Drugs for AS children

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After reading a couple of posts in the Parenting section , in the hope of getting more insight, I was intrigued/alarmed at the use of drugs for AS type kids. If they are truly Autisitc then this can be understandable. But AS isn't all that bad.....

here is my experience, as I have already noted to another forum for parents.....

Hi
After reading the definition of asperger's on wikipedia I found your website. I was hoping for a forum/bulletin board.

Reading your header 'Parents with asperger's family member' I thought it prudent to share some of my experiences with it.

-I am 28 and only realise now

Throughout my childhood - I was the anti social kid.
Looking into people's eyes is still something I have difficulty with.
Motor skills underdevelopment.
Comprehension was lacking - and in numerous tests , to this day I will fail reading and comprehension exercises.
and of course an above average desire to concentrate on 'MY' aspirations. , in my case it was LEGO and electricity. (my first electrocution was at 6)


What I would like to share with you is my supposed integration into neuronormal society (with what I thought was alot of pain, but nonetheless I believe I am well adjusted today)



My first day of Kindergarden:
-I was outcast (though all children would feel this way, social disparity lasted)
-The solution was a good hard knock on the nose by a 'bully' , amzingly enough this brought about friendships that I presume were procured due to a 'bleeding heart' tendancy of all creatures. It spawned instances of social educational value throughout my kindergarden year (Although I would have to admit, very little).

Primary Education:
-Again outcast....
The ethnic population in the primary school was concentrated in pools of Greek enthnicity: 6 Miscelaneous Ethnicisty: 8 Remainder:20 , due to my darkbrown hair I fell into the greek group. Amazingly enough my inability to understand thier language (while they inadvertantly learnt bad manners from thier parents) probably helped in my ability to read underlying converstaions.
Motor skills: Yes I had two left hands untill grade 3... My schools 'One team' attitude and friday football helped alot. I went from a bench warmer to Ruck (yes I was tall) and only kicked 1 goal in 4 years (and missed 1 too!)
Grade 5 teacher: The teacher in this level, and the underlying social trend at the time called for 'brainwashing' pupils with hippie rhetoric (save the planet stuff). My farther was a carpenter and therfore a proponent to the destruction of the ozone layer and greenhouse warming, so I thought it my responsibility to shout out at the teacher about her 'facts'. Now this can be seen as the typical Asperger just being himself, but I think it actually taught me the appropriatness of certain aspects about voicing my opinion. (I still do do it a little to this day, but thankfully enough only a little)

Social Club education:
I was a scout....
Which also helped with motor skills. (I also bought a dirtbike, which helped the most, having to have to control all four limbs and still stay upright is very good for motorskills)
This was a 'different' social group, where I could test other forms of social interaction. and to this day, my friends are my scout freinds. The rudimentary and task based structure was also agreable with my nature.

Secondary education:
-Again outcast - for my first 2 years I was in hell, (Luckily there were enough others that I could share my grief with)
After my grief was over, a big proportion went to my time learning the 'rope learnable' subjects, maths, sciences, technology. Interestingly enough english also became in interest when in year9 a lazy teacher liked to mark everything up, giving me the highest english grade in that year level. (He liked to grade on creatitvity, and not grammar)
Marijuanna and the social group it allowed me to join was also a help (although the use of marijuanna probably exacerbated my condition) - the type of group that the 'choofers' adhere too are globally unifiable. All will talk with slurred speech and excessivly agree about bongs, joints, marijuana types with single head nodds while saying 'yeah man'. Interestingly enough this was a great help with my social integration, giving me the ability to easily blend and be comfortable, without having to read the underlying subject (Actually marijuanna users will usually lose the ability to read instinctivly into any underlying subject matter that straight people would normally observe)


University:
-Everyone is an outcast
-I was still choofing, so my social groups were formed around that common interest. - sadly this did not help with my education, but to this day I am more social adept than I believe I would be.


My first GirlFirend:
At the age of 20: I don't know if this helped as much, instead I belive it probably did detriment to my social confidence. In the first 2 weeks of the relationship, her mother was already telling me I shouldn't be with her daughter. I would have agreed with her and 'dumped' the girl, but not knowing how I kept with her (I did try and dump her but it just didn't work) The next four years was the most socialy anxious time of my life. Every stare, and even breath was considered to me tobe some sort of communication from the parents. (And her too after a while) with time the only way the relationship ended was when I made it to hospital and was diagnosed with physchosis. (I recovered in 2 weeks after they stopped feeding me drugs)



Today, I work as a carpenter: a semi social environment. Dealing with customers, builders and architects isn't a problem (then again it always is! )


-I believe there are only a few but simple ingredients necessary to raise a child with tendancies towards aspergurs symptoms.

A. Ignore the child.... don't be the typical loving parent
B.Be an 'out going' family ... try restaurants and outings with long term friends, simple things like ettiqutte will slowly be instilled, even when the child fells that they should bring thier lego to the restaurant!
C. , a seond social group will help the child have a 'fall back' social group. (I usually tested social techniques at school and applied them at scouts) , a third an fourth social group is probably not called for (I also did ethnic dancing for 2 years - which was hell) - too many social groups can also be a problem - too many different friends to see and have dinner parties with will just have the child blend all the groups into 1. Having distinct and relevant close friends will have a stronger impact on societal training.
D. Don't muffle the child... sometimes corner the child into doing things that are obviously 'in the difficult' section puts un-needed stress on the child. Though the occasional pushing will help to to teach that sometimes 'you just have to do it' and not become an introvert.
E. Provide many upon many hobbies. Usually an aspergurs type kid will find thier hobbie. But layin out other offshoot hobbies to occupy will help aleviate the mind about the days saocial problems. eg. they like lego, go past the mecano set's at Toyworld. eg. they like lego, pretend your going to build a new house for the family and your desinging it, and would like input from the child: you may find that they end up becoming an architect. eg. they like electricity, give them battery operated toys to pull apart and take them to the local RC hobby shop.
F. Give them tools for thier hobbie: eg.The little cook that loves to mix things in the kitchen, should also have a beaker set and a microscope. In my case I was lucky, having my fathers tools at my disposal.
G. Give up : I will admit that in a worst case aspergers symptoms it is probably better to let the person to grow up to be scientist they may end up being, so in these cases leaving 'Popular Science' magazines lying around and some old chemistry text books will do great benifit to your retirement.


-Being the aspergers type of person I have probably been blatant in my communication, for this I am sorry....but I do have an excuse(not being sarcastic, for those that are reading the underlying meaning in the last phrase as being so).

glad you're here....
my only comment , really, is about meds
both my aspie hubby & aspie son are on meds due to their anxiety levels & sleep issues....both are much less anxious than they used to be~it doesn't change the fact that they have aspergers...i'd be sad if it did.

Erlyrisa, I have read several of your posts and will comment on this one. The last thing I want for my son is to over medicate him. One thing we as parents have to remember is that our children may be all over the AS spectrum. Even as NT's display a wide variety of differences so do Aspies. What aplies to one person may not be right for another, my wife has diabetes and I do not, I don't take her meds and she doesn't take mine for migraine headaches. My son has shown improvement in areas of sleep, concentration and control of his outbursts with the help of medication. Without this chemical help he would much more miserable and so would the rest of the family. hope I said this right, for some meds may help , for some other alternatives must be used.
Bear with us , we are all human... at least so far. I am glad for your successes and sympathize with your hurts and wish the best for you.

My son is considered "high functioning autistic" and is 7. Early on, in his toddler years, we were recommended/offered ritalin for his sleeplessness, lack of ability to focus and tantrums. We declined them because 1)there was no study/evidence on the effects of ritalin on autistic people 2) two years old is too young for such a caustic drug, 3)we felt/feel that most of his tantrums were communication based and all he needs are better coping skills.

I don't regret any decision we've made in that regard. Later on, in kindergarten, we were recommended anti-anxiety meds or blood pressure meds that effect anxiety (!). Never followed up on it. Don't regret it.

I feel that the formative years are for teaching and supporting. It's the safest time for tantrums because you can physically defend yourself and your child. I've done a lot of reading into adolescence and I feel that I should give my son all the coping mechanisms before he is 10 or 11. Then, when he hits that change, we can decide to go from there. I have read that autistic teens, especially "high functioning" kids, can have a high depression and suicide rate. If there will be a time for drugs, I want him to start from scratch and for the right reasons.

Temple Grandin waited until after college. She had massive anxiety issues, but felt that she would have lost her focus and stamina if she were on drugs. I knew another autistic adult that was actually misdiagnosed until his 30's, he also took meds later on and was successful in finishing college and getting a great job.

I think that KiMj has go it right.....

The drugs just take the person out of thier reality --making it even more difficult to 'LEARN' what they need in order to becaome at one typical society.

-I have a firend on which as he was growing up, his parents kept get hime diagnosed, re-diagnosed ,etc etc ,,, it was only at the age of 8 when the parents finally just 'GAVE UP' ,and said, that he is waht he is,,, that he started to "LEARN AGAIN" -- it took him another 15 years to start to seem NTypical... he kept at the things which he hadn't learnt, while he wasn't on the drugs - yes the people around him had a hard time coping with his personality.... but it's the fact that they had a hard time that gave him the life lessons he needed.... being teased, excluded, punished etc are all good things that every child should experence -- my veiw at the moment is , that Atism is a result of the NANNY generation, that pertain to muffling and padding thier child, expecting their child to be not only the safest child, but the brightest ---again I iterate -- I know a kid that got the drugs and is still getting them today -- Atuism can easily go the other way, where the child will never learn the simplest things,, like balcnsing thier head upon thier spine, or realising thier outward appearance gives rise to cause and effect -- this is a child at about the age of 9 months in a 25 year old body ---He is still on the drugs --untill he is off them, he will never be able to utilise the processing power , and memory storage techniques you nad me take for granted.... he doesn't forget because his mind is physically wrong ,, he doesn't remmeber because he has been on drugs from the time he was born.... the parents are the ones that are respnsible....

Again I apologise for being harsh ---but the rest of the world, like the third world,, don't look for self help books and durgs as being the aswer to every problem.

-It's the NT west that has 'Forgtotten' what it is to be ALIVE!

I don't think you are being harsh Erlyrisa, just honestly expressing your opinion and I value that. I just spent some time talking with my son about his meds. He feels they have helped and does not want to be without them. We have tried different meds and do combine them with various coping mechanisms. Some of the meds have had terrible results. We, Parents and doctors, keep him on the lowest effective doses and monitor him for adverse side effects. He also has asthma and migraine headaches. Should we take him off these also. He will never be a NT and I don't want him to be one. We all have to live in this modern society, at least now we don't lock these kids up and keep them isolated from "normal people". We still have our difficult times but watching him grow and develop and be happy with himself is something I wouldn't trade for the world. I value your input and will evaluate and take what I can use for the betterment of both my children.

Thank you and don't take offense if I don't agree with all you say.

--I know it's hard....

It's hard to let go of the typical MEDIA teachings --your defacto parent.

..Some other info that maybe prudent to parents....

ASTHMA IS AUTISM

--SAY IT AGAIN and repeat until you understand

ASTHMA IS -IS it REALY well and TRULY IS ---AUTISM.

Everyone at one piont in thier lives (usually the first time will be when you didn't remmeber ... when you were just an infant) will find it difficult to breath ,some infants will quickly recover, others will die of SIDS ,,, the kids that make it will always Trigger thier heavy panting dependant on what they have memorised as the CUE for an 'Attack'...... This is why asthmatics, will slowly learn over time, what it is that makes them trigger thier deep emotional senses to BREATH with the wrong techniques.

-What's that I hear you say - my son developed it because of sports --well the first time they actually had to physically demand resources from their body -they got a fright - they actually thought they weren't going to die, before the were going to die - in effect putting themselves into a loop... the sadest part is these kids will take the longest to learn, that passing the pain barrier is the only way to get rid of thier subconscience telling them that they should breath with emotion rather than thought.

Autism --everyone has got it - you just don't know it....

Here is some good advice about life....

Be Friendly To your Enemy
What You have already learnt needs no more practise
Learn to be your enemy
Repeat untill you find a new.

This is the loop of Life.

Astma is Autism, now that is an interesting thought, never heard it before. I can see the link between his asthma and his anxiety attacks. I'm going to have to do some more research in this area, thanks for the thought.

See Erlyrisa I told your opinions were valuable.

Some notes to add about asthma - incae anyone still doesn't beleive me....

You know that thing little babies do sometimes with thier breath and mouth...where they make several short repetitions of breath in succesion..usually about 3, sometimes more, utpo about 10?

-Well this isn't asthma, it's the kid expressing thier emotions - they are overwhelmed by their emotion.. you know a kid that is really happy, first they take a deep breath, than they expell some of it, but then do another intake of breath, in succession...

..Now look at asthma attack --it's pretty much the same thing -except now as an 'old kid /adult ' it keeps on going - they quit literally put thier mind into a non escapable loop.

...So, what did the parent do wrong to bring on asthma... well babies get emotional don't they - thing is so do the mothers... when the mother rewards thier child for making these strange breaths during happy or even sad moments - they are re-inforcing the action of asthma, everytime the child feels deep emotion ... you have quit literally robbed the child from ever being able to have deep heart felt emotion without triggering a stored procedure termed asthma.

-In Australia, when the old generation see an asthmatic having an attack, you know what they say? -How's it going, you got the attention you were after? -if the asthmatic is still panting (and may have gotten worse because they realise what the comment means) the old generation advocate bobs down infront of them face to face and asks... How about know?, Is that enough attention? -if they start panting even harder, and are know requiring an emergency room --you have taught them well... in time they will remmeber that time they went the emergency room, the emotion they felt...and with luck switched off the action that makes them seek attention.

I actually thought stimulant drugs, and anti depressant types where used on children with other disorders such as ADD, ADHD, narcolepsy and so on...

I have high fuctional autism, and i was offered ritalin, adderall, and anti depressants, but i have never really needed them to be honest, usually when i stare into a blank space for a while, my college tutors just let me get on with it, it hasnt really hindered my learning at all, because i was always quick to catch up with my peers.

NT's have literally forgotten what it is to hold on to a BY thought.... you remmber the times your parent would tell you to stop day dreaming, and just get on with it....

I for one have learnt to be able to switch.... yes my by thoughts can be numerous,,, but on the whole I continue working. (well somtimes I forget whst I was doing..but many an NT does too)

Fraz, you are right, stimulants are given for ADHD, my son has both and has other dxs pending. He takes adderal for his ADHD, others for sleep disorder and anxiety. His meds have helped him, but he doesn't take any specific meds for Aspergers. Just because they work for him does not mean they will work for everyone. We live in an extremely complex world and each case must be treated on an individual basis. That is why I dislike the whole "social norms", don't pigeon-whole me, I and my son are individuals.

Yeah, i understand.

I dont mind young children taken this stuff, its just the thought of it getting forced down them that gets to me.

My Aspie son has ADHD, and receives medication to help him focus at school. I resisted having him take the medication for a long time. We tried everything we could think of: diet, behavior modification, etc. Unfortunately, nothing worked and his learning was suffering. We eventually had him try Ritalin, but that made him feel weird. Then he tried Concerta on the lowest effect dose and that helped him tremendously. He says it doesn't make him feel weird, and that it really helps him stay focused at school.

He has asked a few times to quit taking the medication, and we have tried each time he has asked. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to keep it together and his grades start to fall sharply, so we have to put him back on. He's alright with this decision and knows that when he thinks he is ready to try again, we will support him.