3 3/4 year old referred to psychologist by kindergarten

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Hi, i'm new here and based in the UK. My son has been referred to hospital psychologist because his pre school was concerned about him, e.g.

-functional language (doesn't use speech to connect, rather, to get what he wants).
-not sharing with other children
-playing alone
-lack of eye contact
-not noticing new people or noticing when the staff talk to him

At home (I am a stay at home mum) he used to be obsessed with opening and closing doors and flicking switches, to the extent we bought him a disconnected plastic plug socket from the hardware store. He is now obsessed by numbers. He chants to himself, counting up to 100. If I ask him what he did at nursery, he doesn't answer until I've asked him several times. He just continues with the counting.

As well as counting up to ten on his fingers, he has devised a "system" for representing numbers greater than 10 on his fingers. For instance, he holds up two fingers on one hand, and three on the other and says "twenty three". He knows all the letters of the alphabet and some simple words, but in all cases, rather than increase these skills in many cases he just wants to repeat them over and over. He often doesn't seem to want new knowledge with letters and numbers - it is like he "stops" - but it is a different case with music. Even walking down the street the fingers are being ticked off and the counting is going on under his breath.

Other than the counting he enjoys simple games like lotto, snap and tickling games. He plays a lot with musical instruments, and enjoys learning notes and tunes. He can play "I'm a little teapot" on the chime bars. We take him to music workshop once a week and he does well there. My son has never played with trains or cars much, and does not know what to do with them (even though I still get the train set out and chuff the trains round the track with him, he ignores it or destroys the track). He seems to find it difficult to entertain himself and he prefers to do things with me (board games, reading books, action songs). He enjoys playing with his Vtech toy laptop. He has never drawn a face, or something meant to be a face, but he will draw ones, zeros and sevens. Seven is his favourite number.

He has definitely got more "set in his ways" as he's got older.

The psychologist said she thought he was on "the autistic spectrum" but couldn't be sure without extra tests. She said that my son could not be expected to start school without one on one special needs support, for which we would be eligible for funding.

We're waiting now for a report from the psychologist.

I am worried about my little boy. I am a trained, but no longer practising, professional astronomer and my husband is in IT so we have no difficulty with geeks in the family. I am worried that his need for repetition will prevent him from learning and realising his potential.

Does anyone here agree he shows signs of autism? What can we do to help our sweet precious little (and only) boy?

Congratulations, it sounds like your son is autistic!

The most helpful book I've come across for how to raise autistic children was written by a member of WrongPlanet named Tracker. He posts here a lot too. Lots of autistic adults have written memoirs. He's the very first autistic adult who wrote a "how-to" guide. It's actually a pdf file, rather than an actual book. But long. It's bookmarked in various places throughout this forum but I'll post his website where you can download it.

www.asdstuff.com


If you do have an autistic child, his book is possibly the most helpful reference in how to raise him that you will come across.

If you're both geeks, and have geek-family backgrounds - why don't you ask your parents what you were like as kids? It may well be that you were similar at 3. We are finding all kinds of spectrum-like tendencies in our own past which were rationalized away and ignored - and we turned out OK. For instance, my husband didn't speak until he was 3, and then spoke in complete sentences - everybody blamed his brothers, for some reason.

What is different between my son's experience and ours is that we are working to make sure he doesn't struggle in childhood the way we did; we both had an extremely difficult time.

A poster here wrote an e-book that many of us have found helpful: http://www.asdstuff.com/grats.html It's a good place to start - and I think this is also a helpful tool: http://www.autismspeaks.org/community/f ... ay_kit.php

I often had feared my son was "stuck" on some developmental milestone - climbing, walking, tying shoes, riding a bike. He will do the things he's comfortable with and refuse to have anything to do with something new...then, suddenly, one day he takes it on and is able to learn whatever it is in an afternoon. His process is much more internal than other kids I know. I don't know if it's typical, but it seems to be his general M.O.

Whatever happens, don't worry - your child's potential is very much there. A diagnosis or even a suspected diagnosis can be a real tool in helping you understand what your child needs you to do to unlock that potential.

From my terrifying experience, most psychologists and teachers will insist on the socialization and not on academics and learning at all. I wish I can get back last 3 wasted years so that is why I am typing this: be very cautious about the direction that you want for your child and don't let the "professionals" to waste your time . It just leads to frustration. I am not saying that that all professionals are bad but you need to carefully choose. There are many approaches and diagnosis, we got 3 different ones from 3 different professionals. Diagnostic criteria changes however for me it is about who can make a change and in a direction that you think that is important.

Honestly my husband and I got nervous breakdowns dealing with school and psychologists because our engineering logic obviously doesn't work with them. Now we just steer away.

welcome to wp =) i would agree, just about everything you describe sounds like asd traits. it also sounds like you have quite a wonderfully unique little boy on your hands. whether he will need one on one support in the future, i think its too early to tell. my youngest son has some accommodations, but does not have an aide, and he sounds quite a bit like your son, minus the counting (mine does count sometimes for fun, but not as frequently).

one thing i would suggest with asking about his day, make sure you get his attention first. you can get in his line of sight, or tap him on the shoulder, but make an effort to get his attention before you ask the question. its quite possible that your voice and question simply isnt registering with him until you have repeated it multiple times. this is pretty common with autistics. if they are focused on something, like counting, they may not respond right away. attention first, then question. (this would also be the reason he doesnt notice when staff talks to him, and lack of greeting people).

the counting sounds like it could possibly be a stim of some kind, something done to self calm or self soothe. do you notice it increasing when he is in social or stressful situations? if you arent sure, it might be good to chart for a few days and see when the counting is happening most.

the best thing i would suggest for you to do is start learning as much as you can, and love him for who he is. nothing you describe is going to make it impossible for him to lead a happy and fulfilled life. it may not be the life you yourself would want, and it may look quite different to those not on the spectrum, but he is capable of living a complete life of his own choosing.

Hi. Yeah, your son sounds pretty classic for autism to me, but I'm not a doctor. Just AS with a BS in medical technology. You might enjoy watching the movie Temple Grandin, and reading the books she has written.
Please don't worry about your little boy. Raising him will take a few different techniques that that used for other kinds of kids, but he can have a wonderful life. Jessica Kingsley Publishing has several autobiographies by autistic and asperger's people that you might gain insight from. It was reading Thinking In Pictures by Temple Grandin that floored me by showing me that I had Asperger's Syndrome! All my differences and difficulties as a child suddenly made sense.

I definitely second the recommendation that you read Thinking in Pictures, but I do want to point out that Temple overgeneralizes and says some things that are flat-out wrong. Keep your brain on when you read her work, but DEFINITELY read it, it's mostly really great, it's really useful. Oh, and also, stop by Callista's blog, chaoticidealism.livejournal.com.

And it occurs to me that you might be overwhelmed by all the information. I'm probably not helping.

Oh, and avoid everything Autism Speaks says and does. The quick, bare-bones explanation as to why is that most of what they say and do consists of making the public fear autism (saying it's worse than death, saying blatantly false things like that it'll ruin your marriage-- it won't-- and things that are harder to classify as true or false but definitely insulting, like saying it'll make it impossible for you to go anywhere without being humiliated). They solicit donations, but the donations go mostly to research into possible genetic causes and paying their execs hundreds of thousands every year just to stand up and complain about their kids. They don't use very much of their money funding services for currently-living autistics. I recommend avoiding them entirely. Maybe the recommended link is a good thing. So maybe look, but keep your brain on and ask for second opinions.

It's not as scary or complicated as it seems. You'll find your way. But right now I'm guessing you're getting a little overloaded by all this input. Is that correct?

Um, speaking of overgeneralizing - I don't agree with a lot of what Autism Speaks does, but the 100 days kit has a lot of good ideas and resources in it.

Second Callista's blog.

So much on there sounds just like my little boy, although my boy does not speak or draw. He just likes to make geometric shapes with sticks and spoons. Never did pretend play. Has never pointed or looked where I point.
My wife and I have similar backgrounds as your too, both IT geeks and quite good ones at that.

My Autie was also obsessed with numbers and did the same things your son does. She has since became less interested in just counting and more interested in addition, subtraction and patterns. She is now nearly 6. At your sons age she was just beginning to talk but could count into the hundreds. She would jump on her trampoline and count her jumps. Also she counted things on the grocery shelves. Sometimes it was difficult because we were not allowed to leave until she was finished counting or there would be a major meltdown. She still has many "rituals" but they do not interfere with things like the counting could.
I have to agree with the others here, you son sounds Autistic. Stop listening to the media, this is not a horrible or tragic condition. Sometimes things may be more difficult but there is far more acceptance, education and therapy now than there was just a few years ago. I will also recommend Temple Grandin, she is awesome and there is no one better to listen to. She is Autistic and she knows far more that any Psychologist who just "observes".
Enjoy your son !

HiMummy-

I would agree too, that your son sounds like he is on the spectrum. I know this can be really terrifying if you do not understand it. But, the best tool for this is to educate yourself on Autism Spectrum Disorders. Read, read, read, as much as you can. You will learn ways to interact with your son and his communication can get better.

My son was diagnosed at 2.5 yrs of age. He was a very late walker (21mos) We had started physical therapy for him at 1 yr of age (blessing!) The therapists started noticing other things like not pointing, not showing things to others, not playing functionally with toys. So we started speech therapy very early on. My son is now 5.5 and is speaking in full sentences. Most of it makes sense, he can have a small back and forth conversation. He does still get caught up on things like phrases or words that he has heard, but this is fading a little.

Each child with autism is unique, every case is different, so you have to use your mother's instinct as to what is right for your son. I will tell you that I put my son (with hesitation of course) into a special needs pre-k program at 3 yrs of age (we are in the US) and it was the best thing for him. It gave him structure to his day, it increased his initiative to do things for himself, and it increased his interest in learning new things. He got lots of speech therapy while he was there. Of course, you have to do what you think is right.

I would recommend reading books by Dr. Stanley Greenspan. He developed the Floortime method for working with kids on the spectrum. It basically consists of following the child's lead in the things they are interested in, and slowly try to get them interested in other things. The book is rather wordy, but it has some wonderful tools. It will help you learn how to interact with your son in order to get him engaged with you. For instance, if your son is so interested in numbers, then do something silly like putting foam shaped numbers on your head and dancing around. Anything, to get him interested in participating with you.

My son still has his struggles, and it has not been a piece of cake, but with lots of love, patience, and hard work, your son can and will make improvements. Just concentrate on building a good strong relationship with your son, and accept him for who he is. That is the most important thing you can do for his development at this point.

I am sure there is more that I could write, but I think you have gotten lots of info to digest.

I am happy that you have found WP, it can be a valuable resource!

there is nothing wrong with your child possibly needing supports in the classroom. my 5yo AS son has a full time EA with him. he also has different activities in place for some things, like story time he does not(can't) sit on the learning carpet with the other kids. instead he sits at a table with his ea who tries to get him to pay attention. he allowed much more space to do things his way because he can't cope most days with following what the class is doing. they are working on this slowly with him. for example when the teacher is teaching and the kids are all stacking their math blocks he is allowed to play with his because he gets very upset and has meltdowns due to not being able to grasp the abstract concept of mathmatics.
my other son is 4. he did not cope well with starting school in sept so we kept him home until late november. he isn't diagnosed with anything. i beleive he is starting to show symptoms of aspergers exactly the same way my daughter did at that age. he has also been given his own EA because he needs one on one help to keep him on track. unlike his brother though, he is learning alot and catches on quickly when he is kept on task. however, he could not care less about making friends and doesn't get along well with the other kids. when someone does something to him he remembers it each time he sees that person and builds up anger at that person until he eventually lashes out and does something to them. they are now strongly pushing me to get him evaluted for the sole purpose of having him put on medication which i don't want to do. i am hoping he improves in time because at home he is not the same as he is there and i don't want to change that about him. at home he is very snuggly and quiet but i think he may be using me as his comfort item.
my oldest is 11. she also has 'supports' in place at school but no EA. she is allowed to go to the office or library for lunch and recesses because she needs quiet time. she has also until this year been allowed to bring her comfort stuffed animal to class with her and has had many acceptions made for her based on her sensory issues such as having quiet headphones supplied to her for assemblies and not having to change into gym uniforms that irritate her. this year however we are running into issues with her teacher. the teacher refuses to make any special allowances for her sensory issues which is leading to many more meltdowns at school. the teacher does not allow 'toys' in class. the principle has discussed this with her but could not reason with her so her 'toy' comes to school and sits on the secretaries desk in the office where she is supposed to be allowed to be excused to go have it for a minute if she needs to. this teacher refuses to comply with her iep because she 'doesn't believe in aspergers'. we had to get her one day because she was trashing the classroom. this could have easily been avoided... the problem? she got her socks wet outside and took them off because they were wet. then she didn't want to wear her shoes all day without socks. simple solution: don't make her wear them since she's sitting at the desk anyways. but no, the teacher made her put her wet socks and shoes on.