acting like a monkey in school situations

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(I'm making this it's own thread off of the gluten free thread.) DW and all,
I homeschool, plus my son is in an intense homeschool cooperative class on Fridays. In the class, he "acts like a monkey" and incites others to do the same. In class and at home he frustrates the teacher trying to talk over him. "Acting like a monkey" means he puts on high voices and cute facial expressions. He also speaks quietly, but irritatingly, while the teacher speaks. He doesn't move out of his seat or bounce around or anything like that.

I was trying to get him to ask for a break when he needed one. Well, he acts out early in the class so he doesn't quite need a break. Plus he refuses to take one. Now I figure he is nervous about the new class. He is also uncomfortable learning something new so I think that's why he talks and makes noises while teachers are trying to talk.

Questions: Are there other possible explanations for why he constanty makes noises under the teacher? What about the monkey shines? I know he gets some positive reinforcement from other kinds for the monkey shines but he is also losing friends because of them. They are not boy-ish.

Secondly, do you have any suggestions as to what to do? I was thinking of giving him gum to keep his mouth busy with a distraction. DW was saying on another thread that this may cause other problems. Any ideas or direction I should go in?

This is our third year of doing this particular program. I only put him in it b/c he really came alive when we visited. It seemed a perfect fit. Up to now, the kids have pretty much accepted him. I'm not sure why he may be so uncomforable in the class, if that is what is going on.

Ah, that is a very different monkey than my son! My son mostly moves and sits like a monkey, but he doesn't sound like a monkey.

I don't recall saying gum could cause other problems ...

But if you think this might be an oral stim, you could try straws. My son likes to chew on straws to think and stay focused.

Have you asked him why he does it? Is he aware he does it?

Thanks, DW. I do think it's a stim or maybe a way to relate. My friend's aspie, a few years older than my son, uses a high voice when thanking people. He thinks that's what he's supposed to do, and his mom can't convince him otherwise.

Is he aware? I think so on some level. I can't get a clear answer from him as to why he does it. He knows I don't approve of the behavior in some circumstances so he is probably reluctant to tell me why he feels he needs it. He was much happier when I told him he needed to make noise to act like a monkey, so I would like him to substitute chewing gum instead.

Here is the quote from you that intrigued me: "If you address the behavior without understanding why he does it all you've done is cause new issues." I'd love it if you'd expand on: "the relationship between the conscious mind, and the unconscious mind, can operate very differently, which would be why ABA does work in certain situations. But I think one has to be very very careful what they chose to apply that type of therapy to. It is not a magic solution."

So you think this applies to these issues with my son?

Oh my, I hadn't realized how much my own ramblings could force me to think!

On the first, maybe I overstated my case. I do feel that way, and strongly, yes, but something like gum is likely to act more as a redirect, than a strict behavior protocol, and the fun thing with redirects is that picking the right one allows you to get away without knowing the why. If the redirect ends up serving the unidentified need, then all is good.

The second is more complicated. I don't have many thoughts on how it interacts with ABA, that was a throw out for the one poster I was responding to, but I do know that my son has expressed a relationship between conscious and subconscious that I cannot relate to. He tells me that he wrote scripts when he was younger that he put into his subconscious mind and that years later he could no longer control those same scripts. Apparently it isn't as easy as writing a new script and sending it back there. Perhaps that is what the child with high thank you voice did: wrote a script at a critical junction, and it became part of his subconscious. I have no idea how it all works, except to say I've seen a lot of evidence with my son and on the boards on how lingering and compelling internal scripts can become for those with AS, even when the script is later proved to be wrong. One of these days I do want to explore that whole avenue of thought (you'll see I put a marker for the idea in my WP blog), but there never seems to be the time, and it is such a rough question right now .... I'll probably never get it into full form, but it is an intriguing observation to consider in many situations.

Side note: the problem with even the best of scripts is that they can never apply all the time. Something to be really careful of when we realize how strongly our kids integrate those scripts.

This is really something another thread made me think of, but I just didn't want to say it there ...

My daughter barks at everyone, so I understand what you mean. She acts like dogs and cats and tries to get others involved. It is usually when she has had enough and has no safe place to detox, so she makes her own and tried to create the surrounding of it. I just keep trying to explain to her that when we are at school, it is a person place, animals don't go to class. We can be animals at home because pets are at home. It helps some time, but a lot of times she goes there just to escape. I found it was because kids were mean to her so she was trying to be something other than herself. Maybe see what is triggering him to do this and you can tackle the reason.

Yeah - that's the problem. He won't tell me the trigger or reason b/c he already knows I disapprove.

My son doesn't go to that extreme....but he really sometimes acts VERY inappropriate, trying to be funny.....

Almost ALL of the time when he behaves this way, it was in situations where he was feeling inadequite....when we were talking about him (making him feel embarresed), when he was very stressed or didn't know what was expected of him....

Sorry...I can't help more, but maybe you can start by addressing each of these, like lessening the anxiety, roleplaying appropriate behaviour, talking, showing pictures of emotions that he might feel in that spesific situation?

If it were my son doing this I would say it is becuase he doesn't like or doesn't want to hear what the teacher is saying. My son will literally not stop talking when he knows I have something to tell him that he doesn't want to hear. I have yet to find a good solution to this with my son but thought I might throw that out there as a possible motivation for your son's behavior.

Is it possible that he actually doesn't like the sound of the teacher's voice or is just seriously un-interested in what she is trying to teach? Does he do it all the time or when she is talking about some specific subject?

As one doc put it to me (I'm paraphrasing here), what DS finds relevant in life is often not going to be what we as his parents or what his teachers want him to find relevant and if he does not see the relevance in a given situation he is very likely going to resist participating in it.

We have a space place in the classroom where DS can choose to go if he chooses not to participate in whatever activity the other children are doing. It is not a punishment, it is an alternative. Would something like that be possible for your son?

Thanks. All these things are possibilities. The teacher had an idea of a beanbag chair for his resting place. I was very grateful that she would consider dragging one in each Friday, but she couldn't find them in stores. I think the college bound bought them all up. I'll address that with her, since we've had two weeks under our belts and maybe she has thought of an alternative.

AAnn....just interestingly enough....I was looking for a beanbag chair for my son the other day and he informed me (to my surprise!) that he really doesn't like the sound of beanbags when he sits on them!

Just check with your son!
Regards

I was thinking beanbag chair for the space place but settled on an oversized pillow - it looks like a couch cushion. DS seems to like it. Actually, I can see him objecting to the sound of a beanbag but I hadn't thought of that before!