talked inappropriately to anyone in sight. ( not that they understood his speach but well....)
i will wait a bit i suppose, no doctor is ever going to diagnose her at that age anyway.
oh talking about doctors: mine was trying to make her speak and got a bit worried, then when she lied her down on the table and she cried ( she hates it when you move her body against her will) she said that her crying was a bit deafening lol, and to watch for hearing impairment. She if far from hearing impaired, she can spot music way before i do ( i am supposed to be hyper sensitive to sounds but after 2 children your hearing goes down ) so i don't know. i will wait and see i guess?

edit: i re-read your post and no, there is no frowning or mad face. i can spot when she's about to cry because her mouth goes a bit limp but that's it. happy faces yes, she laughs also but not a lot imo. She 's a bit particular about that. you have to really know her to be able to make her laugh. She does play with one toy a lot: her brother's DS. she sits and plays, killing mario 100 times in a row, but she doesn't get tired of it,i think she likes the music too. not many faces no...i guess i never needed faces to know what my kids felt because i don't "do "faces , i "make"mad faces myself because i know it's supposed to stop children from misbehaving so she saw them. doesn't phase her though. she understands "no"and cries. that stops her. she repeats "nonononono"while crying. never hapenned with my son. you could say no or you could say lamppost, same effect lol.....

pps: a weirdness of hers: she cries when i say "shhhh", even in a nice way as in "shhh, the teddy bear is sleeping!!"she cries. that makes no sense whatsoever

I would definitely keep an eye on her interactions with her peers. If she is not really playing with other children by about 2.5 to 3 yrs old, I would be concerned. Also be on the look out for echolalia (repeating what was just said to her). This is a part of normal development as well, but should fade around 3 yrs. old.

Good luck and keep up the great work!

As an NT mom of a son recently diagnosed (8 years old) as Aspergers - I can tell you I noticed something off from the moment he was born. I have been to many various social services, psychologists, etc., and did not get a diagnosis until now. I was SO tired of people telling me his behavior was "normal"... it wasn't. EVERY YEAR there were problems with teachers and classmates. This showed up early because I tried to "socialize" my toddler son early on - to no avail - I thought perhaps a pre-school would be better. I was sure he was sweet and good-natured, but ferral! Pre-school helped him significantly - but probably made his preschool teachers nuts!

Each individual behavior can be seen as normal - so categorizing behaviors doesn't really work with high functioning AS. It's how the behavior look as a whole and play out in real-life with other people that let you know something's not right.

If you have a close NT friend or family member that you trust to be honest with you - and who won't say everything is fine just to be nice - I would suggest you let that person spend some time with your daughter and share their thoughts. If there is something "off" - they will notice. You might have to try some baby/toddler social groups to really "see" this. Public libraries often have baby/toddler get-togethers, or find a playgroup.

I have a 13 month daughter, an 8 yr old daughter, a 10 year old son and a 14 yr old stepson who has NVLD (and maybe HFA)...My baby daughter reminds me so much of her 8 and 10 yr old siblings - how they were as babies. I never knew my stepson as a baby but his father (my husband) says he was very very different. He walked late, he didn't talk, no babbling, he didn't gesture and point at things, he wasn't curious about his surroundings, he never fussed when his dad left the room, he never wanted to be held. I'll always be seeing my husband act very surprised at things our daughter does because he's never seen it in a baby whereas for me it's just typical stuff. Our daughter is always taking things out of drawers, just very curious. She wants to be with people and plays with other kids at the gym daycare. She has a big appetite and eats lots of different things. When her Daddy comes home she runs up to him and reaches her arms up. She dances and giggles. But I don't know if you can tell much at this age. She is up for her 3rd round of immunizations next week so my worries have lead me here. Anyhow, I think 18 months may be too young to tell anything. She sounds headstrong and that may just be her personality. When my baby girl doesn't get a toy she wants she knows how to throw a little temper tantrum and stomp her feet, I think that's just typical of toddlers.

I have one daughter who is NT and one who is Aspie, one Autie and two sons, one Bi Polar/Autism and one Aspie. This is going to sound silly but the major and rather simple difference between my Autistic kids and my NT kid that Ive noticed is that when we were out and a baby or kid started crying my NT daughter got very concerned and would say "poor baby" or "whats wrong?" even from age 12 months. My Autistic kids would just ignore babies crying or get annoyed by it. NT's have natural empathy...we, as Aspies/Auties lack that and have to learn to understand it later.