Do neurotypical children ever have meltdowns?

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At 2 years 9 months, our daughter seems to be fairly neurotypical so far, and we even have a little positive evidence from eye tracking. All her tantrums up until today seem to have been tantrums rather than meltdowns - when we figure out what she wants and give it to her, the tantrum instantly stops. Of course, sometimes we don't give her what she wants, and the behavior continues until she gets tired, but that's also consistent with a tantrum.

Today she had something that seemed more like a meltdown. I use two reusable grocery bags, one burlap and one made from a woven plastic material. She thinks of the plastic one as "hers", and she has been carrying it to the grocery store for about two years. Normally she has to be asked nicely before she will give it to me or the checkout lady to use, but today she was distracted and I just grabbed both bags to use them.

When we got to the car, I loaded the plastic bag, now full of groceries, into the back. When I went to load the burlap one, she was holding it and wouldn't give it up, saying "mine" in a cute mischievous way.

Since I know she usually thinks of the plastic bag as hers, I said, "no, I already put your bag in the car", pointing to the plastic bag.

At this point she started reaching for the plastic bag - she was still sitting in the shopping cart - yelling "mine, mine" and crying, and struggled out of my grip when I tried to put her in her car seat. I loaded the other bag in, and then in an attempt to stop what I thought was the tantrum, said I'd put the plastic bag of groceries in the car in front of her seat. However, she grabbed it when I took it out of the back and refused to let me move it, then tried to load it herself - she's in the "do it myself" stage. Of course, it was full and as heavy as she was, so she couldn't budge it. Eventually I ignored her objections and helped her lift it into the car, but she continued bawling for a while afterwards, even though I'd given her what she wanted - I think.

So - tantrum, or meltdown? And if it's a meltdown, does that say anything about whether she's likely to be on the spectrum, or do neurotypical kids have occasional meltdowns too?

The line between meltdown and tantrum is unclear, but i think you're right in that a tantrum is an attempt by a child toget what he/she wants, a meltdown is a more confused unfocused outburst without an obvious trigger, something as simple as her not having control over the plastic bag for example.

That said, this one instance isn't enough to cause you worry, these things happen to all kids since all kids (and adults) have at least a little bit of autistic tendencies, however she is now reaching the age where ASD will become more obvious if she does have it.
Just keep a look out for signs and - in particular - pay attention to how she interacts with kids her own age, since that's the fastest indicicator as far as I know.

You know, children have been my life since I was old enough to recognize that I was no longer one. That said, everything I thought I knew about kids has gone completely out the window in the last few years.

My son never went through the terrible two's, he hit the tyrannical threes at a run and never looked back! But he's an aspie and I would bet my left foot that you know more about that then I do. (Though he did have a shopping bag incident of his own at about a year old...)

The thing is that kids, even NT kids, don't always make sense to adults. A lot of things could have influenced her behavior. Maybe she wasn't feeling well. Maybe she was tired. Maybe she was just really pissed that you took HER bag, so she was going to take your bag.

I'm wondering if she didn't get confused with the game...

From what you've said, she's used to being asked for the bag. Perhaps at the car, maybe she didn't realize that she didn't hold her bag - and was trying to make up for having missed out on her chance to instigate the game in the checkout lane so she tried (still playful) to reinstate the game of making you ask for it. When it was pointed out that her bag was put away, she'd missed out on the game again!! ! (That's when the tantrum started) Then couldn't pick up the bag. (DANGER! DANGER!) Even NT toddlers like their routines and their games.

You gave her what you thought she wanted, but quite possibly she just wanted to be in control of the situation.

It's too hard to say what might have motivated her without even looking at the ASD/NT aspect. I wouldn't worry about one incident and you're already aware of the possibility, so if she is ASD... the signs will only get bigger and more abundant as she gets older.

Really, I wouldn't sweat it at this point, especially if she doesn't seem to have any other symptoms.

Good luck!

"Do neurotypical children ever have meltdowns?"

yes.

my 7yo NT has had a few. they are less frequent, shorter, not as intense, and require certain conditions, but they are definitely the unreasonable meltdown rather than the predictable tantrum (he has those too, tho, of course). they are mostly triggered by frustrations when overly tired for my son. they start as an overreaction, then simply escalate with him unable to bring himself down. not violent, just crying and yelling and insistent upon a course of action we have denied. the only way out is for us to hold him for the 5-10 minutes it takes to run its course, then he can be reasonable again.

I agee, even NT families talk about meltdowns when their toddlers are overloaded, but NT families seem to expect to be done with it by some age. Having a family that is a whole mix myself, I can only say that my perceived NT child does melt down, but it's different. It that is just her personality or an NT thing, I have no idea.

Also, I think for most of our families here, it isn't as simple as sorting our kids into NT v. AS boxes. Our kids tend to be a bit of a mix, with some diagnosable and needing services, and some not. So ... You're probably going to be figuring it out as you go no matter what. The adventure of parenting!

Very well said. It makes me think of my family of origin, and how my most NT sister still has significant sensory issues and anxiety, and how the one dxed with William's syndrome/autism is the most social of any of us! There are no clearly defined boxes. I am sure NT kids get overwhelmed and melt down from time to time, just like it is possible for an AS kid to attempt a good old fashioned tantrum to get what he/she wants approach.

Thanks everyone for the useful info.

I've been meaning to post on that, actually. I'm still meaning to.


I think that's very much what was going on from her point of view.


Thanks. Except for her ultimately being thwarted by physics - the heavy grocery bag - rather than by her parents, that's exactly what happened here, and the thwarting did start with a parent. I didn't mention it, but there were other stressors; she was getting over a cold, and because my mother was visiting she was getting baked goods and candy, which she usually doesn't.


I'm really hoping to be done with the tantrums, if not the meltdowns, soon. We're encouraging her to ask for what she wants, rather than just crying until she figures it out, and there's some progress on that front.

Yes they do have meltdowns as well but it can be hard to tell if it's a tantrum or not. If a child is tired so they keep crying and screaming because they don't like being dragged around and having to keep walking on their feet, probably a meltdown. They are tired and want to rest. I am sure infants can meltdown too. When they get tired and overwhelmed from lot of chaos in the room, they start to cry and scream. I am sure that be a meltdown.

I am NT (at least I think lol)

I had HUGE meltdowns as a child: real problems containing frustration and anger. I would become easily overwhelmed and frustrated, and I lacked focus. When I was in 3rd grade I threw a chair through a window! They stuck me in special education (even though I was quite bright), and I didn't get out of there until high school.

(I did well in college andgraduate school--I seemed to "grow out of it")

So I have to remind my wife that when my oldest boy melts down, it may have nothing to do with Asperger's.

I don't know....for a 2 and a half year old, meltdowns are typical. Every child is different - they don't all have tantrums over exactly the same thing. They usually grow out of these by the time they start school. But at 2, they're still babies, and so still aren't sure how to react to an uncertain situation, no matter how awkward or stubborn they can be.

My friend has a neurotypical daughter who is grown up now, but when she was 2 and 3, she melted down at everything. She was prone to tantrums and meltdowns. When she was having a meltdown or tantrum, she would crawl under something (like a table) and sulk, and when one of her sisters or parents saw her, she would wail at them, and would scream if they pulled her out from underneath the table. Also she would scream if somebody touched her face. She was OK for kisses, but if somebody wanted to wipe her face with a tissue, she would struggle away and scream.

I'm not sure if these are meltdowns or what, but she would harshly react to things at the drop of a hat. She always tried to be ''the boss'', and if somebody disobeyed her liking, she would melt down. She grew out of this by age 4, maybe had one or two episodes where she would cry at certain things, but by age 6 she grew out of it altogether.

So all children are different. If a child melts down, it doesn't mean you go running to the doctors demanding for a diagnosis when they're still in babyhood. Wait for a few years, and if she has the same sort of meltdowns when she's 5, then maybe go and see about getting them assessed.

There were several occasions when I had to literally drag my daughter out of a store because she "lost it" (including her will to walk)over some random problem, and not necessarily wanting a toy as per the usual tantrum. She was later diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder at the age of 11.

Near as I can figure, what people mean on this forum when they say "tantrum" is the behavior of a child who is using excessively angry or sad behaviors to get what he or she wants. Tantrums go away once the child is satisfied, and tend to increase temporarily when adults don't give in.

"Meltdowns," also in my understanding, are more like a "computer crash" of the brain. They may outwardly look like tantrums, although they can also be periods of nonresponsiveness, or anything in between - but they have more to do with being overwhelmed and out of control. It's as though the brain revolts and starts choosing random behaviors because it doesn't know what else to do. My son's have a distinctly seizure-like quality about them in their intensity.

Certainly children and adults of all neurotypes can become overwhelmed, and thus have meltdowns. The same, as has already been pointed out, could be said for tantrums (watch some reality TV if you want to see NT adults having tantrums.)

I think the major difference between AS and NT kids is that as NT kids age, they are able to monitor what's going on and tell you what their needs are before they reach meltdown stage; this is a part of development - so it's not typical of toddlers. (I hesitate to say "normal development," though I suppose that phrase would apply here.)

In my son's case, he isn't aware enough of the things that cause him stress to be able to articulate that something bothers him until it becomes a huge problem.

I agree with your dichotomy between meltdowns and tantrums (not quoted). However, I don't think aspie meltdowns are typically caused by discrete needs that can be satisfied. Typically it's just an accumulation of psychic load, especially from being around other people.

My way of avoiding meltdowns is to get some time to myself. Or maybe that's just a way of having a meltdown without its being too obvious.

I have meltdowns, yet I still tell other people whenever something bothers me. But I'm not sure what the difference is between a meltdown, an outburst, a panic attack, and a nervous breakdown. My meltdowns (or whatever they are) are very verbal, and I act how an NT would act in an angry rage, except the meltdowns are usually about something what an NT wouldn't get into a rage over, if that makes sense.

For example, I have 12 cousins, and all but 2 all go clubbing (the 2 who don't are still children, but as soon as they reach 18 they will go clubbing), and typically I'm the only one because I have this isolating disability called AS, so this is living proof that NTs all go clubbing and the Aspie don't. But let's get to the point here - I tell my mum and my aunts how I feel about being the only one emotionally unable to go clubbing, but sometimes it just gets on top of me and I flare up, yelling things like, ''WHY ME? WHY IS IT ME BORN WITH AUTISM AND EVERYONE ELSE NORMAL! WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE SUFFERING BEING AN UNUSUAL 21 YEAR OLD! WHY IS IT ME, ME, ME?! !! !! !! !'' Then I break down, which is excessive crying and slapping my head because I'm trying to punish my brain for making me not know how to be sociable and able to do these things what 95 percent of young people of my age do, and it just makes me feel so isolated and depressed.

I'm not sure if this is a meltdown, an outburst, a panic attack or a nervous breakdown. Sometimes I don't think I will make 50, with all this loneliness.

True, but what we are teaching my son is that he needs to be aware of that load (he's starting to learn there are physical signs, like his lips get tight) and advocate for himself, so it's not all that different in practice. Meaning, DS needs to learn, when he is socially exhausted, to say "I need a break for a minute," and then to actually take that break. An NT kid might similarly learn to say "I'm hungry" or "I'm tired," and then eat or rest.

When I was a kid I always said when I was hungry or tired or whatever. The only things what gave me meltdowns were anxiety-related things, like a change in routine. And I still seemed to have tantrums when I was 7, like laying on the floor crying, but as soon as an adult had solved the situation, I immediately stopped crying. I didn't do this at school after the age of 7, but I've always been a very emotional person. When I was a child and something upset or worried me, I would cry just like that, but would also tell an adult why I was crying.

When I was 3, I remember having a really bad tummy at preschool. So I quietly got up and asked one of the teachers, ''can I go to the toilet?'' and I had diarrhoea when I was on the toilet. When I came out I started crying, and a teacher asked why, and I told her that I have a bad tummy, so she phoned my mum to come and take me home because I wasn't well. Is that normal for an Aspie? Obviously me or anyone else knew I was an Aspie then, but I must have been because I didn't just magically transform into an Aspie on my first day of school. On the first day of school I was really frightened (I actually don't remember this), and I didn't tell anyone and just showed bad signs what the teachers couldn't put their finger on what was wrong. But after about 4 months, I calmed down, and was able to normally tell how I was feeling physically and emotionally, without difficulty, like how I did before I started school. Perhaps that's just an Aspie trait I don't have. We're all different, I suppose. Or maybe it's because I'm a very....NT-like Aspie.