Need help with NT 5 year old son

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I'm an aspie. My oldest son (14) has ADHD and social anxiety. My middle son (11) has aspergers and anxiety, they say also ADD. My daughter (9) has peculiar ticks but doesn't appear to have anything other than ticks she inherited from her father (testing needs to be done I suppose). My step-daughter (9) was thought to have autism when she was 2 because she was extremely intelligent and didn't start talking until 2-1/2 years old (but she hasn't been quiet for a moment since - lol)... still, she excels in math way beyond grade level and exhibits some AS behavior, but I wouldn't pressure her mother to diagnose her because she's doing perfectly okay at the moment. My youngest son (5) is currently in Kindergarten and that's who I want to talk about. As you can see we have a full house and, as an aspie, I have a lot of responsibilities to stay on top of, so maybe this information will help you get a better picture to give advice as I'm laying out my problem.

My five year old behaves perfectly in school. He's an angel. His teacher adores him because he always listens, he so smart, he follows the rules, he doesn't act out, and he gets along and manages conflict very well. But when he gets home, he says very nasty things (eg. "I hate you", "I want my brother to be dead", "I want out of this family", "You're the worst parent", "You're a jerk", "I'm going to break this", etc.), breaks the rules and just refuses to join our family. I don't spank but my husband does and we've noticed that spanking does nothing for this child. He just gets more angry and resentful. My standard discipline is the Consequences Jar and it works fantastic for the rest of the kids so we had him taking consequences for rule breaking... and that didn't solve the problem. We tried Time Outs, Take-aways, I've calmly explained to him how his rule breaking is wrong and received very positive and logical answers from him on why he should be punished but he still balks at the punishment... I mean, it just keeps getting worse and worse. And I know he knows how to behave because he's perfect at school!

Before my mother-in-law's stroke and onset of dementia, she told me that my son acts identical to how his dad acted. I see a lot of the same tendencies in temper, not just with my husband but also with my father-in-law. The three of them are like steps. My in-laws solved the attitude problem with my husband by spanking him daily and often and hard. This only taught my husband to fear his parents. We'd rather have respect and love than fear of being beaten. Even though spanking does nothing for him, I'm sure beating a person so much like that would definitely damage them, as well as dampen the defiance. We just don't care to go down that road for reasons that are obvious. There's got to be a better way.

He's my fourth child so, I mean, know how to parent... this isn't my first rodeo. The others are coming along nicely, even with diagnoses and quirks. They are a family and a tight-knit group. I've taught my kids that I'm not going to be here forever so they need to really bond with each other and keep that bond strong. That will insure that they'll never be alone or go without in life... they will always have each other. When my youngest was born, they welcomed him in enthusiastically and with great love. They've never excluded him or treated him differently. He fights with his brothers but adores his sisters. I've tried talking simply, directly and calmly with him. My husband and I, separately and together, have explained to him the hurtfulness of his lashing out. And, again, I know he understands because he understands during the discussions and he makes the better choices at school... just never at home.

I just don't know what to do with this kid. Any thoughts?

Sure he isn't AS? That level of defiance could come from a strong beleif that the rules either make no sense or are not fair. And we see a lot of AS kids who hold it together at school then release at home.

Or he could just be rebellious because he think other families have something wonderful his doesn't (an illusion, but lots of kids at that age fall for it).

Or he's a child full of negative energy (for whatever reason) and he holds it together at school because he doens't feel safe letting any of it out, and then releases it home because you'll love him anyway.

The later actually being quite common with 5 year olds, now that I think about it.

I would investigate the environment and social life at school first, I think. He may feel pressure to conform socially, etc., that he doesn't fully understand and / or stressed by. Young boys are competitive, and this could actually be normal. Young kids also gain social status via the cool things their family members do, and if your family comes accross as odd to the other kids, your son may be very aware of what they think, and may be aware that it can negatively affect the potential for friendships (sorry to be blunt about that, but we've had to accept it as a family and you can't help your child with what you aren't willing to see).

See what happens if you give him a way to decompress and release negative energy when he first comes home, telling him that you understand he has these feelings, and you want him to release them, but that taking them out on the people you love is not approrpriate. He could go through a routine of punching a bag, taking target practice with a nerf gun, or jumping on a trampoline. Yes, repetitive physical release helps NT kids, too, it just may not have the same strong nuerological connection it seems to for AS kids.

My 10 year old maybe NT daughter just started Karate and she says that helps her a lot with her anger issues (which are extensive); having him give a go at that sport is also something to consider.

A game I've played with my daughter can help you get some insight, too. When she says she hates me or is embarassed by me, I tell her, "Oh, want to trade me in for another model? Tell me, what kind of new mommy do you want?" Always good clues into what is going on in her head when she does that.

Even with NT kids, behavior problems have a source. Find the source, and you make progress. Don't, and you wrap up into a negative discipline cycle. Stay consistent on the consequences but don't worry too much about if they have affect. They always have affect. Just some kids are better at hiding it than others.

Best of luck.

I've considered the punching bag, because he also hits and kicks (or threatens to hit or kick) his brothers. Reading you recommend it and several other physical activities makes a lot of sense and I do hope it does take out a lot of the punch (no pun intended) from the behavior.

I hadn't thought about AS for him because the behavior is so much different from my aspie son and I. My aspie son acts just like me. But I will keep an eye on it now for any spectrum-related symptomatic behavior.

Wow, that's a lot of kids! How do you manage so many kids, especially as an aspie?

As DW_a_mom says, opportunities to destress may be useful, especially if there's a chance your 5 year old is an aspie.

If he's truly neurotypical, I think it's important not to take his words literally. It's likely that he's just saying mean things to get the attention of yourself or other family members. Probably what all of his statements really mean is "I'm upset". With neurotypicals, the tone and emotions that accompany a statement are often more important than the nominal meaning of the words.

I think what's needed here is that difficult "read between the lines" thing to figure out why he's upset or angry. Were the other kids picking on him or excluding him? Does he feel he's not getting his share of parental attention? Maybe there's something about his home life that you can fix.

If the hurtful wording really bothers you, I suppose you could try ignoring him when he uses such wording, and paying attention when he uses more literal wording, like "I'm really mad". I'm not sure whether that kind of a change is something that a neurotypical child can make, though.

All that anger makes it sound like he's a five year old. NT or AS, I wouldn't worry about it.

I was only diagnosed two years ago. Life happened and I ended up with four kids plus a couple step-daughters. It's not a burden or anything. I love my kids and felt an instant affection and connection to them from the moment they were born. I love my step-daughters, too. I really couldn't imagine the world without these people in it. So it's not hard to manage. We don't get to do somethings... like it's difficult to decide if my daughter should switch from non-competitive to competitive soccer because the competitive teams travel all over the region. If I only had her, she'd be switched already. You know? But sacrifices like that are part of having a big family and aren't a big deal. I'm really just out of cards when it comes to dealing with my youngest.

At least there is something more I can try now.



Oh, I know he doesn't really hate us and want to kill us. I know these are just awful things he's saying to lash out. And he knows that he cannot say those things at school because he makes better choices there. It doesn't make his words any less hurtful. He's actually brought my husband to tears before... and yesterday we were at a Farmer's Market where my son screamed so everyone could hear, "You're a bad father!" which had everyone staring (and my husband isn't as good at responding to public humiliation like I am so he didn't know what to do). I wasn't there at the time because my step-daughter and I were elsewhere at the market getting something for her. The boys had stepped away because that's what my youngest wanted to do. When they sat on a bench to wait, my aspie son gave up his seat for my youngest... who promptly hit him for it, then took the seat anyway. It's really confusing where this is even coming from.

No, ma'am. I have been the mother of three other five year olds and have been step-mother to another five year old. These tantrums and outbursts may be understandable at ages two and three but they are not appropriate at five, especially when he has demonstrated control. Please try not to be dismissive when I went through the trouble of providing as much information as possible to avoid people misunderstanding the situation and telling me (1) try time-outs and other obvious things that have been attempted and failed; and (2) not to worry about it because it's normal.

I was wondering more about the mechanics of it. When my wife and I had only one child, everything was fine - whoever was watching the kids could focus on the one child. Now with two children, watching both of them requires a lot of multitasking, which we find very stressful for the aspie parent. Any tips you can share?


It sounds to me like he wants control. He wants to be able to have someone move because he tells them to, rather than rely on their volunteering to help. Likely the adults and older kids often tell him to do things that are perfectly reasonable - "step out of the door so this man can get through" - but to him, it may seem like other people are constantly telling him what to do and he doesn't get to tell anyone else what to do.

Even if that's true, though, I'm not sure what the fix to that is. Perhaps getting him to make polite requests and then making a point of granting them whenever it's not completely unreasonable would help.

As an aspie parent, I don't find it too stressful. I will forget things, like making sure everyone's homework lists are signed and their reading logs are filled out, or that my daughter has her glasses on or that my oldest remembered to brush his teeth before we left. It's the little things that slip by me. But I created systems to compensate. We have a homework station where backpacks are emptied. So now everybody's homework lists and reading logs are in my sight. This helps me remember. I made my daughter solely responsible for wearing her glasses (with a consequence if she forgets) and she's been fantastic with that responsibility. For my oldest, I bought those little disposable brushes for him to keep in his backpack and when he forgets to brush, he can brush his teeth in the car. So you find ways to work it out.



That makes sense. He and my daughter are both very big on control. I hadn't thought to consider other people doing things for him or helping him to be considerate as a threat to his control, but I can see how he can think that way.

He sounds possibly aspie to me. Holding it together all day then lashing out and de-stressing at home. If he is, i could imagine living with so many personalities very stressful (certainly not saying your doing anything wrong). My boys both get shirty about each other, even though on their own they are "perfect kids" and in everyone else's eyes I have "perfect kids". Both my kids (one's an adult) find fault with each other and me to a degree lol, both get angry if the other one invades his space, both complain endlessly how hard done by they are, that one got something and they didn't, both tell me how to parent the other. Both have strong opinions on the other one's behavior.

Both save their anger and meltdowns for home.

Perhaps try parenting him as you would an aspie, see if that helps. Having said all that though, 5 year old's (NT's) can be extremely rude and nasty.