balance I am finding it difficult

Post Reply New Topic

I am beginning to understand my son, but I am at a crossroad whilst I am trying to work things around his needs, I feel he can manipulate me at times or maybe because I am more understanding/or less understanding that I am letting situations go. How do I find a balance!

I let situations go all the time. If I didn't I go insane. Raising our aspie kids takes tons of effort, why waste any of it on unnecessary battles. Focus on the stuff that really matters and pretend you haven't seen the other stuff.

Thanks MotherKnowsBest that put a on my face!

I am sorry, but I do not agree with MamaKnowsBest. And by the way my daughter's therapist does not agree either. Our children can be manipulative. They are usually trying to get things thevway they want. You cannot let them do that, because out therenobody will, and they need to learn how to live in society. If you do nit teach him to live by the rukes you are failing as a father. I know its hard, but it is our duty. Pretending you did not see does not help him. Or you.

I echo MotherKnowsBest. Loved the way she said it.

Let's be clear: she isn't saying that you let anything important slide. She's saying that parenting is definitely about picking your battles. I learned that long ago watching friends (we were late starters, so there were lots of friends to watch), and it's essential to everyone's sanity. Kids need to be allowed to be themselves, and parents need to be allowed to take a break from the role of task master.

If a child is regularly being manipulative, you nip it in the bud. But my AS son rarely is (the NT daughter can be another story ). He simply has real needs that must be met; to suggest that these needs are made up or should be pushed aside would be ridiculous and counter-productive. Most of them are very real. Has he ever over-played it? Yes, he's confessed to that; he's a kid; he's going to use the tools at his disposal. But he also knows that my continuing to honor his needs requires that I trust him to be straight with me, and one or two times of being in real distress with mom not being sure she believes it is enough to teach a child to be really careful with how often they try to fake it (the "boy who cried wolf" effect).

There is plenty of time for a child to learn to live in the real world. Childhood is supposed to be a sheltered time, to experiment, learn, grow and make mistakes without them all turning to disasters. As they gain maturity, you increase the expectations, help them get more ready. But it all comes fast enough; there isn't anything wrong with letting them just be for a while, as long as it doesn't interfere with mom's sanity.

I'm a loose parent, I admit it. I've had some family members acknowledge that they've been a little less than sure at times if I'm making the right calls. But my kids are great: they've risen to the occasion in some very tough situations that got the best of other kids, they do well in school, they win awards, they don't lie, and they take responsibility. There is no magic formula; it depends on the specific kids you are raising. You've got to feel your way through it, and eye the results to see if you've got it right; change the balance when you don't. I look at my kids and I'm confident I'm getting it right for them (not that it's been a perfectly straight line ), and every doubting family member has had to eat their words, and has told me so.

Manipulation generally occurs when two people have incompatible objectives, and one person is trying to get things to go the way they want by subterfuge. There isn't much you can do about the subterfuge part as you will always wind up with the question, is this really a problem, or is he trying to manipulate me? You will never really get a clear answer there. However, what you can work on is the incompatible objectives part. If you feel that your son is trying to manipulate you into doing something, ask yourself why he would want that.

For example, is he feigning illness because he is trying to trick you into letting him stay home from school? If so, ask yourself why he is trying to stay home from school? Does he not understand the value of an education (not that school really helps with that). Is he having problems with bullies? Is he feeling overwhelmed with school? Really, if a person is trying to manipulate you into something, its because they have a motivation or interest which is different than yours. And the best way to resolve that difference is to talk with your child about it, and get both of you on the same page so there will be no need for subterfuge.

Overall, it is hard to give more specific advice without more details. Why do you feel he is manipulating you and how?

Tracker [quote] Overall, it is hard to give more specific advice without more details. Why do you feel he is manipulating you and how?

It depends on situations sometimes it can be around big issue relating to school and most times not.

This is just an example, it doesnt have to relate around big issues he can be like this when he wants to get his own way. I dont accept it and when he tries to manuplate me I explain that he will not get his way behaving in that manner. But this is constant and I will constantly repeat the same. I am finding now that I am unsure if I am dealing with it correctly should I stick with what has worked (not as great as I would like but works) or am I backing down because I am feeling that I should let it go because of his dx?

if things don't go the way he wants or thinks it should, or sometimes what he is saying doesnt make sense to me, or he cant express it, we do try to find out what the problem is but then he gets angry, fustrated and can bang and break or hit doors or objects etc. he will then threaten in a menacing manner not to go school, and will keep reminding me he is not going to school but do it in a tone thats not acceptable.

I calm the situation down by saying we will talk about it in the morning before school this can work as it gives him time to cool down.

Whatever he is obsessed with which changes a lot he will need to do it daily (many times) or we get the menacing treatment. I try to accommadate him and explain when I can go or he can, with him or whatever it is, how long he can do it for etc. If he does threaten then I dont let him go he gets upset but this is how I have always dealt with it sometimes we can have a serious meltdown.

Basically he behaves in this manner when he wants his own way and expects us to accommodate him immediatley. If not we get whole speel of how we hate him, he hates this family etc. I know this can be meltdowns but he does this to get his own way. I know when he has a meltdown because he is stressed and I will deal with it differently. This is the balance I am asking about.

Annmarie, that is the way my son would act when he was stressed to the near breaking point. The more stress, the more he would try to control the world around him, every little thing. At that point it wasn't usually about the specific request at all, but the need to feel he had something in this world that would respond to him. He was actually vey unaware he was doing it, or of the connection. I had to look back over the past day or few days and try to ferret out the possible stress factors, and then get him to acknowledge that they were the problem. I also learned to divert him into a self calming calming activity at those times, "we'll talk about your request after you've paced (or swung, or jumped, etc) for a while, I think that will help will help you feel better, I can see you are upset right now.". That sort of diversion can throw your whole day off schedule, but you do it anyway; it is an investment in getting your child to understand his needs and be able to express them accurately and reasonably, and to be able to self-mitigate. Your whole world will change if you can get him across that hurdle, it took us years, but it is so incredibly important.

Hi DW_a_mom

I understand want you have said, I have difficulty also with expressing myself especially when writing. It causes me great frustration as I feel sometimes I don't get my point across.

I understand my son's meltdowns when he is stressed or in other situations and we talk about what cause them and try to resolve, fix, compromise etc.

My son will threaten and will say things like if I don't go here and I have to go there I will ruin your day. He will do that regardless of the consequences, he will threaten to behave inappropriate before we go. If he decides he doesn't want his cousin who is more like a sibling to attend something with us he will and can be very unkind to him. He will tell me that he will do this before the event. He will then hang with his cousin when he chooses to and if his cousin declines he gets upset. He will threaten to get him back and he will.

I talk to him and explain that he hurts others when he does this, like when he feels it, and he will tell me daily how bad things are for him.

My question then is this all part of AS or not, am I looking for a balance that is not there, maybe I am misunderstanding. I can understand if he gets stressed or finds himself in a stressful situations holds this till he gets home and then has a meltdown. I find it hard if he is threatening to behave like this even before the event. When he acts like this I do try and talk to him reach a compromise but if he has decided its going to be rubbish or whatever then it becomes a nightmare. I do make allowances he will want to come shopping with me and it turns into a disaster. He will then feel I don't want him to go shopping because I hate him and I am trying to get rid of him etc. I will take him shopping if he wants but I do explain it gets stressful for him and then for me. To be honest I would rather do shopping without him because it gets him stressed but not for the reason he thinks. We have these scenarios all the time.

When he decides that he will ruin our day he will do this without others noticing he is very good at that. I do try to accommodate his needs if he doesn't want to come with me then I try and find an alternative he sees this as me hating him and not wanting him to come or be part of the family.

Ah, he's got a little bit of my daughter in him, too, I see ... That makes it more complicated. I'll have to come back; not enough time for that right now.
---
A small bit of what I'm thinking, that I'll fill out a bit over intervals as I get chances to post.

With my daughter, I think, that behavior comes from a desperate want to become happy at a point in time where, time has taught us, she just can't be happy. And if she can't be happy, her sense of fairness seems to dictate that no one be happy. Stress, depression, lack of sleep ... Still working that out. But the kicker is that you can give in all you want and the child will still be miserable. Until they understand that connection, you can't fix it, but you can limit how people are stuck suffering from the negative mood. Sometimes they just need to cry for hours; sometimes they need to make choices going in that they will roll with it and stay upbeat. But it is a very stubborn problem to solve and I think professional counseling may be indicated; it really strikes me as chemical depression (I've been lazy about taking that step, because the tide always magically turns with her when I'm about to get to it, so other things will move up over it on that mile long to do list.)

I don't think all of that is down to being AS. I think there's a large part of being a very intelligent kid who, like all kids, wants his own way. How old is your son? My daughter is 17 and when she tries on the 'if x goes then I'm making trouble routine type thing' I say fine, then you'll stay at home. I've been at a festival with her and taken her home part way through because she's making everyone miserable to get her own way. Maybe it's my aspieness but I can't be doing with that kind of nonsense at all.

My son has just turned 13, I agree with you, I normally take the no-nonsense approach when he behaves in that manner. Most times I try compromise it works at times depends on the mood. I have had to go home, change plans etc. He seems to understand in the now but the same thing will happen over and over next day etc.

He has an appointment today with a psychiatrist hopefully I will get some answer regarding his moods. I am feeling very apprehensive worried I think another dx I know he is the same child regardless of the label, but it doesn't stop the worry. I am hoping they will offer CBT he needs it!

He has been doing play therapy for over a year but doesn't want to go any more I understand he feels he is too old. It probably has served it purpose as now he can express his feelings better which has been positive.

I am expecting another dx, but it will still come as a shock another punch in the gut so to speak.

13 eek! So not only have you got AS to deal with, you've also got stroppy teenage angst to deal with. And to be fair, so has hem his hormones are doing somersaults. My daughter, like lots of teenagers, went through the wearing black, I'm depressed, everyone hates me zone around that time. But she did come out of it eventually.

I understand the teenage yrs, but he has always behave in the way I described.

I think I'd be inclined to be quite firm. You can certainly discuss decisions and negotiate how things are going to be, after all, he's learning to be a grown up. But ultimately you are the parent and once you have made a decision, taking into account what he has to say, still to it and don't allow him to manipulate you. It sounds to me like you are doing the right thing. I know it seems like an endless battle but it does start to get easier. With my daughter the easing off started around 15. She's 17 now and still has her moments. She too was a teenager from about 2.

I think there's a different part of the puzzle here, and it's something I struggle with: kids with AS are terrible sources of feedback. If your expectations of an NT kid are too high, and you push them, they will probably let you know you need to back off.

If your AS kid has the same difficulty dealing with and expressing emotion as mine does, it takes a lot of detective work to figure out where to set your expectations. It's difficult to tell if he's melting down because you pushed him too far, or because he otherwise had a bad day, or because his socks have seams, or because somebody hurt his feelings last week. On the one hand, he needs to grow and learn and therefore needs gentle pushing, but on the other hand there are an awful lot of factors to keep track of.

Many kids with AS lack a "thermometer" to tell them how intensely they are feeling, and this plays into it, too. My son can melt down with the same intensity over something he dislikes (but is perfectly able) to do, with the same intensity as he will with something he's completely unable to do. Figuring out the difference has been a real challenge. We are working with him to better identify his feelings and to modulate his reactions, but it's a long road. We have this with physical pain as well, we call it his "on/off" switch. He is completely unable to differentiate between levels of pain, and reacts the same to a hangnail as he has to injuries requiring stitches. I've found myself both over- and under-reacting in various different situations. It's really scary for a parent to not be able to trust the answer to "Are you OK?"

This sometimes feels manipulative, but it's completely out of my son's control; he just isn't able to see the difference between preferences and needs, minor and major. Unfortunately, I don't have a good strategy to deal with it.