13 Going on 25 Sturbon & Entitled? Questions everything.

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I would like to get some experienced Opinions on this please from some who have gone through the 13 years Old boy stage with Autism. So here's what's going on honest and straight forward.

13 year old Son is doing ok at school with most classes. In a normal Public Middle School. Has had a couple of semi aggressive social issues, lashing out in anger with Teacher and Kids at about 4-5 times over last 2 years. His opinion is that all the Kids at school are idiots. And he does not really care to be associated with them. (Altho he has been and is becoming very rude and disrespectful himself with people for no apparent reason. He lives in a nice home, is a only child that is loved and gets most of what he wants. He has started to question everything I and his Mother ask him to do and I think most of it is due to his Moms Friends Parent approach and Negotiating each of Him daily required task.

When ever he is asked to do something he questions or disregards, but then when confronted in a deescalated matter about getting going, he blames you for repeating yourself. Yes all the text book ways have been tried, but all result in the same combative, reverse parenting scolding of you by him. He sometimes blows you off when asked about simple tack ( that by the way He is capable of performing, taking a shower, brushing teeth.) And continues to play Video games of one of his 3 computers, and will even advise you that you are aggravating him and refuses to start his homework that he is capable of doing, in spite of us trying all the deescalating homework Autistic ways.

When corrected about the smart mouth comments verbally he escalates loudly, then when you wont budge in letting him have a manipulating way, he goes into a very sorry for him, you don't understand Boo-hoo cry baby drama session that he is not capable of performing task, yet he can still perform that task he wants. Being a Father of 2 other kids 9 & 17, I know that Kids do have those times and that Autistic kids are much more of a patience challenge. But He has become aggressive at time, charging his Mother, slamming things, calling us Idiots and Cursing at us. He sees a Dr. who prescribes Meds to him.

I am very much concerned about the fact of his Mom allowing him to stay up late sometimes (often) school nights 10pm and weekends 1-2am. I try to enforce a bed time of 10:30-11pm on week ends Fri, Sat. And in the bed by 9:30 on school nights. I have noticed a big difference in him being very difficult when going to bed late. Also Sugar snacks ( cake, juice, cookies etc,) turn him into a monster of aggression. Verbally with Sugar snacks he is Rude, aggressive, entitled, and confrontational.

So with some info listed, could some please comment about your experiences. Please keep in mind that he is Autistic on the slight side and high functioning. Just mostly stubborn and combative, and rude. He is a good Kid for the most part, and we Love Him and would not trade him for anything in the world. I have expressed non confrontational rule enforcement with him and Mom that I feel are very important. We know that life does not always go perfect, but try to do the best things, and stay away the not best things, that lead to him almost being the difference between and out of control Manic Depressant vs a happy little Guy that is pleasant and little more Social able. Thank you all for reading. Sorry so long.

His behaviors seem like regular spoiled child/annoying teenage behaviors instead of autistic behaviors.
I think you and your wife may need to toughen up on your parenting approach, make clear rules, have real consequences, etc.
Perhaps videotape his behavior and show it to him later when he is more calm to see how he looks when he acts out in a spoiled child way.
Possibly this annoying period will pass since he is 13, and most 13-year-olds are annoying and have this kind of behavior often.

Thanks, Its the aggression and sturboneness that worry's me most. A few times he has threaten to seriously injure himself. We cant just sit by and bow down to his defiance, not having him do homework, basic dressing to go out skills, and others, refusing to stop playing computer games.

And that fact that he goes thru sometime 30mins + sessions of Drama and baby acting manipulation, anything to get his way.

Hi - I have a 14 year old daughter who is an only child with high functioning AS. She attends a mainstream college prep private school. I related to your post.....a lot! Daughter is also spoiled, stubborn, wants to do what she wants, when she wants. Does not like any rules or limits and will argue for as long as it takes. It can be exhausting, I feel for you. I think much of it is normal teenage, separating from your parents behavior. But you sprinkle the AS on top and get a child who wants to be treated as an adult. In our case at least our daughter has a difficult time realizing she is not our peer, she is our child. Partly, its our fault because she spends lots of time with adults and we include her in conversations and want to hear her views on things. But then we don't want to hear her thoughts on what her bedtime should be, or how much time she should be on electronics, etc.

What has worked best for us is setting clear limits of what is expected. We actually write stuff down and have her sign off on it. It's basically like a contract and can include whatever you need it to. We have a gpa we expect her to maintain (its reasonable), the amount of activities we expect her to be involved in (2), what her bedtime is, the amount of time she is allowed on electronics, etc.

Having everything written down helps to decrease arguments - we can say, " This is what you agreed to," and then give consequences (with warnings first). You can even have consequences spelled out too. I realize this might not work or every family but it has helped us.

We also have our daughter talk with a therapist (a Phd who works with kids on the spectrum) and it helps for her to be able to vent and get guidance from someone other than mom and dad. The therspist also gives us parents helpful insight too. Like I had been getting really bothered by my daughters sort of condescending tone of voice when she talked to me. Therapist told me many kids with AS don't realize their tone is disrespectful, etc. She also reminds us how hard our daughter is working every day to "fit in" and fly under the radar. And how exhausting that probably is for her. Sometimes we almost forget the challenges our daughter faces because she compensates so well - so its a good reminder to have the therapist.

Hang in there - I remember most of my "angsty" teen years being over by junior year - although its different for every child I'm sure. All the best to you and your family.

Thank you both for your responses. Good to hear others opinions and suggestions. I have told her many times that just because a child has a disability does not mean that they cant also be a spoiled brat unrelated to the disability. On the relation of the parents of the 14 year old girl, good to see that we are not alone in my Sons actions. Seemly more the problem of being a Single child. We definitely have a lot of work to do.

This was very good for his Mom to see, confirming that there needs to be a little tougher parenting and rules. I have also warned her that constant mention of consequences of punishment without ever initiating the consequence would only lead to him doing more of the same. Please continue all to post, as reading here has helped a lot in reinforcing a direction to go in. As dealing with him sometimes is a battle that weakens us, due to his stubborn attitude and defiance. The bedtime defiance is our next step as he has been wining that one by stalling and ignoring the rules. Thanks.

Entitled seems like a very strong word to me. Have you tried talking to him about his behaviors when he is not in the midst of being upset about something? If so, what happens?

The teenage stuff is hard for NT kids. For AS kids, even if mild AS, it is even harder. When I was that age, I had many worries and had a lot of trouble sleeping (I still do actually) so I would not automatically assume that the bedtime issue is the typical teenage rebellion stuff. It could be, of course, but I would not assume it. If he has social or other worries, which he may not be confiding in you, that could effect sleep. Even if he is doing something recreational instead of trying to sleep, it could be to take his mind off things.

I was not allowed out of my room past a certain hour, and I did not have electronics or games or anything in my room, so I would read until very, very late. Sometimes my dad would check on me, and insist I put the book down because I needed to sleep. He was not wrong that I needed to sleep, but if you can't sleep, you can't sleep. So I used to perseverate in very unhealthy ways, and honestly I would have been better off with my book back. Of course, I would have been more better off being able to sleep, but no one helped me with that, and I don't know if meds or something would have helped in that or not.

As far as the temper goes, my son is younger than yours, and is just starting to get into occasional bouts of what might be pre-teen surliness. We correct him and explain that people will judge him on his tone and all that. I don't have suggestions for that because we just started having this issue. Right now, it is easily manageable, but we have to remind him about it, pre-emptively, when we are out and about so for example, he does not use a tone with waitstaff whom he thinks should be able to remember what he always orders.

I agree, if you threaten a punishment you should follow through. However, if it is a punishment you can't enforce or it seems unwise to enforce it, you need to think outside the box to think of something more effective, perhaps.

For example,it is possible your wife is unable to physically get him to stay in his room, or something like that. You should talk to her about what her rationale is for what she enforces and what she doesn't, so that you both can create something workable for her to follow through on. If she has concerns that the issue is that he cannot do something, you should be as respectful to her point of view as you want her to be to yours. Just because as autistic person can do something some of the time; it does not mean it is logical to infer he can do it all the time.

"The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene http://www.livesinthebalance.org/ http://www.amazon.com/The-Explosive-Chi ... 0062270451 might be something you should look into, as it explains how to handle aggressiveness and oppositional behaviors in way that is more inclusive of the child's perspective in addition to yours, which helps with compliance for some children.

I am not saying your interpretation is wrong, as I do not know your child, or your family, but it never hurts to look at all options.

Edited to add: In addition, if he is threatening self-injury, i would be very, very cautious. He may need more intensive help than you realize. This is a very bad reaction to stress, and I would not assume it is manipulative. Self-harming behaviors are not uncommon.

Yes Entitled is a strong word but...... it fits him to a tee, if you know him. There is big difference in his world of his ability when its to his advantage. Selective memory as a example. Correction of the Parent, but lack of acceptance of it if the same exact example is used with him. He is NOT incapable. Most conflicts are the lack of his effort or NO, in spite of his show of ability. I have given him counseling, Austin classes with kids, and advised him to talk with the Guidance councilor at school. When I am able to Guide him and he takes action, he just about always smiles and is happier. I try to relate to him that we all have some problems, but there are alternative to deal with them other than his negative way. One Poster above hit the nail on the head. He's as if he's his own Adult, stubborn to listen, more comfortable to complain and blames everyone else always.

We continue to talk to him when in a calm state. He takes over the conversation. Mostly output by him, very little gets through, very stubborn. As far as the sleep its very simple, 95% of the time if he gets in the bed, he falls asleep. He has no problem sleeping. Its getting him to get in the Bed that IS the problem. The Dr told him this too. His thinking is that he should have the same bed time as us ( his Mom again in the Past), and that bedtime is negotiation/discussion decision time about it. Agreements commitment is a one way street, if it fits his advantage then we should hold to it. If it does not fit his feelings of advantage this its up to if he feels like doing it or not. Even tho he understand and agrees. I think the variances of allowing him to break rules due to us not wanting his manipulative drama session are what we need to work on most.

There is also this Hell bent "I'm better than others, the rest of the World are idiots." Another problem is that his 86 year old Grandmothers Husband takes him to Karate class 3 times a week. When he comes back from being when him, he has a Grumpy Old man complaint attitude. ( Like is Step Grandfather). When trying to talk to him sometimes, he gets frustrated saying you "assumed something he said, and goes into a major talk a thon. He will cry out in frustration, Jesus Crist! and For the Love of God! ???? LOL!

Regarding the self injure, its only during a lengthy "NO" command on something he wants that's he goes to the manic depressant, baby crying and self pity party, then to the threat of self injuring. It comes out of his anger. No question that I take it serious and sought Dr. help as the very start of it. That is staring to go away, but I explained it for a full spectrum understanding. Trust me I understand Kids as much as you can having raised a 17 year old Girl.

Thanks for your reply, some how we need to implement a consequence result that we can apply consistent that we have not. That's a tuff one for us, being that he has all the "trust me" manipulation tools and promises that it wont happen again skills. Knowing we Love him very much.

All post are greatly appreciated.

I think 13 years old is still young enough to grow out of this kind of thinking of being entitled and blaming others.
It is probably best to have a few clear rules and consequences.
One thing to avoid is growing into an adult with this attitude, esp. blaming others, looking down on others, etc.
Also let him know that you believe in him.

Coming back to give another suggestion. With your son being 13 - dealing with teenage hormones, a more complicated social scene in middle school, probably more difficult schoolwork, etc. - talk with him about ways he can release stress or calm himself. I bring this up because while I don't think being a teenager excuses rude, argumentative behavior, our kids are dealing with a lot. AS on top of just the regular teenage growing pains. I had a good conversation with my daughter about self soothing. She never had stimming behavior but had read about it, and that some people on the spectrum use it to calm themselves. She decided to try to find something for herself that would work that way. She now goes running to calm down - puts on her music and heads out to run and comes back more centered and happy.

Now I realize not everyone will find the same things soothing or calming. When my daughter was young occupational therapy (the input of different activities) helped her regulate her behavior. And now that she is older running seems to help in the same way. Maybe for others it might be drawing, or writing in a journal or whatever. But if you can encourage your son to explore what might help him to be calm and centered this could help provide him with an outlet when he gets frustrated with you or just life in general, and hopefully allow him to downshift and avoid arguments. Anyway, just a suggestion. Again, best of luck to your family!

Well I think 13 could be old enough to grow out of it, if the growth is toward the better direction. But continuation of allowing manipulation and the behavior up to this point could also learn a incorrect behavior as an Adult.

As I have said before I think. We talk and it goes on stubborn ears, or a take over by him. I'm still trying though. We did make a little progress this week, he is getting more rest, and have cut out sugar. The behavior is not fixed but it not as intense at all. The ignoring of request is still on going. As 2 examples. The other day his Mother asked him to take the trash bag out. It takes a whole 2 mins. As he really does not help with anything around the house. But is aware and will let us know that the house needs to be straighten up and cleaned. ( WE need to do a better job is his message) . When she tried to hand him the bags to walk them outside, he crossed his arms, and told her he did not like the way she was talking to him, and backed up refusing to take the bag. Instead, reversed parenting correcting her, as to how she should ask him. Reality is she has tried all the book ways, and it does not matter. He would have blown her off no matter how she asked, because he was playing a Video game.

I came over, told him we would work on it. Asked him to watch me role playing. I took the bag from her hand, said ok Mom, and walked to the door. I also calmly explained to him that it was less stress to do what I did than have a confrontation. He 13 about 5'10, 165lbs. I joked with him asking if, he was able to carry the 5lb bag and find his way to the door outside 30 feet to the trash and back. He smiled said yes, and went to do it. But....... next time he will still argue and do the same thing. Sometimes rarely he say's " I know I'm suppose to do this".

Another example is bed time 9:30. I personally think it should be 9:00 but Mom does not want to have the fight. All week when reminded that its 9:20 and he has 10 mins. At 9:40 you go in the room and tell him its past time, he stalls still playing games, says he's busy, and says he knows, but refuses to budge. I sit there with him, mentioning again every 2- 4 mins. He become aggravated, smart mouthed says " I knooooooooow". Growls at me and is very difficult. After pressure he stops and gets in the bed. Once in there 5-10 mins later hes is sleep. Keep in mind that He does know, is mild AT, and is quick to correct us, apply time rules, chores, promises, and other accountable things to us, but.... Not himself. We are working on presenting some new simple rules, to try to get his commitment on. I just am not sure how much I can trust it. I don't want him growing up thinking the world will kiss his behind for everything, that everything else is someone else fault, a lazy bum, everything is negotiable, a major spoiled brat, and that his manipulation skills will work to always get his way. He is very smart and capable.

PS: He is never stressed until he cant get his way ( cant self parent decisions himself) or asked to perform a task he can do, but just does not want to stop what he is doing at that point.

Comments still requested from any and all. Thank you.

The arguing back about taking out the trash seems like bratty 13-year-old behavior that he can grow out of hopefully.
It might help if you assign him the chore of taking out the trash whenever it gets full, so he can do it on his own time, without interrupting something he is already doing.

A visual schedule might help him, so he can see when he is supposed to do what.

Another issue is being in the middle of something. if I know my son has to do something soon, I watch him very closely as that time approaches and help him find stopping points in what he is doing. It is very upsetting to him to have to interrupt a preferred thing, and his executive functioning skills are not up to the task of exercising the self-discipline to do so himself, all the time. So this is a thing we help him with. I build in the time for him.

I will say this, I am a bit concerned about the language you use about your own child. "Spoiled brat?" "Entitled?" Why are you choosing to word it that way? I understand being frustrated when you have a child that is non-compliant and is not following a typical developmental schedule for skills; but this language signals a hostility towards your own child that I cannot imagine is productive. If he is as high-functioning as you make him out to be, he is picking up on this, and that is really a very bad thing. I was a very (excessively) compliant child, and if my parents showed that sort of feeling to me, I am sure I would have been more oppositional in response.

It is pretty typical for a child with ASD to view himself as equal to adults, especially if they have issues relating to peers, and are smart and know more than adults do about their special interests. As puberty hits and they feel they are biological adults, I think this tendency increases. This is a stage where you can double down on being the rule police and see what happens (likely nothing good, if this approach has not worked before) or you teach your child that rights and responsibilities go hand and hand --- which is like the real world works, and I think more instructive.

If he complains about the family housekeeping, that is when you say that the house would be cleaner if he helped more; and if he doesn't like a messy home, he should help. If he says it is your job, you tell him, that if it is your job, you will do it how you like. If he wants it done better, he should help, and so on.

Remind him that if he wants to be treated more like an adult, with more rights, he needs to attempt to be more helpful. You will help him learn, but he has to be willing to accept that help. An aspie generally responds better to rational discussion than other things. Also let him know, when he is economically independent and lives on his own, he will have more independence, but he still needs to learn these skills so he can take care of himself. Explain that you are trying to help him do this. If he is already bristling under your rules, maybe the prospect of moving out, and no longer being subject to them in however many years it takes, will be a good incentive. Demeaning language is not going to help either of you.