He thinks I'm judging him

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I need some suggestions if any on how best to deal with whats been going on lately, and it's escalating. My son J tells people that I'm ashamed of him, I'm cross with him or I'm criticizing him.
I don't know what to do. I love his uniqueness, but I can often see that others (particularly strangers do not) Apparently I can't tell him that his behavior was inappropriate without him thinking that I'm angry, ashamed or being judgmental.

Some examples;
Yesterday after school, I was chatting to another mum of another asd child in the school yard. A friends slightly older high school aged child approached me to ask if I'd seen his mother any where in the school yet. I told him no I hadn't. Then my son spots him and in a very loud excited voice J says " why hello acne face!" (We hadn't seen this boy in a while, he is the older brother of J's x best friend. J's x best friend is also on the spectrum The boy in question is starting to go threw puberty so he does have a little bit of acne, that he hadn't had last time we seen him) I immediately told J that what he said was rude and that he needed to apologize. J couldn't understand why? I explained to him that even though D had said "nah that ok" he's also hung his head down and would have been very embarrassed and hurt. J eventually said sorry to D, but then refused to talk or look at me in the car on the way home. When we got home I asked his "are you upset"? He said "No I'm angry" Apparently when I tell him he has said something rude and tell him to apologize, most people say that's ok. I tried to explain to him they are only saying that because they know him personally and know that he wouldn't deliberately be rude and they know he has an asd so they are making allowances. He doesn't believe me.

Other times have happened in the supermarket, he will talk non stop at either the check out chick or the other customers in line. Sometimes telling them personal family stuff, sometimes criticizing their choice of purchase, some times criticizing their parenting skills etc. Most people will chat back and appear ok for the first few sec's, but he goes on and on getting more and more intense. So when I tell him thats enough now, or if I apologize for him (usually he has said something not so nice but honest) he thinks I am ashamed of him. I can tell by the other peoples body language that had I not been standing right there they probably would have told him to p!$$ off.

Another thing I'll ask is how do you all let strangers know your child isn't deliberately being a rude smarty pants, he has an asd or he can't help it?

What do I do?? Help please.

Hi there. I'm not a parent, but I may have some ideas (how useful they are remains to be seen).

Your sig says J is 12. He's around the age where kids sometimes start to pull away from their parents, be they AS or NT. (Or, even if he doesn't really want to, maybe he's being pressured to do so, subtly or not.)

With that being said, his reactions to what you say make perfect sense: he may be starting to resent being told what to do for ANY reason. Pair that with his ASD-related issues, and you've got the reactions you described.

At his age, maybe you should stop correcting him when he's inadvertently rude. He may not start to understand that strangers don't like it unless he receives disapproval from them instead of his mother. Your correcting him translates into "Mom doesn't like/love me anymore" or "She's treating me like a baby"; if a stranger does it, he eventually may understand it's the behavior instead of him because it obviously isn't personal coming from someone who doesn't know him.

As harsh as it sounds, maybe that's exactly what needs to happen.

Again, I'm not a parent, so I could be totally off-base here.



Just say it, exactly like that. People with either accept it, or they won't. With some, no matter how you put it, they'll dismiss it as an "excuse" for bad behavior.

Hope this helps.

I think it's important for your child's sense of dignity to take him aside when he does or says inappropriate things. Correcting him publically could be quite humiliating, especially because for him, he's just describing the world as he sees it, so he probably has no idea that he's being inappropriate. I have not known kids with Asperger's or Autism to be intentionally cruel to other kids, but they will often mimic stuff they've heard other kids say, and they're the ones who seem to get caught, because the other kids are clever enough to be rude when there are no witnesses, whereas our kids sometimes just blurt things out without regard for who's around them. The rules of social interaction often seem confusing to them because context is so important. When my son started swearing in front of me, he could not understand why those words were inappropriate to use when speaking to Mum, but were fine when you were just with your mates. The context thing seems to be the undoing of many kids with Aspergers. There's so many things that we just get intuitively which need to be explained in detail to someone with Asperger's. The same thing applies for "sayings" we use. Saying stuff like "you better pull your socks up if you want to pass that subject" is just a wierd thing to say! My son would look at his bare feet and say "what the heck are you talking about??" and think I'd lost the plot completely. I don't know about your son, but I found that my son was honest to a fault. If I got my hair cut differently, like when I got the shaggy black and red cut a couple of years ago and I thought it looked great, my son looked at me quizzically and said "Mum, you really need to brush your hair, it looks really messy". Having told him he looks great when his hair is brushed and his face is washed, he had a hard time understanding why I'd pay good money to get my hair looking "messed up". Oh my goodness, how they challenge us to think outside the square.. I really love it! You'll always get an honest opinion, but you rarely get empathy!

Thanks for the responses.

I had a chat with J this morning before he headed off for school and when he was in a much better mood.
I had to tell him that D the boy he offended had actually told his mother that had J been his own age he would have decked him for his comment. Then I had to explain to him, that having an asd often means that even though he is usually correct his timing with his comments isn't appropriate.
He gave me that puppy head tilt which is so cute, then he asked me what I meant. He had no idea that he isn't always socially appropriate and that he often miss's or miss understands social cues. I know this is something we are going to have to continue working on and I will be asking family to actually tell him them selves when he has said or done something inappropriate, so that it's not always coming from me.

The whole incident yesterday scares the crap out of me because he is due to go to high school next year and if he said that to another kid he may actually get hit because of it. Hmmm he even acknowledged that yes that could be an issue and he would still wonder why they hit him because he hadn't lied the kid did have pimples.

I think he may have taken more in this morning than he has at any other time. He said to me"mum I get it now". When I asked him why he got it now and not yesterday, he said "because I know have evidence".

Everything that comes out of my mouth is a insult normally. I realize sometimes afterwards but most of the time its just a miscalculation ... as always. My mother would actually scold me for most of the choices I made and I'd always feel bad over it because I thought I was doing okay at the time. I'm still the same, even in my "old" age. What I would have found more ideal, would have been her explaining to me what I tend to do when I speak to people, and something like, "your insulting people, so if you insult people I'm going to pinch you softly". Something along those lines would have been more helpful than. "I can't believe you said that, you can't say that, go apologize." About every time we went outside ...

Constantly under minding his decisions isn't a good thing (even if you don't see it that way). You may also be thinking "I'm just correcting him", but correcting someone is usually something you do when its on purpose; the result being they usually learn something. On the other hand I've been doing it for 26 years and I'm still learning and messing up every time I talk to people. You need to take a lot less of a "teaching" approach (perhaps). What would have been helpful for me when I was younger was to just have that lawyer you see in the movies next to me ready to dart out and take over the conversation or a conversation coach of some type standing near me.

Keep in mind, I've been laid off/fired from numerous jobs (unfortunately) due to my tongue/actions that just made someone extremely angry. I also have a unique inability to defend my actions. But after something happens the last thing I want to hear after a failure is, "you failed!" .. from a loved one. Perhaps you are insulted by this whole paragraph, and perhaps thats the norm for me (I apologize if thats the case.). Your son just sounded sort of similar, but one thing I can tell you is that I limit all contact with people due to this, and I don't talk to people while I'm out/I live alone. My most recent job I lost because they tried to rely on me for tasks dealing with the big bosses (I'm very intelligent), but they didn't quite understand that intelligence doesn't translate to ambassador.

*shrugs* .. Just my insight.


Edit : Read your second post. Thats good. Note : I have been decked a few times but was never sure why.

I would definitely take him aside - when there is no current issue pending - and talk about it. You might use this case as an example. Ask him how he would like to handle it. Appeal to his rational, rule oriented side. Negotiate it in advance and put it into practice often. If he can learn to view you more like his NT translator, he may take to the social insights a bit more easily.

I'm wondering... Your son is older than mine... so he might be able to understand a "safety word". Some word that wouldn't normally come up in conversation that you can say to let him know that 1) he is saying/said something in appropriate, and that 2) he should maybe apologize. In this way, no one else knows that you're correcting him per se, and it gives him a non-judgmental warning to correct the situation.

This. But also:

-Don't assume that you know what was appropriate better than your child does. My relationships with all my close friends would lead other people to think I am being rude or inappropriate, but the nature of my relationships makes that perfectly acceptable. For all you know, this particular friend might always greet him with hello smellybutt, or have said something equally offensive to him earlier in the day which makes it entirely reasonable to retaliate.

-It isn't really any of your business anyway. If other people don't like the way that your son behaves around them (particularly if they are his peers)it's up to them to negotiate how they want to be treated. I am not receptive to third parties telling me how I should treat them.

It is very rare for my son to be reprimanded at all let alone in public.
It only played out the way it did because he surprised me and I acted without thinking. Usually I will wait to offer advise once we are clear of bystanders and he is in a calm place.
My son is so super sensitive, even if I look tired he thinks I'm cross with him.

The kid "D" from the school yard incident is the older brother of a child my son used to play with. Neither my son or myself have seen D in months, he goes to high school, my son primary school. They don't have the sort of friendly smart arse banter Loiuse18 talks about. D in the past has tolerated J because, J is on the spectrum as is D's younger brother.

As J's parent I feel it IS my business to steer him in the right direction, this does not mean that I publicly correct him for any and every thing. The school yard public correction was a very rare occurrence. I can't even talk to J in private because he takes even a suggestion as a huge criticism.

You reprimanded him in public when his intentions/sentiments were likely benign. Most people geneally become embarrassed and upset when they are reprimanded in public over miscommunicated sentiments. I would just apologize for him and save the reprimands for private.

Reasons he might have said what he did:
He may have heard the term applied elsehwere in a friendly situation.
He may not think there is anything wrong or stigmatizing about acne.
He may have thought it a good nickname given "Baby Face" "Scar Face"and so on from the movies.



Sometimes it's good for other people to tell him to piss off. My brother does not have AS but used to be a bit lacking in the manners department as he felt there was nothing wrong with stating the truth in a factual way, not apologizing when he didn't mean it, and such. That all ended when some guy socked him in the face for not watching his mouth.

He's actually been quite considerate and polite since. Sometimes people just have to learn things the hard way even if it hurts a little. Let the people in line get mad at him and then when he gets upset that they got mad at him, you can explain to him why they were mad if he wishes.



I think it's important for family to try to distinguish whether or not he's being deliberately rude before acting or judging him but strangers come and go and he is just going to have to learn to moderate himself in public when interacting with them. You can't follow him around all of his life apologizing for him. You also don't want to present yourself as his adversary. I think it'd be better to step back on some occasions and just be there for him when he stumbles.For example if he gets reprimanded by a strangers and comes crying to you about it you might just say "Well hun, I guess he felt you were being impolite," or "Well, that's what happens when you treat people that way."

I agree with private correction, but you might also pose it as a question "Why would you say something like that" without feeling and see how he responds. It still shocks me as an adult how people talk to each other. As a child observing such exchanges I did not always recognize that the parties involved had a more intimate relationship than I did with either of them - that is what tends to make what would be insults more acceptable or private jokes I suppose. He may sincerely have thought it was funny instead of hurtful which could have been why he responded so strongly to you.

There is a lot to do with nuance that we really don't grasp. At 38 I still have trouble with it. And it's still something I have trouble explaining with words when it happens.

I have to disagree about it being your business - as his primary advocate and parent, I think it is your concern as do you. I would come unglued if someone reprimanded my child without my permission.

I'm not a parent, but for whatever worth it has: Could you make the issue more clearly about describing the reactions that you see in other people, that he may not. The more specific you can be about what physically you see the other people that shows you they are uncomfortable the more helpful it is. Kind of like how you explain in the first case, maybe for the second going over (later in private) that you see other people start to shift their weight from one foot to another or they angle their body away while having a conversation, their replies are getting shorter or using specific phrases to try and get out of a conversation etc.

Also at some point I think it should become less you telling him that something was rude and it must be corrected, and just reminding him of how you are seeing other people react. The decision of what to say, when to stop, wither to apologize, what level of offensive/insulting is appropriate should ultimately be his. Those important evaluations to be able to make, and they take practice, if you make the decision you take away that practice.

Learning a list of phrases or topics that makes people uncomfortable only has a limited value because what is appropriate in this sense changes so quickly with who you are with or what situation you are in. Starting to put together the warning sings of uncomfortable people is really valuable because they are far more universal. It's like giving a man a fish and teaching a man to fish.

Middle & highschool can be a chaotic, violent place, being kind and careful not to offend other people won't always be the right answer. As a parent that might be hard to accept, but thinking back to your highschool days, you must recognize this is true. That sounded like an inappropriate situation to insult another kid by calling him acne-face, yet don't assume that situation doesn't exist.

I don't know if it's just me, but someone saying that ____ should never be said or that giving some rule of behaviour, are very serious. It's like rules are stored somewhere else and considered differently from all other advice. I was told once the rule that you never drink before noon except during play-off hockey, It took me a long time to stop checking my watch while out for lunch with other people my age and they ordered drinks. Even still my first instinct is to check the time, but it annoys people. Try to be clear that everything has it's exceptions and it's own logic. Things filled under the category social rules - Just accept that they are true can get very dangerous.

The best way to correct a person with ASD like myself is do what my mom has always done
if that was me and my mom in that situation...the correction would have gone like this

Mom: I heard what you called D. Is there a reason you called him yellow acne face??
me: shrugs...I dont know
Mom: well acne is part of puberty as the body adjusts to adulthood, but people who have acne can be very sensitive to their changing appearances and pointing that out can make them feel embarrased.
me: why??
mom: because when people are self conscous about something...that something lowers thier self esteem and when others point it out, it confirms what they feel negitive about themselves to be true. So when you see something about someone that is unattactive...they probably know that is unatractive all too well and it makes them feel bad about themselves. So when you see something unattractive about someone then find something that is atractive about them...and mention that instead which will make them feel better about themselves.
me: ok

as far as anoying strangers in the store....it is best to discuss rules of conduct in a store and why before going in the store.
Always explain why because kids as well as some adults with ASD's need to know why a rule exist in order to understand why it is important to follow it.

btw you are saint about the store thing. My mom hates being embarrased by us in the store. There has been more than one occasion, she dropped everything in the store...took us out of the store and went home. But a few times of that we knew she meant it when she said...if you act up in the store, we will leave right then and there. She always let us pick out things we want in the store, so if we act out we did not get it.
However on the occasions that I did not know what I said or did was wrong...and she knew that, she would just descretely poke me in the side and I knew this meant to shut up. Then she would explain to me why the things I said was offensive or otherwise inappropeate.

Anyway, I hope I could help.

Mom used to tell me to shut up and that was a hint I was making her mad and I wouldn't understand why she acted that way. Then after she left, she would explain it to me and tell me she said that only because I was getting loud and drawing attention.

When we are in a shop I don't want to tell him to shut up, most of what he is talking about is perfectly harmless, and often very interesting. If it's just him talking at someone a hundred miles an hour, it wont kill them to have to put up with being talked at for the next few minutes. Most people are okay about this any way, it's just the odd few that are not so nice or as tolerant. Or it's when he starts to get personal.

At the moment it's just any kind of advice or what he perceives as a reprimand he can't tolerate. Sometimes I don't even say anything at all, I think he may be picking up on other peoples ques in a very small way and then assuming I to am annoyed. Often I am annoyed, not with him, with either a rude check out chick, or someone made a smart arse comment which he clearly didn't understand and then they laugh about it in front of him, this truly piss's me off. It's also him needing everyone to like him and being perfect all the time. I some how need to teach him, it's okay not to be perfect and not every one is liked by others and there is nothing he can do to change this, it's just a fact of life.

^^ This! ^^ (the bolded part) When asking someone about their actions, word choice is the key. "Why?" is confrontational; it's pretty much an equivalent of "what were you thinking?". It makes the askee feel defensive and on the spot. Your decision to instead ask "is there a reason?" was great! It demands an answer which is just that, a reason.

It's different than asking "why" in response to a statement, especially when the asker is an aspie, who may be genuinely interested in an explanation.