Hyperactivity in severe NLD or Asperger

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My daughter has 40 points between her verbal IQ & performance IQ (severe nonverbal elarning disorder) which is undiagnosed as over here it's practically unheard of. I have had contact with an American friend who has a son with NLD & Aspergers (diagnosed) who has 30 points between these IQs & she was told when he was diagnosed that severe NLD & lack of eye contact IS Aspergers. Is a certain degree of hyperactivity common in Asperger Syndrome? My daughter is beginning to show certain amount of this (although we would never medicate with Ritalin type medication as think it would affect her anxiety levels too much. Would be interested to hear anyones' views on all this.

Hello Mullion

My GP hadn't heard of NLD either.

Not sure that this will be too helpful, but Dr Lorna Wing, who seems to be the guru in UK terms, considers that NLD/NVLD is AS. The National Autistic Society can send you her paper (free) on spectrum labels and categories.

I found it useful, though I think that the whole area of labelling is in such a mess because the 'experts' are only just waking up to the fact that there are many, many more manifestations (i.e. 'hidden') of the autistic spectrum than they've thought until now. Only yesterday the BBC news site ran this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5174144.stm

From what I've read ADD/ADHD are often concomitants of the spectrum. Maybe it'll turn out that they ARE 'entry-level' spectrum!!

Speaking personally, hyperactivity is connected with perseverations. That is, I'll whiz around doing stuff and putting loads of energy in if it's connected to whatever I'm interested in at the time. Also, if I'm not really interested in something I'll get distracted very easily, fidget and foot tap like mad. I imagine that this would have looked like ADD/ADHD when I was a child, and nowadays I can control it all much better. Of course, back then, they hadn't yet pathologised it!

UK seems to be at the opposite spectrum of meds. In the US, everyone gets a diagnosis....
Not quite true, but it does seem that any kid that is disruptive in school gets a suggestion for counseling, read evaluation of meds, to make things less disruptive.
As more is coming out on AS, more people are considering the diagnosis. As more kids are evaluated, we are coming to realize that there is a spectrum of the disorder, with some kids just kindof different, some having problems with friends, and some severely impaired.
ADD may be a part of it.
At one level any of us can focus better with a little stimulant on board, and the use of stimulants can help a kid do better in school. OTOH, most kids whom are labeled ADD or ADHD just need more help focusing in school with better mental/physical hygiene: less TV, better diet and sleep habits, etc.

ADD & ADHD are often together with AS, as are epilepsy, thyroid, OCD, dietary intolerances, either with AS or run in the families genetics. I'm not hyperactive myself, my brother was said to be hyper as a child, but my Mum just ignored other people saying that. I'm 32, I've had a lot of jobs and I'm working casually atm, my brother is 28 and has his own business.

(em jumps up and down arm in the air) I am NVLD - my Verbal 118, Performance is 92.

I saw Michelle Garnett who worked with Tony Attwood - she said I am an Asperger Verbaliser.

I quote from her email
"One of my questions was “I have been wondering if Non-Verbal Learning Disability is a secondary diagnosis..”

(as I had read in one of Liane Holliday-Wiley’s books at the back NVLD was listed as one of many secondary diagnosis for people with AS)

Michelle explains:
“From my reading and talking to experts my understanding is that NVLD, Semantic-Pragmatic Language Disorder and Asperger’s Syndrome are more similar than they are different and are most likely the same disorder described by three different groups of specialists, Occupational Therapists, Speech Pathologists and Psychologists respectively.”

Michelle and Tony also go into describing AS visualisers and verbalisers (it is on his website under Publications) (I can't bring it up on my computer as the lhs of that site doesn't come up properly). But I remember that it is the visualisers have the higher performance IQ score and lower verbal one, the verbalisers have the higher verbal one, lower performance score.

My personal point of view or understanding of it is they are all relatively "new" diagnoses eg AS only got into the DSM IV in 1994.

Therefore the "experts" are still defining the diagnoses, and from my reading it appears that in the US they have a tendency to be on the side of more "labels" if that makes any sense to you.

The difficulty is the people who have to live with the diagnosis are the ones living in the real world and have to seek help from other sources apart from the diagnosing professional at some point.

This is where you have to advocate for yourself to explain it to people at Social Security and in my case job agencies, Technical College etc. I find in the real world, NVLD describes me more accurately (and is the more useful diagnosis) to people as there is a stereotype of Aspies being visual.

Also when I realised I had NVLD that was sort of a relief, but then when I got the AS diagnosis, I felt less alone, as it was obvious that there are people in my immediate and extended family with traits or at the very least OCD, Anxiety and Depression. I just stand out a bit as I'm NVLD I have different strengths from other relatives for example.

By reading books specifically on NVLD has been a great help to me in further refining my coping strategies and understanding where my anxieties come from.

For example I ensure I talk my way through leaving the house and locking up, I am less likely to get anxious that I've forgotten something.

My son was first diagnosed ADHD (even though he is the extreme opposite of hyperactive) and Anxiety disorder. Then it was found that he had a 22 point difference between his verbal and nonverbal/performance IQ. This suggested a NVLD. When seen by a child psychologist, these along with his social skills issues, fine/gross motor skills difficulties, hypersensitivity to everything, and his finger flapping when excited led to the diagnosis of AS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_ ... g_disorder

NVLD, in most articles I've read, shares the same criteria for AS pretty much. The above link describes my son exactly, just as AS sites do. Many feel that they are the same or at least side by side on the spectrum.

my son showed his AS when he started taking meds for ADD/ADHD.. and the schools intervine here in the states because the schools pay for the diagnosis.. and we have a law in this country called No Child left behind.. not that its done much good for kids But its the threat that school districts hear to make sure that no child is left un taught.. my Dr said that a lot of kids do not have a diagnosis of AS until meds for ADD/Adhd are given and it brings so many more to the surface.. my son is super hyper... and without the meds he has a hard time learning in school. it did make the difference fro him.

Because the UK have centralized medicine it takes a great deal more to get an APPT for the diagnosis.. where here in the states we pay for most of our health insurance so there is less of a waiting time for the DX.. i have herard for years from my friends in the UK that its hard to even get appts for Drs... I was in a single parents support group on line for 5 years based from the UK.. And a wonderful person there who has a son with AS was the person who made me open my eyes to the whole disorder..

C

What we initially thought was ADHD/impulsive is actually AS for our son. As we found out through our own trial-and-error, he can sit for long times and be very focused with few fidgets as long as he's in his own, familiar, comfortable environment.

Move him to a visually stimulating and noisy atmosphere (grocery store, schoolroom) and he begins to have trouble screening out the noise and the stimulants. He starts getting *impulsive* - he will leave which we now know is his self-preservation and he'll get hyper from all the visual stimulants.

He was on ADHD meds but we've made some lifestyle changes and he's not all that different than when on meds - well, he has gained weight. But, he still gets hyper and impulsive in the right environment. We've learned more about AS and can help him control it better now.

Hey so far I am just NVLD too (though I still think I am asperger's, the way they dxed me was totally wrong and I think if I had a phycatrist I would either be dxed AS or PDDNOS) and I was quite hyper as a kid (I loved bouncing, bouncing, bouncing lol ) And I don't know what my IQs are though I think they just gave me a lower # then I really am when I got tested as a kid. Well anyway I am normally the unofficial official parent helper aspie but I think I can be the un.... NVLDpie too so feel free to PM me with any other questions you may have .

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