Teacher trying to curb my daughter's autistic tendencies

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I don't really know how to feel about this. One one hand, I understand the teacher is trying to get my daughter to act "appropriately", which she will have to do in her life. On the other hand I feel it is inappropriate to penalize my daughter for actions which stem from her different neurological makeup, and are therefore harder to "curb" than NT children. I don't want to be one of those over coddling mothers that feel "NOT MY CHILD" with regard to discipline---I do feel my daughter needs to understand the rules. However, my daughter has been getting school demerits for talking to herself, which when I ask her about it she says she doesn't realize she's even doing it until the teacher chastises her. My daughter talks aloud to herself a lot. Also, she is being asked to stop chewing her clothing, which centers her and actually helps her concentrate. My daughter also gets in trouble for getting out of her desk during work time and I do understand the point of this but I also KNOW it is much harder for my daughter to sit still for long periods.

How do you guys feel about this? One one hand I don't think the behavior bar should be lowered for her, on the other I know how difficult these things are for her. Should I just tell my daughter that she must really try to curb these things in school and that I realize it is hard for her? My daughter is high functioning but these "quirks" are inherent in her nature I feel and I don't want her to think she is "bad". BTW, she is in third grade.

Input would be appreciated.

The getting out of her seat thing I can understand. The other stuff is way over the line as far as I'm concerned. Punishing her for chewing on her clothing!? Thats a parental decision, I would tell that teacher to back off or we would have a problem.

I could understand trying to make sure that her talking to herself is in a very quiet voice so that it doesn't dictract the other students but trying to stop it all together is kinda like forcing an autistic child who doesn't typically do so to make eye contact. Who does it benefit? and more to the point who does it hurt if a child talks to herself or lacks eye contact? We all talk to ourselves ALL THE TIME. Its just that most of us have learned to keep it inside our heads. Your DD will probably get to tthat point too but I think in the mean time, trying to prevent this behavior which isn't hurting enyone else is just going to cause more stress for her.

And the chewing, if anyone should be troubled by this it should be you not the teacher. You are the one paying for the clothes. Again, I have to ask who is hurt by your daughter chewing on her clothes?

A lot of teachers these days are recognizing the fact that students, not just ones onthe spectrum, have trouble sitting for long periods. I regularly see kids at my sons' school standing by their desks or being allowed to get up and move when they need to.

From my POV (and take that for what it is) the specific behaviors you mentioned are just things that the teacher dislikes. It sounds like she just wants to have an orderly classroom where all the kids have perfect manners and no quirky behaviors. Your daughter's behaviors you mentioned are not anything that deserve discipline in any way. I could understand if the behaviors were things like hitting, kicking or biting, talking back to the teacher, being verbally aggressive with other children, running around the class being disruptive to the other kids... The teacher's "need" for a well-mannered classroom should not outweigh your daughter's need to keep herself regulated by talking to herself, chewing or standing up. I guess that's may be how you need to explain it to the teacher, that your daughter needs to do these things in order to stay regulated. They are all things that can be done in the class without being disruptive if the teacher is willing to keep an open mind about it.

Can you settle the teacher by giving her something "appropriate" to chew on, perhaps?

Are you suggesting in a humorous way that she tells the teacher to back of by implying she should hit the teacher, or are you suggesting that she gives her daughter a chew cloth or something to bring to school?

I favor the middle of the road approach my son's teachers took for behaviors that were disruptive to the classroom: quiet signals that he knew meant "fix behavior A" but that were not punishments and that did not draw attention from the other students. Color cards, hand signals, or touches are all ways of doing this.

Your daughter should not get demerits for behavior related to her condition. That is over the line.

No one ever cared about my son's chewing, except for me, and he eventually mostly outgrew it, and learned to find more appropriate targets. Being a girl and young, your daughter might do well with a chew necklace. LOTS of kids chew, even NT ones. The teacher is over the line there.

Talk to the teacher about the desk situation and see if a compromise can be reached. But make it clear to the teacher that squashing all these things goes too far: stims are an essential part of processing for an AS child. If sitting still is the ONLY behavior skill your daughter gets asked to learn, she'll adapt. But not if it's A + B + C. The teacher needs to decide which is most important and work gently on that one.

How old is 3rd Grade? I am from Britain.

Perhaps it may be a good idea to discuss it with your daughter and try to figure out other things she can do that won't upset the teacher. Maybe you could tell her the teacher has over-controlling personality syndrome or something and that is why she is always telling her off.

The talking is a problem in class, so the child will really have to learn not to do it. Try to do some coaching with your child and see if she can think internally instead of thinking aloud. Tell her to talk to herself in her head, rather than using her lips.

The clothes issue is silly, if the child chews her clothes it shouldn't really bother the teacher.

If all fails talk to the teacher and explain, in a reasonable way, that your daughter has personality traits she finds hard to overcome, but that you are working on it. Maybe the teacher will be more understanding.

This is very true.

psychegots, I didn't mean it figuratively.

For my .02, I have specifically stated in our IEP meetings that my son is to be disciplined for behaviour issues only. Last year he got a lot of think track minutes for being forgetful, mostly not remembering to put his name on his paper. I put a stop to that and the district autism people backed me 100%. I told them you will never punish him into remembering these things. If you want to try something positive to remind him, I am fine, but not punishing him. Our problem is the district and principal are great. They know this stuff. However, many teachers fall back on what they know and that is what works with typical kids. I have to put a stop to it. We only got a dx the end of 2nd grade, so last year was a learning curve for us. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't perfect and I feel comfortable now that if I had to resort to calling an IEP meeting, the district professionals would put a stop to any teacher behaviour I couldn't get addressed..

This year has been sooooo much better. I immediately had a meeting with his teachers the second week of school. I talked over the IEP documents with them. They gave some feedback, they asked the resource aide to come and help with his weaknesses too and I have had few complaints regarding them following his main two teachers. Now if only the recess and lunch teachers could stop handing out punishments for stupid stuff, I would be pretty happy right now. He actually got loney lunch (you have to sit alone at lunchtime) for dancing in the hall. It wasn't rude or inappropriate dancing, he was on sensory overload and not marching in line on the way to the lunchroom. He danced, a kid told a teacher in the hall and they gave him loney lunch. It boggles my mind the stupidity sometimes.

Im sorry but I dont agree with agreeing at all with your daughters teacher. The problem is that your school is not giving your daughter the services she needs and so they want to "punish" her behaviors out of her? OH heck no....Id be in there spewing lava, then again thats just me.
You may want to find a chewy for your daughter that attaches to her clothing like chewease as they also come with cloth covers but this teacher would probably not allow her to use them. I know her type. My son had a teacher like this last year....she just didnt like him because he was different plain and simple. My daughter sings and talks but she also has an aide to help her, they do not punish her but instead try to redirect her or take her to her quiet place as she is obviously stressed.

I agree with this. It sounds like my experience in elementary school. Punishing an AS kid for doing what they do naturally is like punishing a left-handed kid for not being right-handed - it just doesn't work. Does the teacher know about your daughter's AS? I would schedule a meeting with the teacher and perhaps the school psychologist/councilor, and even bring your doctor along if possible to work out a plan. The teacher needs to be aware, an accept that your daughter has those behaviors. There also need to be some sort of strategies devised to work for everyone. If your daughter's behaviors don't really bother the other kids and affect their performance, then the teacher is being very picky and would be better off choosing other battles to fight…

Mama to Grace, is your daughter still in private school? If so, I can see where your conflict is coming from, as the school can decide that they aren't going to deal with the distractions or whatever.

I don't have any great advise for you. What I can say is when DS was in school and stressed, he was chewing, rocking and having meltdowns when he was overloaded. We have since brought him home to school as the trauma of the meltdowns was too much for me. What has been a surprise is he hasn't chewed anything in ages and he almost never rocks. I have come to find almost all of those behaviors were stress induced. He was regularly being restrained at school, and even at home. All of that is gone.

I'm not implying that you need to bring her home. Rather that you need to remove the stressors which may be causing the issues at school.

My son had so much anxiety about school even after school that it took probably about two weeks of no school before he really settled. If you want to keep her in the school, I would approach the teacher with the points of preventing the stressors which should help mitigate the concerning behaviors. I would remove her from the school before allowing punishments.

Btw - I did not think homeschooling was an option for us. Only as we were considering residential placements was I willing to figure out a way. I have to pay people to be home to manage this. In addition DS is not an independent learner, so he really needs 1:1 all the time. It has been pretty wonderful to watch the progress though - he was resisting learning to write an essay. He was almost looking like he did at school. I thought about it and suggested another approach to the tutor and ......its been wonderful!

We went from learning to write in the traditional way, to telling him to produce a news segment on video about a science subject. He needed to research the subject, script what he was going to say on camera and put it all together. My son loves tech stuff and had previously taught himself video editing, and use of a green screen. So he is incorporating all of this in the project, loving it and doing both his science, reading and writing.

I don't mean to hijack your thread, rather to let you know that we got to the other side of where you are, but by taking a very unexpected path.

Does the school have an OT? In the US, the school OT therapist should ideally be involved and accomodations written into her IEP -- allowing chewies, movement breaks, standing to work, etc.

Thanks for the replies. Yes, my daughter is in a private school with no IEP. Her teacher is very good, but doesn't understand AS at all. It is up to me to "guide" her. I've had a lot of conflicted feelings about her education this year. They have really done a lot to try to mediate my daughter's difficulties. I don't think this teacher is controlling or mean sprited, I just think she thinks she can change my daughter's behavior. I also believe it could be changed, but at the cost, as many of you stated, of her comfort level and anxiety. This is a fine line I don't know how far to push. In this school, you get an Excellent for conduct on your report card if you don't get any demerits. She is getting demerits for things that are related to AS. So, does having AS automatically earn her a poor conduct grade? Does a conduct grade in third grade really even matter in the grand scheme of things?

Her class is so small I don't think it's possible to have one set of rules for my daughter and one set for everyone else: hence the demerits. My daughter REALLY likes this teacher and wants to please her (as well as appear smart and "good" in her peers' opinions-this is the first year she has cared about that). So my fear is the low conduct score will turn her even further off of school when she is already teetering on hating/not wanting to go as it is.

My daughter did have a chewy necklace, but other kids AND TEACHERS (in our old public school) chided her for it so she absolutely refuses any chewy. We do mock tests at home and I can tell you through my informal trials my daughter scores better when chewing then when she does not. Strange, but true. Therefore, I don't think they should discourage her from chewing. It helps her brain function better. But when I mention that to the teacher I think I end up sounding like a lunatic.

I think I am going to talk to the teacher a bit. I need to find some information sources that describe my daughter's difficulty in curbing these behaviors and why these "motor/sensory" behaviors are actually helpful for her. She doesn't see an OT anymore, I dropped the private OT visits about 6 months ago.

Tony Attwood may be a good place to start for information from a well-respected professional about the relationship between sensory needs, regulating behavior and mitigation of anxiety.

I actually don't think that class size should dictate whether or not there is a different set of rules for your DD than there is for the other kids. NEED should be what dictates the rules. No matter what size the class, you get kids who ask why so and so gets to do something different. For ex. DS has a sit disk he uses whenever his class is doing anything at the rug, which is quite often in this K class. Some of the kids wanted to know why he got to use the sit disk. The teacher explained that it was just something he needed in order to be able to listen well and keep his hands to himself at rug time that the other kids didn't need. DS was OK with this and the other kids were too. I think there is a lot of trepidation (at least there was on my part) about how having different rules for different kids is going to be perceived by the students and how they are going to react to such a situation. So far, to my surpirse, my experience has been that kids are actually OK with these differences when a reasonable explanation is given by the teacher. Perhaps the teacher in your case is worried about this? Maybe she thinks if she "bends the rules" for your DD then she won't be able to enforce the same rules with the other kids? If this is at the heart of why she doesn't want to have a different standard of conduct for your DD then maybe you can provide her examples of how different standards are used all the time for special needs kids in other schools. Perhaps if she came to understand that it is really pretty common to afford certain kids some latitude with behaviors that aren't affecting anyone else, she would have less resistance to the idea.

I also think that your observation that she does better on tests when she is allowed to chew is really valid. You shouldn't feel like you are a lunatic for saying this. People have found this to be true for ASD kids everywhere that if you allow them to chew or stand up or squeeze a hand fidget or do any number of other sensory activities, they can focus better and do better academically. Good luck, I do hope you find some resolution. You have talked before about your daughter's intense anxiety and I really hope that her teacher can come to understand that managing her anxiety level is much more important than "Excellent conduct".

I agree that the teacher just doesn't get it and thinks that punishment is the answer. My younger son chews on clothing when stressed, so punishing him would tend to make the problems worse. Talking to herself without even being aware that she is doing so--how can this be bad behavior?

It sounds like she needs more help than she is getting at the school, not intentionally acting up. However, I understand that a third grade regular ed teacher at a private school may not be able to handle the situation effectively. A tough situation.