NT son learning to be autistic from AS dad?

Post Reply New Topic

That's me, the AS dad.
I have a 6 year old son who has certainly got his quirks, and has been tested as highly gifted, but from a young age has not demonstrated autistic traits at all. He's always been pretty good about eye contact, emotions, and communication.
Lately, though, things have started to worry me.

My concern is that over time, he seems to have acquired some "aspie" traits that were not there before. I've suspected for a while that he might be imitating my behavior and mannerisms, but then just the other day while having a rather frank talk about my condition (I haven't been doing well lately) he told his mom that he "was trying to be like Poppy", and that he gets frustrated with me a lot.

Any parents on the spectrum ever have to deal with something like this? It's an unfortunate situation, being that for a son to imitate his father is perfectly natural, but when the son is NT and the father is AS, it is anything but. I don't want my son learning maladaptive traits or having the same problems that I have. How can I balance these things out?

What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks!

My thought is that aspie traits are not maladaptive unless you want them to be. I'd be thrilled if my children started taking on some of my wife's and my aspie traits.

Alright, let me specify. I'm not talking about the intelligence/interests/detail-oriented traits that can indeed be assets under certain conditions. I mean the traits of not looking people in the eye and avoiding socialization, repetitive stimming behaviors including self-mutilation (picking at skin/hair), odd facial expressions and body gestures, etc...
I don't see how these traits are anything but maladaptive. They cause problems for him socially at school, and make family interactions difficult. He's avoiding social contact because I do. He doesn't know the extent to which social contact confuses and distresses me. It never distressed him before, but now he thinks that is the right way to act because I do it. The picking behavior sometimes leaves his arms and legs covered with sore spots that don't heal. These things are not OK, and it worries me that he seems to be getting these behaviors from being around me.

I suppose if I could live in my own little isolated world, or that my son could live in his, then these things wouldn't be problems. But that's not reality. I'm not proud of having AS. It's caused me nothing but trouble in life. I don't want my son to have this experience if he doesn't have to.

Lack of reliance on eye contact and facial expressions does actually have its advantages. While it makes face to face interactions with other neurotypicals more difficult, it has meant that I've always been able to communicate over the phone much better than most people, and it also makes written communications, such as email, more natural.

I'm not a big fan of the type of social contact one gets in school. Lots of kids of exactly the same age doing the same thing, supervised by one adult? Outside of the infantry, real life is not like that.

I'll grant I can't think of any advantages to self mutilation. I'd think subconscious habits like that would be rather difficult to pick up socially, though, at least if they actually lead to injury. Perhaps he is simply aspie, and not picking it up from you.

If your son is not Aspergian himself then he will either outgrow these habits or merely forget about them after he becomes more independent and spends more time away. If your son is neurotypical, then the habits he is picking up from his father are no different than habits that he will pick up from friends at school or in the neighborhood.... and in turn, he will forget those when he moves on to another peer group.

However... on the other hand, since he is only six, how can you be sure that he is not an Aspergian? I'm NOT A DOCTOR, just a local advocate, but it is my opinion that it is very difficult to determine whether a child is on the shallower end of the spectrum until at LEAST eight years of age. At six, we may be going to school and forming friendships, but we still are not yet faced with the challenges that make a significant difference. Many experts agree with me.

I wrote in my book that I would not have gotten a diagnosis of Asperger's (if it were available then) as a small chld because I appeared to socialize just fine and I did well academically, Then at nine we changed schools and disaster ensued... I lost my routines and familiarity!

If your son's behavior persists even after the end of the school year, then I would get him evaluated again, but don't rush it.

If it were me, I would get some professional counseling for the two of you. I agree with dyingofpoetry that he could be an aspie. My son socialized quite normally at your son's age. A good counselor would help you work with him whether he is an aspie or not.

So are all the things he is doing the same as what you do....the same stimms? the same skin picking? because sometimes there are Aspie traits that do not show up until a child gets older. My son was diagnosed at age 6 but they told us that he was not typical...but he did have enough traits plus I had AS and my younger daughter has Classic Autism. Now he is nearly 9 and has far more typical Aspie traits that are nothing he has copied from me. He also is not bad with eye contact and never has been......Im terrible with eye contact. I would say if the things he is doing are completely mimicking you then yes but if his stims and behaviors are different, even a bit different it could be that his traits are simply showing more. The skin picking can be from anxiety which tends to increase as an autistic child gets older.

I will fourth or fifth or whatever number we're on the idea that your child might actually be showing Aspie traits, rather than copying your behavior. Let's put it this way: an NT child would probably notice right away that Aspie behaviors do not get the responses he wants from his peers, and he'd stop doing them. Kids do not deliberately engage in behaviors that cause them to be isolated socially unless something else is going on.

I guess the question I would ask: does he behave this way only at home? I guess I could see where an NT kid might try to mimic his parent's AS behavior in order to socialize with that particular parent, but I'd expect the behavior to be isolated.

i think it would be best to have a talk with him yourself, asking about his behaviors that you see as aspie, and trying to figure out if they are conscious or unconscious actions. keep in mind also that aspies tend to not be diagnosed until later than those with classic autism, more in the range of where your son is just entering, and its because the social demands on children change greatly as they get closer to the pre-teen and teen years.

the skin picking you describe sounds pretty severe, and at that severity it is almost undoubtedly painful both when picking and in general due to the inflammation and scabbing of the area. i doubt someone would go to such lengths simply to imitate another. it is much more likely that it is a truly compulsive action for him, in which case the pain would not be a deterrent and may even be pleasurable.

our middle son is 7 and NT, or as we sometimes call it, "NT... for now." he is a social butterfly and loves to be with people, but he also shows some traits of asd or ocd. his eye contact is only so-so, he pulls compulsively at his eyelashes and lips, picks his skin around his nails until they bleed, and sometimes has uncontrollable, unreasonable mini meltdowns. he is definitely not at the same place on the spectrum with his little brother and father, but there are some traits there that we can see. so we are just waiting and watching.

also keep in mind, there are more things out there than just asd =) so even if your son is showing symptoms, there is no guarantee that it is asd. skin picking can be a symptom of other things as well, or it could just be a quirk that he outgrows. my SO is not a skin picker at all, but our little autie and our 7 yo NT are.... thats something that they get from me actually, i am not really asd, but i got my own brand of crazy going on, and they seem to have gotten my skin picking gene.

Exactly what I was just thinking.

If your son truly is NT and gifted, I'd imagine that an open and calm chat about why he should try not to copy your more 'undesirable' mannerisms would be very helpful. If he's intelligent and has good language skills, you should be able to explain to him in a way that he can easily understand, that some of your traits are due to a 'condition' or 'illness' - I'm not sure exactly how you'd want to put it - and that you wish you could stop doing them but that you just can't.

And perhaps you could also try not to display the more 'undesirable' mannerisms in front of him. Would that be possible? If you pick your hair, perhaps a very short haircut would help you not to do that. If you pick at the skin on your arms, maybe you could wear long sleeve tops to conceal your scabs and only pick at them when your son isn't watching you. Perhaps your wife/partner could take your son to groups/clubs where he could do some socialising? Perhaps you could explain to him that dad gets nervous around lots of people but that's no reason for him to be the same?

All those ideas are only if your son really *IS* NT and just copying you though, and like a lot of other people have already said, I think there's a fair chance that he's not. He sounds a lot like me at that age, apart from the self mutilating. I was a very gifted child and very sociable up till about age 5, then I gradually became more withdrawn and self contained. It was always put down to shyness and 'bookishness' due to being gifted, with the result that I went completely undiagnosed until a few years ago (age 36)...

Oh, edit: And like other people also said, there's a lot more possibilities than just NT or AS. Skin picking is a nervous/compulsive trait that could be nothing to do with AS/autism. Perhaps he's now at an age where he's realising that you are different from most of the other adults he's had contact with, and he's struggling to make sense of it...

Well my Mum has AS and ADHD and always hid herself well. I never knew anything was weird with her and when she realised she had AS i never believed her because she acted so normal!

But I do seem to have acquired some things because of this. For example because she takes language literally, metaphores and 'sayings' were never really used in the house, so when people use them they'll confuse me at quite and i feel like an idiot!

I also have a slight facial recognition problem I never realised I had which she has. Some things are inherited or picked up, regardless of not having the condition.

it is possible that he actually is mildly impacted AS himself.
i also was quite outgoing and even social untill i turned 5 or 6; getting on the lap of random strangers in a bus and talking their ears off was more rule then exeption in those early days; later i regressed, turning full-blown autistic (i have seen videos of myself in that age; ready for a documentary), only to turn into a mildly effected AS by the age of 15-ish.

A point about skin-picking -- there might be a physical reason behind it. My husband always thought my skin-picking was a form of self-mutilation; actually, I have eczema. Now that I've learned how to keep in under control it's mostly okay, but at certain times will flare up again.

He could be imitating you to make yourself more aware of things that annoy him.

Maybe your son has some aspie traits that are coming out.

Also, it can be hard to figure out how to socialize if you never see your parents do it.

If you cannot stop picking your skin/hair, I would avoid doing it in front of your son--do something else to keep your hands occupied--a more socially acceptable stim.

I would suggest getting your son involved in some school clubs or organizations--something structured with a regular calendar of events so he does not have to call people to invite them over. Inviting people can be more stressful than actually going some place where there are a lot of people.

Also, I would rack your brain and see if there is some kind of club or organization that you and/or your wife would enjoy. Maybe even something where families get together for regularly scheduled outings. If never works to tell your kids to be social if they see you at home all of the time.

Depending upon the maturity of the child and whether you have a strong father-son relationship, you might also consider discussing your concerns with him. If you have a poor relationship with your son, he won't listen to you, though. You have to do things together, tell him you love him, etc., or he will not listen to you.

I wish that my own husband, who has issues stemming from bipolar disorder, would show the same maturity in worrying about how his behavior impacts his kids. I'm an aspie myself and know that I need to do better.