16 yr old Aspie step-son, lying constantly

Post Reply New Topic

Hi... I'm new to this forum. I've skimmed the site a few times but never joined until today, and I did so in tears. I'm hoping to get some advice.

Background: #1Son is 16 years old (just barely). He was fully diagnosed with Aspergers about 3 years ago, although the schools label him as "mildly autistic" in order to get him the things he needs (Aspergers isn't on their list... rght, whatever). He has, near as I can tell, been an Aspie since birth. He had very delayed toilet training and his language skills are very bad. Part of that is because of his other bio parent, who has insisted that he's "disabled" and treated him like a pet monkey from birth (grump... don't get me started).

I moved in with #1's dad about 4.5 years ago, and while it hasn't been an *easy* road, it's been a fun one. I was the one who immediately began working with #1 on his schoolwork and his social skills. I've had the opportunity to have several "disabled" friends over the years, and I know they disliked being treated any different, and so I resolved to do my best to treat #1 just like any other member of the family. That included not making special meals for him (there is no medical reason... he just refused to eat anything that wasn't pizza or mac'n'cheese before I showed up... 3 days of not eating and he turned around, and has been just fine ever since!), and expecting him to show me what his homework was, the same as his sister (2 years older, and 3 grades ahead).

#1 was in a school for severely developmentally handicapped children when I met his dad. He was being taught how to do things like tie his shoes and brush his teeth. We got custody, and immediately yanked him out of there and put him in a regular school. He did "so so" in the middle school we put him in (bad area), but then for his high school, we moved to a rural area where there are a lot of aspie and autistic kids, as well as those with crutches, wheelchairs, prosthetics, etc. No one really thinks he's all that different at this school, and he gets AWESOME help and aid. Even tho it is a regular high school, his classes are (all but one) under 15 students each, and most have both a teacher and an aide in them!

After long discussion with #1 and his dad, we decided that this year (his second year at this school), he was to record and do his homework on his own. We would ask him each day what homework he had, and we would ask if he'd gotten things finished (he sometimes *needs* that reminder, and we don't consider it excessive at all to give that to him), and other minor things of that sort. He convinced us that he could do this! We try our best not to hold him back when he wants to fly... so we did it.

Then interim reports came out. Turns out that, all those times we asked him if he was done his homework and he'd said yes... he was lying. Failing grades in every class. This is despite being asked to show random work. Unfortunately, I guess he managed to steer us toward whatever homework he HAD completed for the day, if any. He has done this before, every year I've been in his life, actually. We catch him, make him finish it all up, go over how bad it is to lie, make certain he understands what he's done, why it's not okay, etc etc ad nauseam. We thought we'd licked it last year, with the new school and everything. Guess not.

So we went through the routine. He had a week to pull his grades up, get his homework in, and we'd help all we could... only he flubbed it. When asked why, he basically said he didn't want to do it, and didn't think it was all that important.

Okay, we figured maybe in all the years we'd been after him, we'd never mentioned that it was *important* to do homework. So we went over just how important it was. We showed him in visuals. We went over how his IEP helps him get his work done. We assured him that we'd be willing to help at home, and dad helped by tutoring him in Geometry. We have done everything we can. The school has done everything and MORE.

Today, we found out he's still lying.

I finally threw up my hands. I know that he knows it's bad to lie, because he's been upset when his other parent or older sister has lied to him. I know that he's capable of doing these things, because we've seen him do them, over and over again, successfully. We've done everything that we can.

I told him that I can't help him anymore. I told him that until he's willing to help himself, and actually do some of HIS homework, there isn't anything that I can do. I'm not going to do it for him, and neither is dad, and neither is anyone else.

If he wants that badly to fail, then he can fail.

Now everyone's upset.

Has anyone else had something like this happen? I've been reading the boards a bit, and you all talk about having problems with the schools not giving help, etc, but we're just the opposite. We've had all the help we've wanted, and actually had to beat some of it off with a stick! Am I doing something wrong? Am I approaching it wrong? I'm at my wit's end and I just don't know what to do. I'm tired of being angry and frustrated with him, and I hate not finding something positive to tell him each day (which has been our goal... no matter how bad a day, to end it with a positive statement, to show that even if things are rough, we're progressing).

Help?

First of all, where are you located? Sounds like your school situation is AWESOME! I may just want to move there with my family!

I have two sons -- one is 20 years old, one is 10. Both are on the spectrum. We did have slight problems with lying with the 20 year old when he was sixteen. He is just barely on the spectrum, he really has "characteristics" of aspergers rather than full on aspergers. He was a bright boy, who tested well, but we could not get him to consistently hand in homework.

He made it into college based on really good SAT scores, but not great grades. He was INCREDIBLY immature at fifteen, and attending a very high pressure, snotty, wealthy high school. We then moved to a laid back California school at 16, and although he was still lying and not consistently handing in homework, he observed that he wasn't enjoying the kids he knew at this school. Although many of them were incredibly nice, they weren't very bright, and none of them were planning on attending a good college, if attending college at all. This seemed to really influence him.

We moved BACK to the snotty, wealthy, competitive school (we did this to get better educational opportunities for our younger boy, who has stronger asperger tendencies), where he began to take a very few Advanced Placement courses. We had suggested this years ago, but he resisted (you've experienced resistence from your son, right?). Well, he found out, he enjoyed the smart kids in AP classes. He found his "niche" with this group. The homework trickled in just a little bit better. I also think that he began to mature at this time. Common sense began to kick in. We didn't have constant endless loop reasoning sessions with him. He learned that Mom and Dad weren't the total idiots that he thought we were before. He is now in college and doing well, mostly because he wants to be there.

I guess my point is, first of all, maturity helped! Even a year meant all the difference. Also, something about this experience turned his head about education. What seemed slightly unimportant before became kind of a snobbish desire to be the smartest guy in the room (not that he was, but he liked being part of that group). If you can appeal to his BRAIN, and how bright he is, maybe you can point out that if he likes being around people as bright as he is, he will more than likely want to end up at a college/university. To get to that college/university, and to be able to study one of his obsessive interests (assuming that he has one, like most aspies), then he will WANT to go through what seems to be the tedious hoops one has to jump through to get to that point.

Now, on the other hand, I've had a friend from California with about five boys on the spectrum. She is a great mother (you sound a lot like her), and she had one kid who was obviously very bright, but basically refused to do schoolwork in high school. He just couldn't see the point. He apparently barely graduated. BUT, after graduation, he found a job with a robotics company, and although he doesn't have the degree, he will probably end up advancing with the company because he's so bright. It's his dream job, and he is taking courses one at a time at the local college.

I think many aspie kids just can't see the "point" to taking random courses at school that are not within the individual interest of the child. I'm not even sure that we as parents can explain "the point" to these courses, mostly because aspie kids are teenagers too, and don't want to believe us. Does your son admire someone outside of the family who could influence him positively? Does he have a specific interest that you could fuel? Or could you go back to reminding him of his responsibilities, as you have in the past? He may not like that, being treated like a kid again, and that could be enough to catapult him into taking his homework responsibilities seriously.

Well, I've gone on for more than long enough! But I do understand how difficult this is, and I think someone here (besides me) may come up with even better solutions to your problem.

Good luck!

Just wondering how much you have read about AS and some of the issues from the perspective of someone with AS?At 43,I find myself on both sides of this issue.As someone with no DX or help in school,I often "forgot" to do homework that had no interest for me.I often forgot to bring homework that I had done or was afraid to hand it in because of fear of "criticism" and looking stupid.I had difficulty in college turning in papers that I had spent days working on because they werent "perfect".
Inspite of all this ,I maintained A nad B's....dont really know how.(I also skipped a lot of school).

One thing that I would have hated but would have helped me is a class on taking notes because I had "orginizing" problems and would easily get overwhelmed.I needed my parents to "check up" on my work because I naturally procrastinate and my fear of their disapproval motivated me more then any thing else.I can understand wanting to teach him to be "independently motivated" but it just doesnt work for everybody.I need "structure" or I will easily get lost in my own world.I dont "mean" to,I just do.I would often think that I had plenty of time to do the work...I am a poor judge of time.I would suggest you return to what was "working" for him in the past even if you dont consider it "age appropriate"

If you have met several "disabled" friends over the years than that should have pretty much given the impression that if you have met one disabled person you have met one disabled person. Same thing with an autistic person - if you have met one autistic child they are an individual. I don't quite understand this "disabled" in the sense that they are a homogenous group with some sort of list of requirements. It is like those who say you must use people first language (person with autism instead of autistic) when some people with autism PREFER to refer to themselves as autistic.



Seems to me that you have decided that the only one in this relationship that needs improving is your son. Why is that? Often I think once a person has a label then they are viewed as the only one who needs to be improved upon. If he has sensed this than it may contribute to his not wanting to share his feelings or reasons. Realistically how open are you to the idea that the "plan" you guys have worked out now was not a good idea. If it is not working for him than what is the point. Maybe if he feels like he has some sort of say or help than it will validate him.



Is this the HELP your son wants and has he been able to sit in on IEP meetings and been able to verbalize what it is that he feels he needs help with or has he been convinced that he is not trying hard enough or should just be able to do this stuff. Sometimes you can function without any difficulties and other time you may need help - it is that sometimes these things are an effort or a struggle regardless of whether you are successful or not. I have had OCD for a LONG time - and one thing that seems to be a constant is that no matter how often people nod their head or read or claim they "understand" it they still have an underlying belief that you should just be able to knock off this behavior. Forcing you to eat food and starving you "for your own good" puts a barrier between you. Someone can say they "love" you all they want but you know they will do special things for other people because they want to but not for you because every interaction becomes some sort of "therapy".

I don't know what to tell you - except that he may not share your feelings that he just needs to adjust. The intent of my post was not to infuriate you because I can only get a little bit of information from your post - but to explain that sometimes when you are on the other side of the fence it is just as infuriating when people are claiming that they have made all these sacrifices or have done everything - and to you it seems like maybe all they have done is increased your anxiety to a level that makes things way more difficult. I recently read an article using the term "view from above" when referring to how people view others even with the best of intentions. You might find some of her writings interesting.
http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=203

Speaking as a former HS teacher, many kids--not just those with AS--don't see the long term consequences of their actions so don't expect that just because you've laid it out for him that he's going to get it. There is a lot of benefit to having a high school diploma these days and personally I wouldn't just throw in the towel at this stage of the game. I'd get him the support he needs to get through school.

Prior to this most recent arrangement of giving him full responsibility for homework was he doing the work and doing reasonably well in his classes? Did he need extra support from home and/or school to accomplish that? If so, maybe he just isn't at the point where he can handle this totally on his own and he's using lying as a way around that. The other thing I would question is maybe easing off support instead of handing over the whole works for the year and not checking until midterm might have been a better route to go. Why not give him responsibility for two weeks then adding on to that only if he's managed that shorter time well?

Another option would be to see what might be arranged with the school to get the homework done there instead of at home. Does he have a study hall at the end of the day and could an aide be assigned to that task? Homework can be the cause of some very negative relational aspects and I've known parents in your situation to work out arrangements with the school in order to maintain a positive parent-child relationship.

Pippen Wrote:

Another option would be to see what might be arranged with the school to get the homework done there instead of at home. Does he have a study hall at the end of the day and could an aide be assigned to that task? Homework can be the cause of some very negative relational aspects and I've known parents in your situation to work out arrangements with the school in order to maintain a positive parent-child relationship.


I agree with Pippen on this one.

Next week I am going to volunteering at a tutoring center teaching kids about computers.(one of my special interests )Whats great about these tutoring centers is that it allows kids to work on their homework, get extra help if they need it, pursue topics that interest them (such as computers) and work on other things such as self esteem and positive relationships.On Friday's they also have fun day where the kids are allowed to basically do what they want as long as they behave themselves. I think a tutoring center would be great for your stepson, as it will allow to get his homework and get help getting it done right, it'll give him something to do after school, it'll allow him to pursue his interests and possibly make friends with like minded people.

Allyson, ASD people don't really lie - they just have a different interpretation of reality.

I know you've done a lot for this guy, but how much in-put has he had in the process? My ASD kid is only 10 but we've learned that he MUST be included otherwise, nothing will happen. He has to own the decision or else I'm just listening to myself talk. I have to find a way to reach him and talk to/with him in a way he can understand. He has to be part of the process and I have to watch the signals and cues to make sure he's really into the conversation. This might sound weird, but your stepson may actually believe he's done all the homework he felt needed to be done.

my 14 year old is in a school now where they don't give homework~if you haven't learned it in school, then practicing at home isn't going to help you learn it any better. as an aspie, he LOVES this philosophy !
as much as you've said that you all sat down to have a discussion about homework & responsibility, are you sure he was actually listening ? my son will sometimes space out during a conversation & agree to things that later on, he has no recollection of agreeing to .it's a great idea to let him start taking responsibility, but maybe this all or nothing approach was not the best way to go....i'd apologize to my kid for putting alot of pressure on him ( to be independent), & then talk to him about ways that he feels he can become more independent ( that is, if he even *wants* to be independent)..the key is to really listen to what he's saying, and ask for his input.

I think you've made an excellent point too and it also made me think that sometimes when kids are doing good WITH SUPPORTS there seems to be this idea that those supports need to be taken away for a person to be truly successful. Having him take full responsibility may not be something he is capable of at this time. If someone feels like the bar is only going to be pushed higher and higher, especially too fast, than that may actually work in reverse and start to make them less responsive to working hard.

Hehe... Maryland, right on the PA border. Bit north of Baltimore, in a smallish, rural community. We live in (and I quote from the dealership commercials) "...the heart of downtown!" From my bedroom window I can see a corn field (ploughed under), a car dealership, and there are two banks on either side of us. Behind us is a huge field that belongs to a funeral home that's a way's away. The school is a 10 minute bus ride away.



Same here. #1Son is amazing in his test scores. He just doesn't "get" why he has to do homework.



Yes, we get resistence, but he seems to really enjoy his classes. He's struggling in geometry, but is doing 2 grade letters better since dad started tutoring him.



The endless loop thing really hit home for me. Whew. It feels like we say the same thing, over and over and over! Thank you for the positive story, btw... It helped.



That's a battle we've gone over, several times. His obsessive interest is, unfortunately, animee. You know, the Japanese animation stuff? Movies, the cards (Yu Gi Oh in particular), the little robot toys... tons of stuff like that. His bedroom looks like a 12 year old's. We've recently begun to put a *little* pressure on him to spend his money on more "age appropriate" things, but without cutting him off of the stuff he likes. Basically, we encourage him to share his interest in younger toys with our younger friends (we're blessed with several friends with kids ranging from newborn to teen), thereby side stepping whether a toy is age appropriate for HIM (I pointed this out to him because I happen to like Disney princess movies, a truly age INappropriate thing, and I get around it by watching it with my little friends and such).



Which I understand, but we worry that he'll just flunk and expect to play with game cards and transformers until he's an old man. Part of me knows that isn't true, but I still worry.



Actually, that part isn't a problem for us. He is interested in math and biology and geometry, in Drama and Spanish, all of which he's taking. He chose his own course load for this year (although dad talked him out of taking basic keyboarding because he's far beyond that in skill already). He also surprised us by choosing to take weight lifting two terms in a row, which pleased us to no end. The only course he was required to take but was iffy about was his English and his History... English is always a struggle, and so is history although he has a great teacher this year who's making it come alive. She's also worked with Aspie kids before, thank heavens, and understands that history (the study of socialization skills in the past) is really hard for someone who doesn't understand socialization skills of the *present*.



At the moment, we're doing a balance of things. In the homework department, he's been told that he's either going to have to do it or not do it on his own steam, that we can't force him to do it. We'll ask each day, both right after shcool, and later at dinner, about his homework, and whether he needs help and such, but we're not going to stand over him and force him to do it. Bad grades will still result in the loss of transformers and dvd's and such, but every effort is being made by his teachers and by us (short of forcing) to get him to hand in homework. We're using a bit of peer pressure, by getting a peer in each class to hand his homework in FOR him (meaning, each day he gets asked, "Hey, where's your homework? I'm handing mine in, I'll hand in yours too!"). It puts him on the spot, and he dislikes being "different" from the other kids in regards to school work. This *seems* to be working so far, thank heavens. But we're also walking him through things like chores in a very exact way, similar to how we talk to our 5 year old friends. Not in a humiliating way, but just very slow and exact. This also annoys him, but it seems to be helping a bit.

Th;anks!

From the perspective of someone who has it, not much. I've skimmed a couple of blogs, and read a bit here, and at another aspie site. I've also asked #1Son, to be honest... He's old enough and intelligent enough (by far LOL) to explain himself. We encourage him to share his world view with us. But we're all still learning.



He often forgets (forgot... we're giving him help with this now, see other msg) to hand in homework, and it's something that's plagued him for as long as I've k nown him. He says it isn't because he feels stupid, or it isn't perfect, but because he doesn't understand why it's necessary or such a big deal. Trying to explain to him the reasoning is pretty... difficult. Last night, basically we said, "Sure, they're asking you to do stuff you think is stupid. But unfortunately, that's the real world. There will always be people who aren't as smart as you, asking you to do things that seem stupid to you. You need to use this time to learn how to cope with that." THAT finally seemed to make an impact. He's got high marks on all his tests except geometry, and that's coming up just fine. It's just the homework and projects bringing him down.



I understand and hear what you're saying, although in the case of #1Son, I have to disagree. I wasn't able to put a full history into my previous message, and it's hard to explain all the details. We do provide him with structure, and it was suggested to him that, if he finds it too difficult to do homework at home, perhaps we need to build a study hall into each of his days, so that he can get it done at school, and it never has to be done here. It would mean delaying his graduation by a year, and he HATES that idea, but it would allow him more structure that wasn't parental. Part of the problem is that the parental nagging doesn't work. It does work short term, but long term it's just not the right thing to do... for him OR for us. As I said, though, we're learning... and thank you for answering!

We're not giving up on school... we're just giving up (sort of) on forcing him to do the homework.



Well, that's actually what the last two years have been about. Last year was especially, because we stressed to him that if he did well, we would give him a bit of autonomy, and he really wanted it. So that's not something we've thrust on him overnight... There was two years of prep involved, and an easing of our forcing (it's not quite the right word, but I don't know what else to say, because we still help him daily, we just don't sit over him and watch him write everyword) over one entire school year, before entering this year. We also gave a LOT of support and pushing for the first two weeks of the year, despite his protestations, because we felt we had to give him a good start. A lot of this has been done at his request, but at our speed (too slow for him).



He can get a study hall, but it would require him to take an extra year to finish school. We discussed it with him, and he's really vehemently against it. He wants to graduate with his friends. One of his friends happens to be developmentally handicapped, and has been in high school for 4 years already, and is still in Grade 10. #1Son likes the kid, helps him out, and does the big brother thing (despite being younger biologically), and yet doesn't want to be like him and be in school the extra time. He's taken a lot of time to actually discuss this with us, which is unusual for #1, so...

Thanks for your feedback!

I originally thought perhaps I'd written things up badly, but I don't think I wrote it up THAT badly. Yes, we all change. Sometimes at HIS request. Amazing that. Your comments would have been much more helpful without the vitriol included.



Actually, much of this was done at his behest. #1Son is very involved in his own life. He has his own plans (some of which we think are pretty kooky, but...) and he's following a path to make them happen. Doesn't matter if we think they're odd... he's our kid, he has a plan, and we support him. But we also have goals that WE feel he needs to meet, goals that we formulate with his help, the help of his guidance counsellors, and with specialists. Lately, that's also included a friend of mine who I recently found out is an Aspie.



Since I have been here (and as far as I know, since he's been having them), #1Son has been to every IEP meeting. He's been to the parent-teacher meetings as well. He talks to the specialists and counsellors, and voices his own opinions. Loudly. You've made a lot of assumptions. Why not ask questions instead?

What do you think the questions marks were for? And as for vitriol - it seems to me that you clearly stated that the school has done more than everything and you have worked very hard so who else is left in this equation that needs improvement. If you are looking for insight - then obviously you didn't like the perspective I gave you of someone who has been on the other side of being "helped" might think - which I clearly stated was due to the limited information given. Your son could even very well be a slacker - not everything about everyone is based on their label. However - words you wrote I have personally heard in disbelief from others who honestly claim they are making all kinds of attempts to help. And I also have had many issues with eating - including being hit - so I didn't see comments about he didn't eat for three days in the same theraputic light as you do. If that offends you - sorry - but I'd be lying if I told you I approved.

Im 20 with AS i would lie about homework just because i did not my parent being annoying in HS.. developing study skills is important for high education.... the thing to remember is that underless i was learning something from the homework or it interested me there was no reason to assign it... papers just for the hell of it and projects taught me very little and were a waste of time.....

Being challeged by what u are doing and seeing the logic behind doing it are your sons problems no lying i figure the lying is just his method of avoiding something he does not care about i can understand why.... "how can you say u are teaching me if i know everything for the year already"

I would agree, heartily! We talked to his teachers, and asked why certain things were assigned. He still has to do his homework, but if he can show in a few questions that he understands the concept (ie he shows us 4 of 30 questions correct), he doesn't have to finish the rest. But the subjects where he has difficulties (geometry at the moment, and English), he must do the homework, because he's actually practicing those skills. He is, like you, extremely intelligent. We also found out that one teacher was having him copy from the board, which is pretty much the only thing in his IEP that he isn't supposed to do! So that's been stopped, which means he now HAS all the questions and CAN do the homework.

However, his lying has continued, and is in other areas as well. We're working on it... He understands what lying is, just fine, but seems to find himself doing it before he thinks. Right now, when we think something he's telling us sounds kind of fishy, we ask him to stop and think about it for a minute, find the RIGHT words to use, and try again, to give him time to correct things *before* they become lies. This is helping, although it hasn't cured the problem. Lately, he's been very, very distracted and "out of it" any time he comes back from his other parent's home, and we feel that the atmosphere there is not good for him. He likes going, though, and we would never deny him the right to visit his parent! So we work with him... it's rough, but we're getting there.