Problems with differing parental opinion on discipline

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My husband isn't completely on board with this Aspergers diagnosis. He feels like our daughter is lazy, rude, impulsive, can't follow rules, disrespectful, self-centered, and uninhibited. I started homeschooling her this year (prior to knowing about ASD) because she was being bullyed and was suicidal. He has a very strong opinion about learning to deal with bullying and being a better person in the end so he didn't want to do this, he just wanted her to deal with it. He also thinks that discipline is the only way to handle children and train them. I am not a good discipliner and I accept children to follow my examples and do right with guidance and clarity. (We joke about how much we are like that show Dharma and Greg) I think I am more intuitive and I can see that our ASD child's response to discipline isn't in the norm and has quite the opposite effect. We have 2 other NT children who display target behavior after discipline so he feels like this method works best and he accepts nothing from them except the desired outcome. He thinks our oldest is just being difficult and we therefore should be even more strict on her even though he gets frustrated to a point that he can't deal with her either. I can't seem to get it through his head that she's never going to respond in the same way as the other too and we need to do something different with her. He says I am making excuses for her behavior and she is excepted to learn the way of the world if she's going to survive and be happy and successful. If anything having this diagnosis is making him harder towards her. I am at a loss here. I don't feel like I am making excuses for her, I think I am trying to find better ways of reaching her and understanding her. He says that's all fine and well but she must be able to do what she is told to do, when she is told to do it, and how she is told to do. No excuses, no questions, no arguing, and no negotiating. Any advice or suggestions are appreciated. I can elaborate with specific examples if you wish but many of you probably understand the behaviors I am talking about as they seem to be typical ASD behaviors.

I generally agree with that, but your husband now truly needs to step back a bit and see what the actual problems are ... and that is going to be very difficult for him. As best you can, and without angering him, if possible, just keep trying to help him see no two children are identical and doing or not doing things for all the same reasons.

Well you I seem to walk in similar shoes! but we've been doing this for 7 years.

First and for most is your husband right that she needs to learn all those things and be disciplined. YES! but she needs to learn in a different way and a different pace then his other children. She can be held accountable for the behavior you expect in your house. But once again she will learn at a different pace and in a different way. Discipling that works for the other 2 children may or may not work for her.

Things that might help the two of you:
-First my husband had to agree to "learn" about the diagnosis. Not except it but learn. He had to come to terms with the fact what we were doing wasn't working and if we continued the same way our son would never reach the goals my husband was talking about

-If he has not been at the appointments it might help if he attends a few to hear what is being said. An appointment with just the 2 parents and not the child would be very helpful as some of the things that need talked about may upset your daughter. You either wont get past the first thing that upsets her or the adults just wont ask the question as they know it would upset her.

-List your goals for your daughter and review them with someone who knows about both Autism and your daughter. They will be able to help you apply goals that fit your daughter.
With asperger's she should be able to meet most of the goals that are so important to your husband. But she will learn with different methods and possibly even a different pace. My son is 15 he doesn't have a drivers permit nor will he get a driver's license at the age of 16. Is there a chance he will have one at 18 or 20. Yes because by then he will have developed some of the skills he should have had at 16.
Is there a chance he will never have a Drivers license. Yes
and my son's real Dad had to deal with the feelings that caused him to have as a father, a grieving process basically.

I'll give you one more thing so as not to over load you with ideas right now.
We just discovered with my husband (step-dad) that all the stuff I collected from the doctor's office, school, or the Internet and gave him over the years never did him any good.
He still stood by his opinion that is almost identical to your husbands.
But last week our house might as well have been WW3. My husband ended up looking up some stuff on his own. First couple of web sites did him no good, didn't change his way of thinking. But by the 5th article he had an Ah-ha moment. For some reason that article was written in a way that made him understand. basically just because a Dr, school or I thought it was a great article didn't mean it was the one for my husband.
So ask you husband to do his own research and find his own Ah-ha moment.

after posting that I thought of a very important point

If your husband agrees to research on his own make sure he understands the Basics of ASD.
Your daughter doesn't have to have all issues listed, nor does she necessarily have to respond in the way the example talks about. Each and everyone of these kids are individuals.
They are not Cookie Cutter kids. each are unique in there own way.

I think something that's important to remember with spouses is the genetic component of autism: a parent may well be on the spectrum. It's very difficult to understand a child on the spectrum if you don't understand yourself, first.

If your spouse is or seems to be on the spectrum, you may need a different approach. First of all, flooding them with information isn't going to do it - you need some kind of concise and preferably visual information. See if you can find videos (I don't know if any of the Autism Talk TV videos will help in this regard, but something like that...maybe Alex's Autism Reality http://cdn.wrongplanet.net/video/autismreality.mp4 or Temple Grandin's TED speech http://www.ted.com/speakers/temple_grandin.html )

Second of all, they may not realize that their intolerance for their child's behavior is because they internalized a negative perception of the autism spectrum from their childhood: they may be remembering being called names like "weird" or "lazy" when they see certain behaviors in their own children. They may be hoping to prevent behavior that caused them to be bullied or singled out. They may not even be aware that they're reacting this way because of their own experience; we both have had to wrestle with this particular demon and are still struggling with it.

Third, I'm coming to realize that I've had to step out of my comfort zone when parenting my son: probably because of my relationship to the spectrum, I need things to be MY way, I need order and quiet and MY noise and MY level of physical stimulation...and really, all that has to come in a distant second in favor of what my son needs. I can see where my first reaction was to start setting all kinds of rules, because that's how I first was able to take care of myself...but, again, it doesn't work well when you are dealing with a child.

I think, most critical of all these things, it is important for parents to see good role models in autism and in parenting; to know that people who have overcome their difficulties and are living successful lives in their own quirky way.

How long has your daughter been diagnosed? My son has been diagnosed for 2.5 years, and I feel like my husband is finally coming around. For the life of me, I can't figure out why he will not read a few books on Aspergers. He loves to read and will spend hours reading books on historical events and other things. I have often felt that he may have some AS traits since we but heads so much on how to raise our son. He too feels that we can just keep disciplining his problems away.

Another poster on here suggested a book "The Explosive Child" to me to read, and it seems to have helped us very much. Maybe you can interest him in reading this one.....

Good luck and you are not alone!

I was disagnosed as an adult but interestingly, although both my parents resisted the conclusion and I had to put pressure on both of them to consider it, my dad was particularly hostile to it, snapping on one occasion "do you want to have aspergers for the rest of your life?!"

What he couldn't understand was that I'd already had a miserable time thinking I was stupid or hopeless in many areas and here was an explanation that allowed me to begin accepting myself for who I am, even though it meant I indeed couldn't help finding many things very difficult.

He seemed to look at it as a life sentence that was just now being passed, even though it really made nothing worse than it already was and made many things better because they were now understood. I think he's going through a grieving process for the child he thought he had and even though I've grown up putting them through a lot of stress because of my challenges, the explanation is for him (and my mother to a certain extent) a cause for despair. I find that very sad as for me it was a relief that it really wasn't something I could have handled differently and more strictness would have just made things worse.

Of course there need to be rules and self control, but equally AS kids are facing a greater challenge than most other children and they need to be handled differently. I never wanted to be naughty as a child and one of my greatest fears was people thinking that about me. I wanted to do right. At the same time AS children need to try much harder than other children to just hold things together day by day and I'm sure many of the people on this forum have learned to develop great levels of self control, probably more than the average NT person understands.

At the end of the day we all want to make our parents proud and we want them to understand us.

Your husband sounds like the stuff personality disorders are made of.

Normal parenting techniques don't work with children with AS, and if he would actually like solutions to the problem, he is going to have to take a different approach. Otherwise he will be on the losing end of an up hill battle, will destroy his relationship with his daughter, and will cause her unnecessary and irrepairable damage.

Here is a story.

One day, the wind saw a man in a coat walking, and being the kind of guy he was, he said to the sun "I bet I can get that coat off that man quicker than you." By this, the sun was intrigued, so he said "Go ahead." So, the wind started to blow and the man grabbed on to his coat. Seeing this, the wind blew harder, to no avail. So the wind blew even harder, until trees were uprooted and roofs came off houses...but the harder the wind blew, the tighter the man clung to his coat, and eventually, the wind gave up.

At seeing this, the sun smiled, and grew a little warmer. "Now watch," he said. And so the sun shone. Warm enough to melt the ice that had formed on the ground from the wind. Warm enough to make children come out and play, and finally, when it was not quite cold, and not quite hot, the man took off his coat.

Your husband in the wind. He is likely one of those people who thinks the only way to accomplish something is with brute force. But this is usually the most difficult way to accomplish something, and most certainly the least successful way with children with AS.

Your husband needs to be spoken to by a neurologist who is familiar with AS, as I get the feeling he doesn't think very highly of psychiatrists or psychologists. You may also go to Google Scholar and search for brain imaging studies on AS which you can show him.

Hello there,

I am in a very similar situation, I tried already what's been said in the above posts, but no result.
I'm 30 years old, diagnosed with aspergers, I have two boys, one is 6 years old and also diagnosed with aspergers and another 3 years old boy who is NT.

My wife seems to be very ok about my autism when talking to her, she completely respects my limits, she lets me alone when I need it and even arranges to leave with the children once in a while when the noise is nearly causing me a meltdown.

But interestingly she seems to be not so willing to play in the same rules with our 6 years old son. Because he is very manipulative and intelligent, she thinks he is all there when she's giving him a big talk.

Often she does what I call a 'terrorism', I'm not sure if that word is too harsh in the English language, but that's how I define her pressure with our aspie son. He has huge issues for food, he hates the texture of sauces, too soggy rice and definitely won't eat beans at all, which is a big issue because here in Brazil we eat lots of rice with beans, it's our main stapple.

He ultimatelly refuses to eat that type of stuff, I tell her to make some different things for him as I'm not at home during the noon mealtime, she says: "he's gonna eat what we eat!". It's so freaking hard to explain to her about those issues.

Yesterday we had this big move out, we moved from the outskirts to the bigger part of the city we live. It was stressful and tiresome, so at supper time, our sister-in-lay who was there helping us, prepared some rice with veggies and sausage. He only eats the sausages and had his issues about the rice. He was very stressed out because of the move out, my wife had already grounded him for a time spam I think to be just too much, and then did this 'terrorism' that he would eat or eat the food.

I was trying to be supportive to her but at the same time to my son, as I fully understand where he is comming from. She said she understands the issues, that she had read every single website about the syndrome and that he is to have some diferentiated psychology, but she says that as he is a manipulative child he has to be all there and is certainly comprehending all the issues.

Firstly, how the hell is a 6 years old child at all, able to understand all the nuances that is involved in an adult's mind? Secondly, I'm 30 and have a huge trouble trying to explain my feelings, much worse trying to explain what's my son going through at so tender a age. For him who is just 6, might be even worse to make his thoughts clear and defend himself.

I'm not happy at all with this situation, I want to make her understand that he's gotta learn some rules, but it won't be by any means the same rules an NT kid plays.

Yesterday I had this meltdown just seeing my son having a meltdown and seeing my wife acting as if he was manipulating the whole situation.

She is not a bad person, she is a great mother, really is. But she seems that she's not beeing able to fully understand the issues that being an aspie are involved. I love her and can't make my son think that she's wrong with her whole educating him by stepping against him in front of her.

I'm confused and right now it's very hard for me to make my thoughts clear, much worse in English. I hope you all understand what I'm trying to say here and beg for some help.

Just to give some hints, he's not going to psychologist right now, nor is he taking any meds.

At my house, my mother usually just asked us what we wanted, or told us to make what we wanted ourself.

She never forced us to eat things we didn't like and if we did eat something we didn't like, it was because that was all there was to eat.

Your wife is having an empathy problem. Ask her if she thinks it's reasonable to force an adult to eat something they didn't like. Most people don't. Most people respect an adult when they say they don't like a particular food item, and it's not made an issue.

Ask her why should children deserve less respect in this issue.

It's hard to explain. It's like that philosophical issue people say all the time: "is my way of seeing the red color, the same as yours"?

I think she is being honest when she says that she understands, but she has never walked on an aspie's shoe, therefore I don't think she will ever understand us. She'll never be able to see the red color as we see.

When I look at my son, I can relate every single aspect of my childhood, I can see through his eyes his struggles, I understand him fully. I don't want to have problems with my wife about this, but I can't seem to make my feelings and thoughts clear.

Galwacco
I had a couple thoughts when reading your posts. These may or may not apply and you very well could have already thought about these.

Your wife seems to respect the challenges you face. Do you have issues with textures or certain food? If you don't then maybe she doesn't think your son should have issues with food. Is she comparing your issues and how you handle them to your son. Basically You don't do it so what he is doing must not be Autism. No two ASD people will be exactly a like.



Sounds like your wife has done a lot of research on websites already but there is so much out there it is very easy to not find the information you need. The mistake I made at first when searching for websites about Autism was to not search for the issue but just search Autism or Aspergers. An article that tries to explain all the things about Autism can't explain everything an ASD person might have trouble with and the things it does talk about is covered very briefly.
I was told to get more specific when I want information. I already new my son had Autism so that no longer was the important word. I needed to search the issue. In this case I would type Food Texture Autism. That way I have several articles to look at that the whole article addresses Food Textures and can give more detail information.
I also love this website for researching specific issues my son faces
http://www.neurodiversity.com/main.html
and here is the results for Food Textures Autism
http://www.neurodiversity.com/food.html

One thing I always try and remember about texture issues is a comment I read (I'm sorry I don't know the website or book to give you)
It basically said that texture issues are a very big thing. If it is clothes that you are trying to make the child wear it is like asking them to rub sandpaper on their skin. If it is food you are trying to make them eat it is like you are asking them to eat a plate of broken glass.

You're wife sounds a lot like my husband. They say they understand but all they can see is manipulation. I feel like I am the only person that truly sees my daughter for who she is, and I felt that way since she was little. Finding ASD confirmed to me that my daughter is who she is but it also gave me a tool so that others can see her as clearly as I do. I don't believe she's intent on manipulating, it just comes off that way. I think with your wife it might help to outline behaviors your son has that she doesn't like and for you and your son to come up with solutions for her to follow. My husband has agreed to do that. He doesn't really want to do the reading and research which annoys me, but he agrees to follow my lead and trust my solutions because I have researched them. Maybe your wife will trust your solutions because you have lived them. If she wants your son to be strong and successful she's going to have to put her trust in you that you know what to do. An easy solution for the food is to have something that he will eat, but it isn't extravagant that he can eat when he refuses the meal. (Ours is peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, and this option is open to anyone in the family if I make something they don't like.) It is food they will eat, but it doesn't seem like they are pulling on over on me when they refuse to eat what I make. I always joke and say "I only cook one meal at a time, so peanut butter and jelly is your only choice.". My daughter will complain, but this is a standing rule in the house so she does go along with it. The real issue with your wife is that she wants to be in charge but she has to learn she's still in charge when making accomodations but she's helping her son and husband in doing so. It might mean following your lead for a little while and she needs to accept that. You have a long road ahead if your son is only 6, she needs to let you find the right path and the whole family will be better for it. My husband and I have had a couple of talks lately and ideas are beginning to take form. He's very, very in tune with people and recognizes that he can be very manipulative himself and his "it takes one to know one" attitude towards are our daughter isn't really the case because I was able to point out that our daughters manipulative behavior really wasn't refined and based on sensing other peoples thoughts, desires, and needs but by her cold attitude towards us and her frank disregard of our feelings making her not conniving and manipulative, just demanding and confused. He agreed with this assessment, but took it a step further and recognized that she drives him crazy because the tactics and techniques he uses on people don't seem to effect her and he doesn't know how to work with people outside his normal way. HHHmmm, that's an interesting observation I said, having known it all along. He has agreed to follow my lead because this time, he can recognize it's probably better. We'll see.... Good luck you say it is hard to put it into words but I think you did great on here and it's not even your first language just keep trying to talk to her and keep us posted. I have always liked discussion boards because they help my ideas take shape through the words of others and I am not even AS.

Maybe you can explain to her that you did have these same issues as a child, and that you completely understand what your son is going through. Tell her that you love and support her, but that you think that this approach is not going to be helpful for your son.

Lots of children (even NT) are picky eaters. Maybe you could try to come up with some other meals that your son would eat to take the pressure off of her. Does your son take a multi vitamin? Maybe that would help ease her mind that he is at least getting some nutrients.

Brenda D
bittersweetaffinity
angelbear

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I am still reading and digesting the ideas and insights you game me. I really appreciate that you actually took the time to help a lost fellow all the way here in Brazil, it means a lot to me.

Yesterday I was feeling so down, this night I just didn't sleep at all, my brain was going bananas about the situation and I just couldn't make a straight thought about the whole situation. I'm going to read all the undoubtedly valuable hints you gave me, it's going to take some 3 or 4 readings so I can digest everything. I'm not dumb, but it takes time so I can grasp on things.

So, thank you again!

I agree that there should always be a "no cook" solution that the child can get for themselves, so no one has to cook multiple meals.

We usually have leftovers or yogurt, quesodilla, Peanut Butter & Jelly, etc. I will not make another meal, but I will allow him to eat something else to replace the missing nutrient. I try to get him to choose the right thing to replace what he doesn't like - for instance if he doesn't like the protien, he needs to choose an alternate protien. For veggies, I will allow him to choose any fruit or veggie to replace what was served.

In this way I am honoring DS's eating issues whill continuing to educate on proper nutrition.

If your wife really doesn't get it - serve her dinner of something she would find gross 9cow eyeball or something) and tell her this is what dinner would be like for your DS.

When you notice she is going crazy because she feels like he won't listen to her, help her figure out some good alternate choices for him so she is still in control, but he gets what he needs.

This is helping us.