Misbehavior in school

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My 5.5 yr old ASD son is in a special needs kindergarten class in the public school system. There are only 4 kids in the class and 2 teachers. My son seems to enjoy going to school, he talks about it, and most days he gets an okay or good report. But about 2 days out of the week, he gets a bad report-----he didn't want to do his work, he makes noises and repeats phrases and shakes his head, or try to act silly to avoid the work. He somehow seems to be absorbing the information, but he does little to no work independently. It is just so hard getting these negative reports all the time. I know my son is capable of learning. He never says negative things about school and never refuses to go. He is totally fine when I drop him off in the mornings. He is never violent at school.

I feel like I have him in a very accommodating environment. He is not in a mainstream class with 20+ kids. He doesn't seem to have sensory overload. I feel like a private school may not be trained in working with him. I feel like homeschooling would not be productive because he tries to avoid the work with me too. Am I not getting something? He just seems to have avoidant behavior for doing work, and I can't figure it out. Am I expecting too much? I know my son has the ability to learn, I am just wondering why he has such an objection at times. I just don't know what to do for the future. Do I push for mainstreaming with an aid, do I look for a private school that specializes in ASD, or do I homeschool? Any suggestions?

it would be a good idea to start charting the behavior issues to see if there is a common theme. is it certain subjects, certain days, one specific teacher... is he refusing to do work that involves writing? could it be painful for him like other autistic kids experience? if you have those reports, maybe going back through them would give you an idea of any recurring themes.

i would also encourage you to try and separate out the "bad" behavior from the autistic behavior. repeating phrases, making noises, those things are really part of who he is, not just him misbehaving. i know youve talked about how vocal he is with stims, maybe he is doing those things to self calm. are they happening along with the refusal to do work? maybe thats a sign he is feeling overwhelmed or stressed on those days. it can be hard to walk that line between letting him be who he is, and making sure him being himself isnt making the classroom environment negative for other kids. be sure the teachers are trying to walk that line as well and not just trying to suppress his stimming.

i wish there was a magic 8 ball that would tell us all where to put our kids. we are trying to find a good placement for kindergarten next year, and we just dont know where he should be. we have the options of numerous public schools as well as a special needs school with autism specific classrooms. i am pretty sure we are going with a mainstream option, just not sure which school.

Hi Angelbear

I am sending you a big hug because getting negative school reports can be very difficult - I know, we got/get plenty. Please try and stay focused on his good days and build on them - the good days get you through the not-so-good ones. He gets 3/5 good days and thats a positive thing ':D'

It can be a variety of things causing these negative behaviours, not understanding the lesson and becoming frustrated or simply being tired. My son would be great in the morning but difficult in the afternoon lessons - this was because the playground environment was so stressful he was completely overwhelmed and this made focusing difficult. My daughter got angry and threw books about because she was very embarrassed about having the wrong work - teaching her to explain things to her teaching assistant have helped We have also had sensory issues affecting work, if someone is tapping their pencil my son struggles to hold it together (the noise really upsets him - he needs a very quite classroom). My kids are 11 and we are only learning how all these things impact on their day - we are always learning

Has he got an IEP (504), have the school identified what triggers these behaviours? I am a great believer in ABA and have found it very helpful, my son (and daughter, both AS) have reward charts for good behaviours and they work very well. One of the target behaviours is to "ask for help when you need it" this has helped reduce incidents caused by frustration.

The Principles of ABA (applied behaviour analysis) include identify the "ABC's" (Antecedents, Behaviors and Consequences):-
A Antecedents are the events that happen before the behaviour occurs.
B Behaviour is the specific way the child acts.
C Consequences are the events that happen to the child immediately following the behaviour

Speak to his teacher about identifying these ABC's and an ABA therapist to develop reward charts - its worth a try???

Just don't put him through 40 hours of intensive training a week, though. He should have some free time to be himself and be a kid.

It is still hard to tell about the vocal stimming. Sometimes it is to avoid work, sometimes it is to get attention, sometimes it is because he just enjoys doing (self stimulation)

I know he does it to avoid work at times because when we sit down to do homework, he does it with me. He will start saying silly things too. So I guess I need to get to the root cause of why he is avoiding the work.

Sometimes he does do it to get attention because when my husband and I are trying to have a conversation, he will start it. If we ignore him or leave the room, most of the time he stops.

And many times, he is just doing it when he is not being asked to work or do anything. He does it when he is drawing on his own, or just running around the room doing it. The funny thing is, his speech continues to improve daily, so maybe this is helping him. I guess it is just finding the balance of when it is appropriate and when it is not.

With all of that said, I am not sure if we should treat it differently in each circumstance, or be consistent in the way we handle it. I don't have a problem with him doing it to a certain degree at home. And I think the teachers are making allowances for it to some degree.

As far as writing, he is still holding his pencil or crayon with an incorrect grasp, even though he seems to be writing his letters and numbers okay.

I think I will take your advice and start a log. The teachers have already recommended him going into a class geared for HFA/Aspergers next year. Since he was a young kindergartner this year (summer birthday) maybe one more year of learning to focus on his work would be helpful.

Making decisions about his education is one of the hardest things I have done. I feel so unequipped to make the decisions at times. And I worry that I am doing him a disservice to keep placing him in special classes when academically, I feel that he is almost on target to where he should be. But at the same time, if his behavior at school is like it is when I am working with him on homework, I can see how it would be very disruptive.

Thanks for your input!

Don't worry Cockney, I would never put him through 40 hours a week of intensive training. I allow him time at home to be himself. I just would like him to understand that school is more of a place to focus on learning and not acting silly. I just see his potential, and it is hard as a parent to not worry about what road he is going to go on.

Thanks Foobabe, You are right. I have to keep focusing on the positive. He is improving in so many ways, that I am pleased with a lot. He is still young, so hopefully, things will get better. I guess it is just hard to get the negative reports when I feel that while he is at school, I have no way of knowing what is causing him distress or problems. The school has noticed as well that he seems to work better in the mornings than the afternoon, but somedays, he just doesn't want to work at all.

I just try to do the best I can and teach him what I can when he is with me, and just hope for the best when I drop him off at school.

my son also does better in the morning and worse in the afternoon. most of it seems to be what they are doing at the time. his class has academics in the morning, and things like rug story time and free choice play in the afternoon. he does much better when he has something to focus on, and then the chaos of free time and all the kids together on the rug makes it difficult for him to focus and not get overstimulated.

it can be really helpful to look at when during the day the difficult times are, and what happens before this time. i discovered how important this knowledge is last year when trying to figure out why my oldest was shutting down so much in math class. a little investigation and i learned math is right after lunch and is on the far side of the school from his locker. with the noise and social isolation of the middle school lunch room, and traversing the hallways full of middle and high schoolers to get to math, often feeling bullied in both situations, by time he got to math he was teetering on the brink and the least little thing set him off. i didnt figure this out until the end of the year, so it didnt do him much good, but at least i know for the future to look at more than what is happening at the time.

Angelbear, it bothers me that the school is giving you "negative" reports based on these behaviours.

It bothers me because the school is essentially giving you a report on those days that says "your son is autistic". What exactly are you - or he - supposed to do about that? You say he gets a "bad" report - but all the things you describe as "bad" are intrinsically autistic.

It sounds like the school is trying to de-autize him and he's not getting with the program fast enough.

Am I misinterpreting their reports? It sounds like he's "acting" autistic. And he's only FIVE YEARS OLD. So I guess to me, to be honest, it sounds like people (the school, and/or you) may indeed be expecting too much, if you are expecting him to act like he's NOT autistic.

My son is MISERABLE at school and I've recently pulled him out for the 2nd time in as many years to homeschool him. What struck me about your question was this "My son seems to enjoy going to school".

THAT is a gift. And I would be cautious about entertaining these negative reports - because eventually, if he's not allowed to be himself, or isn't given the room to outgrow some of his autistic traits in his OWN time - he won't be enjoying it for long.

Learning happens only when our kids are comfortable and happy, so if he's happy - THAT is what you - and the school - should be focussed on at this age.

I hear you Caitlin. The school gives a report everyday, and really the days they give the negative reports is the days that he just really refuses to work most of the day. He has an IEP, so they make allowances for his autistic behaviors. It is mainly the days that he is overly defiant that he gets a negative report.

I guess the teacher just wants me to be aware of what is going on, but some days I do think to myself "Well, his behaviors are textbook characteristics of autism, and that is what he is doing---that is his diagnosis, so should anyone be surprised?"

I want him to be happy at school, I was just really concerned that his behaviors were going to get him placed into a more restrictive environment for him. But, they have suggested a class for him next year that is for HFA/Asperger's, so I am feeling a little better about that. Because academically, my son is learning. He may never be able to be in a mainstream class, and I am okay with that. I just want to do what is right for him, and just not assume that he is not capable of things and hold him back. It is a fine balance as I am sure you know.

Posting here helps me keep it all in perspective. I am really trying to go forward and let those "bad" days roll off my back and just move on to the next. It really is about just taking it one day at time.

Thanks for your input, and I hope things are going okay with your son.

A fine balance indeed Angelbear - the finest one I've ever had to walk in my entire life.

My little guy is happy homeschooling (most of the time ) but most importantly he's losing the self-loathing language, the intense anxiety, and the inability to learn due to massive overstimulation, that he was suffering in public school.

He's been accepted for the next academic year to a very small private school that specializes in kids who learn differently. Instead of 29 kids in his class and 1 teacher, there will be 5 kids with 2 teachers, in an environment custom designed for kids with learning differences. It will cost a fortune, but I'm hopeful that it will be a worthwhile investment in his future.

For right now, I have been okay with the public school. But, my son has always been in a protected little bubble in special ed. If he did ever mainstream, I am not so sure he would do okay. I don't know if he will get picked on. So I am keeping my options open. I am just going one year at a time----If we go with the private school route, i will definitely need to go back to work to help supplement this. I could homeschool, but am not sure how he will do for me. So, for right now, we are just sticking with public school until I feel that it is not working.

In my part of Canada (not sure about the other provinces) there is no 'special ed'. There is only 'mainstream' with legislated inclusion for ALL children. Looks beautiful on paper - and would work beautifully in reality - if we had enough funding to pay for MUCH smaller class sizes. Until then, kids like mine will either suffer through it, or be pulled out by frustrated parents. Inclusion is a hugely complicated issue.

If you ever get a chance, watch the documentary "Including Samuel" - brilliant film about the tough issues surrounding inclusion.