Found out my teenage son has AS
15 Jun 2006, 4:35 pm
Hi, all -
I'm Amanda and am new to this site. Just found out my ds of 16 years has aspergers. Has been diagnosed with learning disabilities and some sort of personality disorder before this dx. Before this dx was known to us, we homeschooled him for two years until finding a great placement in a school for the learning disabled three years ago. His marks have really progressed since then. I'm so grateful!
I believe my husband too probably has a mild case of AS, but he refuses a diagnosis! I asked him once, and he tells me there's absolutely nothing wrong with him. Yet he noticed problems with my son and agreed with the dx. Go figure! I sometimes wonder if I even have a slight case of it. It's just that none of us can seem to hold friendships with many people. Friends that I ever had were close but I always found a reason to end up saying they stabbed me in the back, if you know what I mean. Friends to me are just not worth the trouble. My husband is the same. My son appears to not even be concerned.
The thing is though I and my husband do have some concerns with my ds. I'm wondering if some of you can shed some light.
(1) REFUSAL TO TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF -- My ds has to be reminded by one of us to do things that most people tend to want to do, like take a shower. My ds rarely ever takes a shower unless told to. It just does not bother him, being grimey all the time. He can stink from time to time. It's like he knows he is expected to but just doesn't care. He also does not care about his dress and appearance and will argue with us if we try to tell him he should dress a bit neatly and wear decent clothes to certain occasions.
(2) CLEANING HIS ROOM -- He will clean his room if it gets too crowded. He however has some living habits I am concerned with. My husband is not always on top of him, but I went away on a business trip last year. My ds was with my husband for those two weeks. Ds puts his own air conditioner in. The thing is, he doesn't care about taping the ends against the window, thus allowing bugs in. His room has become full of bugs, and it never bothers him. He gets lots of mosquito bites, and he doesn't care. I closed it properly for him. We also both went away for a week one time this past year, leaving him alone to care for the dog. I wonder if that was a mistake. He let the dog crap all over the house and never cleaned it up. He sat and watched TV with an ungodly smell. I come back and was quite concerned he can easily live like this.
(3) MAKES NO FRIENDS -- I imagined most kids at least have some interest in others at his age. He has none. He doesn't care to make friends and talks about living off us. He didn't seem to even pass puberty, other than getting slightly hostile in his teens. He says he plans on never getting married and living alone. He says girls don't phase him. He says he can't understand why people get so upset over adultery. It's as if other people just don't connect with him. I know it's an AS thing, poor social skills and all, but I've read on this site that many of you do have a desire for friendships and relationships but don't know how to go about it. My ds has no connection to others at all. He doesn't even connect to us appropriately, though he clings to me unusually.
(4) MANAGING MONEY -- I don't know if this is a money management problem or what, and I don't think so, but my ds gets a little allowance. He is expected to spend some of it for certain items. He says that he does, but I find out otherwise. An example: My ds last year was expected to buy at least two new pairs of jeans and shirts. Instead, he comes home and throws in a really grimy pair inside our wash basket, hoping I'd wash them. The smell was horrible, and I believe he has been picking things out of garbage cans around town and wearing them to school. I've gotten called because of his horrible clothes on two occasions. He does not find anything wrong with this. I have confronted him. He says people should leave him alone and let him do and dress the way he wants.
I've tried social stories and lots of other recommended things. I am wondering how he can survive on his own by living this way.
15 Jun 2006, 6:21 pm
Yes, we could easily live like that, no cleaning, no friends, no going out... It usually takes a strong experience in our lives to give us the motivation needed to try to be more social.
_________________
"Whatever you do in life will be insignificant but it's very important that you do it because no one else will."
15 Jun 2006, 7:32 pm
Some of these habits sound alot like my AS son; dirty clothes, not caring about clothes (the occasion or whether they match), dirty room, filthy hair and body, stinking body, stinky dirty shoes...etc. My son gets angry and irritated when I make him take a shower or clean his room and I do have to tell him every single day. He is only 12 so I hope that by the time he is 16 he will do it automatically but I'm not holding my breath! (except when he hasn't had a shower in a couple of days!)
Yes, what is ds? Disabled Son? Disappointing Spawn? Dangerous Seed? (okay, I give up!)
_________________
"Honey, would you buy me some boobles for my 40th b-day?" "No way, they're too expensive. Your own baubles will have to do."
15 Jun 2006, 7:45 pm
First of all it will not get better with time, I was very much like your son (and still am) but I had a pretty abusive upbringing.
Let me address your points:
(1) REFUSAL TO TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF
This could be a sign of depression, also because he is low energy / lazy... and hyper rational (i.e. a little bit of stank never killed anyone, plus it saves mom on her water bill). I am the same way personally when I am living by myself, I usualy have a "3 day limit" and usually I only wear stuff like shorts and t shirts, or I funk up clothes I know are "house clothes". Since I have no one to impress I dont feel the need to shower everyday nor have a clean "pristine" room, my compuer desk routinely fathers dust and my floor dust and dirt... mind you when there's food around I am careful to celan up spills, but there will be minor messes (small amounts of food or crumbs somewhere, or piled up on plates, empty cereal boxes, etc).
(2) CLEANING HIS ROOM
Aspies are hyper rational, they are not sensitive to messes and "bugs" (although why you're son would let bugs into his room on purpose is kinda strange even for an aspie), most do have a cleanlyness thresh-hold, but they are procrastinators / lazy and part of the reason the do not clean up after themselves is because it exhausts them mentally to figure out what needs to go where, usually when I clean up it takes me longer then other people because my mind cannot immediately picture where something should go, I usually have togather stuff into piles and sort through stuff and then attempt to figure out wher everything goes.
(3) MAKES NO FRIENDS
I only passively acquired friends in highschool, I never actively sought out friendship... 1) I hated / disliked people because of the way I had been treated and 2) it was stressful enough just trying to deal with the daily bullying. But in Aspies, some are very "rigid thinkers", in other words they make very sweeping decisions and they are not always correct because they rely on their own "more naive" authority, you don't appreciate what you don't have until decades later when you've reflected on your life and what you have or haven't had in your life. either way some friends would be better then none, also you say he wants to live alone... this could be a dangerous precedent ... for male aspies, as they get older the lack of female companionship is a huge contributor to depression and suicide.
(4) MANAGING MONEY
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... but you expected him to buy new clothes yet he pocketed the money and stole clothes from other peoples dumpsters/garbage? That seems really weird.
Either way do not give up your power or authority, let me tell you why...
When I attempted suicide at 17 and was hospitalized, after my parents started yelling at me to get a job, I totally had them whipped thereafter. They would not even attempt to kick me out of the house and this is where they failed!! !
I needed to sink or swim, my parents allowed set a dangerous precedent and allowed me to develop bad habits of becoming dependent on them. Fact is if you don't RISK kicking him out, if he becomes a dependent and does not gain a social life or go to school, or a job and friends, later he may one day have a realization in his life that he was living in his "autistic trance' (as I like to call them) and he may kill himself for all the time he wasted and all the moments he burned not being aware of what was important in life.
15 Jun 2006, 8:26 pm
Let me address your points:
(1) REFUSAL TO TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF
This could be a sign of depression, also because he is low energy / lazy... and hyper rational (i.e. a little bit of stank never killed anyone, plus it saves mom on her water bill). I am the same way personally when I am living by myself, I usualy have a "3 day limit" and usually I only wear stuff like shorts and t shirts, or I funk up clothes I know are "house clothes". Since I have no one to impress I dont feel the need to shower everyday nor have a clean "pristine" room, my compuer desk routinely fathers dust and my floor dust and dirt... mind you when there's food around I am careful to celan up spills, but there will be minor messes (small amounts of food or crumbs somewhere, or piled up on plates, empty cereal boxes, etc).
(2) CLEANING HIS ROOM
Aspies are hyper rational, they are not sensitive to messes and "bugs" (although why you're son would let bugs into his room on purpose is kinda strange even for an aspie), most do have a cleanlyness thresh-hold, but they are procrastinators / lazy and part of the reason the do not clean up after themselves is because it exhausts them mentally to figure out what needs to go where, usually when I clean up it takes me longer then other people because my mind cannot immediately picture where something should go, I usually have togather stuff into piles and sort through stuff and then attempt to figure out wher everything goes.
(3) MAKES NO FRIENDS
I only passively acquired friends in highschool, I never actively sought out friendship... 1) I hated / disliked people because of the way I had been treated and 2) it was stressful enough just trying to deal with the daily bullying. But in Aspies, some are very "rigid thinkers", in other words they make very sweeping decisions and they are not always correct because they rely on their own "more naive" authority, you don't appreciate what you don't have until decades later when you've reflected on your life and what you have or haven't had in your life. either way some friends would be better then none, also you say he wants to live alone... this could be a dangerous precedent ... for male aspies, as they get older the lack of female companionship is a huge contributor to depression and suicide.
(4) MANAGING MONEY
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... but you expected him to buy new clothes yet he pocketed the money and stole clothes from other peoples dumpsters/garbage? That seems really weird.
Either way do not give up your power or authority, let me tell you why...
When I attempted suicide at 17 and was hospitalized, after my parents started yelling at me to get a job, I totally had them whipped thereafter. They would not even attempt to kick me out of the house and this is where they failed!! !
I needed to sink or swim, my parents allowed set a dangerous precedent and allowed me to develop bad habits of becoming dependent on them. Fact is if you don't RISK kicking him out, if he becomes a dependent and does not gain a social life or go to school, or a job and friends, later he may one day have a realization in his life that he was living in his "autistic trance' (as I like to call them) and he may kill himself for all the time he wasted and all the moments he burned not being aware of what was important in life.
I don't know how this "quote" thing works. I'll quote the whole message and reply here below. I know some segment and quote messages, though I don't know how to do that. Sorry if this gets a bit confusing.
I like most of what you say. It's sort a similar to what his psychologist he sees every weeks has been saying. I have made independence a primary issue with this psych, since he is 16 now and will be 17 in august.
He is schooled. Not mainstream but a private learning-disabled type of school. The school really made progress. That I am really greatful of. He was failing when in grammar school in the public setting. We homeschooled him for two years. He liked that, but I and his psych wanted him to be in a social school setting. We discussed placement and came upon a decision. With that said I do have concerns with this school now. Students there are much low functioning and they don't have college prep type work. My ds wants to go to college. That is something he wants to do. I will not deny him that opportunity. This school though seems to keep its students until 21 years. I have a problem with this. I want him out by 18. I can't seem to get the school to do anything.
Has anyone else here had this kind of thing happen with these types of schools? I'd really like to know what to do. The school says his social skills are not up to par, with what I do not know. School fears he may get disgruntled in college at this point.
For those that do not know, ds is a term that I have come across to mean "diagnosed son." One or two here asked what it means.
Are you really suggesting I make the effort to threaten to throw him out of the house, though? I can't do that. I just can't do that. I have maternal instinct, you know? My husband probably could do that, but I doubt he could.
I am worried about his independent skills. Current psych believes there is passive aggressive behavior going on here. Also said he may be setting us up to live off us for a long time. There were other small things that led the psych to believe this. There is subtle things he does to express negative feelings.
I am also worried about his all consuming special interest. It is extremely weird and to me dangerous. I wrote about it in the main section. Feel free to read.
My ds likes to be seen as weird. It seems to soothe him. People call him odd and he is elated. My ds likes to see psych doctors. He talks on and on about all the negative qualities about himself.
Oh, you mentioned a thing about my son purposely letting bugs into his room. I don't believe that is the case. I think it is more to not wanting to take the time to close the air conditioner panels to the window. He puts the air conditioner in and that is it. It is my concern that bugs dont bother him. There were really small red worm-like bugs boring into his bedclothes. It really scared me, cause I did not know what they were. He did not care. He says he brushed them all off. His floor was littered with moths and stuff.
I went to clean up his room one day and found these things when I vacuumed. I now order him to vacuum and clean his room. I should not have to order this, though.
Thanks for the reply.
15 Jun 2006, 10:30 pm
Generally when I have seen ds it refers to "dear son" like dd (dear daughter) and dh (dear husband).
There could also be co-concurring conditions along with the AS - like depression or OCD or bi-polar. It doesn't necessarily have to be one or the other - although the AS may be the predominant condition. So it may be worth keeping track of some of the other things going on. I think alot of this stuff runs together and it is hard to say - like is it obliviousness or is it inaction due to depression. Not saying that it is anything else though.
16 Jun 2006, 6:28 am
Hi amanda and welcome to the board.
After reading all your posts I find I do have some advice for you. As an aspie myself, for many years I was blind to the NT expectations of natural fashion sense and possibly hygeine as well. I would have found it immensely helpful if my parents had used discipline and training to raise my awareness of these necessities. (I did eventually figure it out, but it took a long time, and i would have been happier with some formal help in the matter.)
Either way do not give up your power or authority...
I give that advice a resounding second; it is the main advantage you have right now in helping your son towards a happy and fulfilling life.
Your son needs to be taught that personal hygiene and a modicum of order are essential life skills, and that they are required, not optional, as long as he is living with you. It is not fair to other members of the household to inflict bugs, dog turds and body odor on everyone. Since your son is apparently blind to these bad habits, you need to use discipline to correct them. I know it's not popular now to discipline children; but if you do not try, nothing will change. You don't have to be harsh or cruel, but you need to be firm if you want things to change.
In other threads you mention that your son has ambitions of college; and that he is obsessed with recording/taping everything that goes on around him. In your place I would make indulgence in his obsession contingent upon meeting whatever standards you feel are reasonable and attainable in the problem areas. In other words: no taping until after a thorough shower every morning, a clean room, another required task completed successfully. I would explain (over and over if necessary) that in order to attend college, he needs to demonstrate acceptable levels of hygiene and order on his own; and this temporary restriction is intended to help him gain those essential skills.
Since your son has already demonstrated that he is unable to follow instructions regarding the use of his money for practical needs, perhaps the portion of his allowance you intend for those purposes should be witheld and managed by you for awhile. Again this can be explained as a temporary situation, intended for his benefit.
I know your son is probably not going to like any of these ideas. But as long as you allow the status quo to continue, you are sending him the message that his behavior is ok as is. Even if it's ok as far as you're concerned, your son will have a very hard time on his own if his habits aren't changed. No one wants to be around, or hire, or rent to a person whose personal hygiene is so bad that they stink.
I wish you the best and I hope you will find the forums here to be of help.
Last edited by Aeriel on 16 Jun 2006, 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
16 Jun 2006, 8:05 am
hiya,
I am currently 16 i will be 17 on august the 14th. The person who you mention sounds quite similar to me. however there are a few main differences.
I live in fostercare and as such i don't have the option not to cope. this has advantages (at least to the people around me) and disadvantages.
I have spent the last 2/3 years in complete hyperdrive mode. And now i am biggining to pay the price. Yes for a while i was resonably succsesfull, and for a while i far exceeded the normal expectations of someone my age. But on the other hand how i am feeling now and how i am coping now is very different.
I am about to moved into supported living and when i try to raise to people my concerns they are all to quick to dismiss them. To complicate matters even further i am not even so sure of my issues!
Two issues i can highlight are sound sensitivity. the more i am being me, and not my shadow i have been amazed at how much sounds are annoying me. I am also only just relising ways they have always botherd me, but i had not relised that this is what it was.
Right now i have my headphones in because i cannot stand the noise of this keyboard. and i have dicided that as soon as possible i will be sorting myself out with all plastic plates because the sounds of crokery splits my head.
By what you have said so far, and by your very presense here you have and are really trying for your son.
I respect you for that, but all i can say is that although he may oneday appear to be coping infornt of you. you need to look at what is happaning in the background.
jammie
_________________
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$jammie = $lion."sheepy and my comforts";
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16 Jun 2006, 1:57 pm
It sounds like your son could perhaps benefit from a move to a mainstream school. He is entitled to his education in the LRE available.
I've seen ds, dd, dh, to always mean "dear" whatever also.
Your son may be picking up on things from lower or differently functioning peers in his current school setting. He needs to be mainstreamed to have that peer group as his mentoring and social group. He may not do great, but probably better than where he is.
My son was 10 when dx'd. He's 11 now. Until he was 9, my husband had to give him a shower or he'd just smell. Just around the time of the dx, our son reached that point where he wanted privacy in the bathroom, and so he started showering nightly himself.
His room is another issue. The trains - perfect. Shoes - lined up. Cars and trucks - in a row. Behind his bureaus?? Hmmm...dirty laundry, spoons, cups, empty soda cans, half empty popcorn bags, BUG HEAVEN. And it doesn't phase him. Not even when he has to shake one out of his shoe before putting it on. Now we have sticky traps lined up so they don't get out of his room.
We pick our battles. When our son is out for 2-3 hours, we pull out the bureau and fumigate.
I'm hoping this improves before he needs to live on his own.
He is learning how to cook, can set and undo the table, fill and empty the dishwasher, and run the lawn mower. We are slowly working on life skills, so that if we aren't here, he can manage. Even if we are, he needs to be his own man someday.
Start slow, but start.
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Mean what you say, say what you mean -
The new golden rule in our household!
http://asdgestalt.com An Autism and psychology discussion forum.
17 Jun 2006, 3:19 pm
I've seen ds, dd, dh, to always mean "dear" whatever also.
Your son may be picking up on things from lower or differently functioning peers in his current school setting. He needs to be mainstreamed to have that peer group as his mentoring and social group. He may not do great, but probably better than where he is.
My son was 10 when dx'd. He's 11 now. Until he was 9, my husband had to give him a shower or he'd just smell. Just around the time of the dx, our son reached that point where he wanted privacy in the bathroom, and so he started showering nightly himself.
His room is another issue. The trains - perfect. Shoes - lined up. Cars and trucks - in a row. Behind his bureaus?? Hmmm...dirty laundry, spoons, cups, empty soda cans, half empty popcorn bags, BUG HEAVEN. And it doesn't phase him. Not even when he has to shake one out of his shoe before putting it on. Now we have sticky traps lined up so they don't get out of his room.
We pick our battles. When our son is out for 2-3 hours, we pull out the bureau and fumigate.
I'm hoping this improves before he needs to live on his own.
He is learning how to cook, can set and undo the table, fill and empty the dishwasher, and run the lawn mower. We are slowly working on life skills, so that if we aren't here, he can manage. Even if we are, he needs to be his own man someday.
Start slow, but start.
Wow! It sounds like your son is identical to mine. I really can sympathize with the food thing. He doesn't leave stuff around on his floor like that, but he used to horde food in his room. I'd find a lot of things in there that he should not have been eating. He sometimes gets cravings, I guess I can call them cravings, for really odd food stuffs, things like cake icings, salty soup mixtures before being cooked. He's ate a whole jar of bacon bits on me. Has tried to sneak things into our shop carts at the supermarket that he likes. So forth.
About four years ago I find a hole in his boxspring to his mattress set. I was going to turn the mattress over, then I was like, 'What the ... ?' I saw empty potato chip bags, a couple of things he took out of my cabinet to eat. All kinds of stuff was in there. I'll tell you, though, that time I was really annoyed and I totally flipped my lid at him. Maybe I shouldn't have, but it just went too far then. He hasn't done that since, though. He uses the garbage properly. Just doesn't like to remove the garbage unless we tell him to. He lets it get high until things fall on the floor. Then he leaves the stuff there. He drops things off the counter by mistake such as a cup or fork or something and he refuses to pick those up. He just leaves things drop and tells me when I ask him to pick it up, 'Stuff doesn't belong where I can drop it.' He does pick up though when I tell him to.
I will say that he's not a bad kid. Just selfish but at times appears to have no real sense of self. He will do a lot for me when asked, though gives a bit of lip but he does it. My husband however I just don't know what it is. He will argue and refuse a lot of what he says. Do you have that kind of stuff, with your husband and all going on with your son? My husband is more aspie than I am I think, not diagnosed but I suspect.
Do you get the impression that your ds tries to 'teach you' how to live though he does not always have a good method of living himself? I get that impression. I don't know. I may be exaggerating but it just seems like that.
As far as the schooling is concerned, I won't go into details about public school. That led to a two yr nightmare about six years back. I will just say that I would not want to go into that again. I dont want the meltdowns and stuff to come back. It wasn't my ds fault either, cause the school, the students and the teachers, that is how bad it was, treated him horribly. Students used to blame him for things and the teachers began punishing him. I was brought up thinking that the teachers were to be respected and I listened. I began punishing him for things that were not even his fault. I did not find out what was really going on until one of the aides saw an incident and came to my door personally. It led to a fighting incident that almost got him locked up in some sort of juvenile delinquent center. I don't want this. I'd just rather keep him where he is at.
Thanks for this reply. I do sympathize a lot with what you're saying.
11 Jul 2006, 2:25 pm
Let me address your points:
I agree with you that it is a sign of depression. When I read about Asperger's Symdrome Teenagers particular the severe cases are very prone to depression
(1) REFUSAL TO TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF
This could be a sign of depression, also because he is low energy / lazy... and hyper rational (i.e. a little bit of stank never killed anyone, plus it saves mom on her water bill). I am the same way personally when I am living by myself, I usualy have a "3 day limit" and usually I only wear stuff like shorts and t shirts, or I funk up clothes I know are "house clothes". Since I have no one to impress I dont feel the need to shower everyday nor have a clean "pristine" room, my compuer desk routinely fathers dust and my floor dust and dirt... mind you when there's food around I am careful to celan up spills, but there will be minor messes (small amounts of food or crumbs somewhere, or piled up on plates, empty cereal boxes, etc).
(2) CLEANING HIS ROOM
Aspies are hyper rational, they are not sensitive to messes and "bugs" (although why you're son would let bugs into his room on purpose is kinda strange even for an aspie), most do have a cleanlyness thresh-hold, but they are procrastinators / lazy and part of the reason the do not clean up after themselves is because it exhausts them mentally to figure out what needs to go where, usually when I clean up it takes me longer then other people because my mind cannot immediately picture where something should go, I usually have togather stuff into piles and sort through stuff and then attempt to figure out wher everything goes.
(3) MAKES NO FRIENDS
I only passively acquired friends in highschool, I never actively sought out friendship... 1) I hated / disliked people because of the way I had been treated and 2) it was stressful enough just trying to deal with the daily bullying. But in Aspies, some are very "rigid thinkers", in other words they make very sweeping decisions and they are not always correct because they rely on their own "more naive" authority, you don't appreciate what you don't have until decades later when you've reflected on your life and what you have or haven't had in your life. either way some friends would be better then none, also you say he wants to live alone... this could be a dangerous precedent ... for male aspies, as they get older the lack of female companionship is a huge contributor to depression and suicide.
(4) MANAGING MONEY
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... but you expected him to buy new clothes yet he pocketed the money and stole clothes from other peoples dumpsters/garbage? That seems really weird.
Either way do not give up your power or authority, let me tell you why...
When I attempted suicide at 17 and was hospitalized, after my parents started yelling at me to get a job, I totally had them whipped thereafter. They would not even attempt to kick me out of the house and this is where they failed!! !
I needed to sink or swim, my parents allowed set a dangerous precedent and allowed me to develop bad habits of becoming dependent on them. Fact is if you don't RISK kicking him out, if he becomes a dependent and does not gain a social life or go to school, or a job and friends, later he may one day have a realization in his life that he was living in his "autistic trance' (as I like to call them) and he may kill himself for all the time he wasted and all the moments he burned not being aware of what was important in life.
11 Jul 2006, 7:08 pm
He sounds just like my husband! I would also agree that it may have something to do with depression, because my husband is depressed. He dresses very badly when he's not working, has very poor manners, and doesn't take good care of himself. I basically ignore it, because I'm not his mother and have better things to do with my time.
But since you are his mother, that puts you in a good position. So I hope that you do help him. I know that his future wife will appreciate it.
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