'Accident' at School . . . What to Do, Doubting our Choices

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If you don't know, we live in Asia, so have our kids going to a local pre-school, with which I have basically a 4-year-olds ability level to communicate with (I am not fluent in the local language by any means).

So, my 4 1/2 year old came home from school today in his extra change of clothes. Typically, he won't tell me much when I ask him about school. But when I asked him about his pants, he told me he pooped his pants at school. He has been fully potty trained since 3, but has recently started suddenly wetting the bed again--not sure why but I suspect school trouble (seems to be getting in trouble lately a lot). Anyway ,the story I finally got out of him was that he was in time out, he had to poop, he told the teacher, she wouldn't let him out, and so he couldn't hold it in any longer and soiled his pants.
I am not at all frustrated with him. This is such a rarity for him. But I am concerned about his situation at school more now. He said he doesn't know why he was in time out (his 2nd language level is pretty good btw). Typically, he can't seem to remember most of what his school day involves on a daily basis.

And most of all--The note I got from the teacher--from what I could tell--says he 'must have soiled his pants at home' and so she changed him. Is she trying to cover up the situation? Honestly, I don't think my son made up being in time out. He hates admitting that he's in time out.

I am really wondering if this second language thing is going to work for us. I can't hire a full-time translator for what seems to be every day little issues that pop up. My son actually says he loves his school and that he loves being in 'another language' for school time. I don't want to rob him of that amazing opportunity. Seems languages is one of his 'things' he does well. Thing is, I also don't want to make the mistake of missing out on some very important information these first few crucial years! Thinking about trying to find a local school that has some teachers who speak English but not an 'English program'. That's going to take some work.

We don't have a lot of options, but I am re-thinking this a lot. Am I making too much of a big deal out of it? Is this just typical of early school life and the dilemmas of communicating with teacher vs. kid stories in general?

Was your son upset about the situation? I think I would probably gauge my next steps on what needed to be done to resolve the situation from my son's POV. If he was upset about it, I would probably find someone who could translate for me and go in and talk to the teacher. It really isn't acceptable for the teacher to blame it on you for sending him to school in soiled pants. But you probably need to judge whether or not it is worth calling her on it. I can imagine having a conversation with someone like that when you have to do it through an interpreter would be pretty difficult.

Could you possibly hire a high school student or a middle school student who speaks English to help you out? Kids that age are always looking for extra cash, and you don't have to pay them very much like you would someone who does that for a living. Maybe a retired person who is looking for something to do who you could also help out by doing some cleaning or running errands for? Maybe another parent that you could babysit for sometimes?

Just a few ideas off the top of my head. Hope you get it worked out.

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There is a reason all kids this age keep a change of clothes at school: accidents happen. Even in kids who have been fully potty trained for years. Sometimes it is warning sign, and sometimes it is just something that happened.

Both my kids had odd periods of regression on this, and there never was a reason found. It just was.

File it away for now, and re-evaluate if it becomes part of a pattern.

Meanwhile do get the story on the time out. Your son will need the situational autopsy if he is going to have any chance at avoiding time outs in the future. Sometimes figuring out what really happened requires many questions to both teacher and child. It shouldn't be a blame process, just a learning one.

Thanks, all. Well, thinking on it overnight and having some solid comments from you helps. I have actually hired a couple times one of our University's English translation students to help with a letter/notes. Typically the students are pretty busy, but I could probably ask her for a little more time. She has been awesome. I'm probably not very good at asking for help, I do know that.

My son didn't appear to be too upset about it, so I didn't make a big deal over it with him. But, yes, he does seem to have trouble not knowing why he gets time outs and that we've got to clear up so he can avoid them and not get frustrated. This is the first I have felt he is getting a little frustrated at school.

I've asked the teacher for a letter outlining what she things his main problems are, and I'm going to have my student helper translate it. All I have gotten are little tidbits each day on some 'misbehavior'. So, I've asked her for a more thorough evalaution/feedback.

Hey there. I don't know where in Asia you are but we are in Japan and as far as I am concerned, the school system here stinks. Unless we start looking at international schools (which are quite expensive) the chances of us finding any school with English-speaking teachers is pretty much zero.

For all I can tell that teacher was trying to blame the parents for sending your son to school with pooped pants. Too much institutionalized bullying out here, even from teachers.

We are completely sick of fighthing with the schools here and trying to get non-existant services from the city.

We will be moving back to the US early next year as I just see no value in staying out here any longer.

I hear you, Wreck-Gar! We are in South Korea, but I think I am safe to say the mentality in general is very similar to Japan when it comes to handicaps/disorders. Getting better, but still in much need of change. (Yes, I think the teacher was trying to 'save her own face' and remove the blame from herself. Very important here.)
And the school system here probably has similar structure to where you are. There are some really good private pre-schools that are 'forward thinking' in their methods/flexibility. However, those are hard to find. They are often schools for 'gifted' children.

I know the US in general is better, but I've also heard from plenty of people who are struggling with enormous 'red tape' in the US school system. We may eventually have to decide to move back for my DS situation if things don't work out here, but I think we'll have to be careful about where we move to--i.e. check feedback on the city/state schools first?
So complicated.

I do have friends here who are fluent in the language, so I may need to eventually swallow my independence and beg for help. Which may or may not help any. I can't fix the system, but I suppose I'm still hoping to find a hidden gold nugget in it somewhere.

Just don't want to lose the great living situation here which also benefits our kids--short work hours, good pay, and nearly free healthcare.

Good luck with your move back! Will look forward to hearing how things go.

Grrrrr!! ! Cultural train wreck. Well, I'm being dramatic. But, the letter I asked my son's teacher to write to me about the issues he is having at school . . . apparently, the director wouldn't let her write it. Nearly every other day the teacher reports to me some 'issue' my DS is having with friends, behavior, etc. So, I asked the teacher to give me a summary of what issues he is experiencing so I can take it to his evaluation. (Note: used a translator for this request.)

A letter (not from his teacher) but instead from the owner/director of the school came stating that my son is fine, he has no problems or issues, he gets along well with his friends, and he can draw/write/color just fine. She thinks his communication and language ability is fine. Also, that she thinks he just needs more informal play time. Aka, it sounds like they don't want to move him up to Kindergarten when his pre-school class graduates in two months. (When he will be 5). So, if he is doing fine, why isn't he ready for kindergarten like the rest of his class? He complains that he 'plays' too much (that's all they really do) and that he wants to study more/learn more. He says he is bored.

I think she is worried about losing her token English-speaking foreigner's kid if she says something negative to us about him officially on paper, even though we asked for it.
I think we are going to be actively researching some other schools. Sigh.

Yeah the US system has its problems but at least services exist. Pretty much zippo here. And if we need to send him to special ed (he is 3 now) it's a totally separate system. No integrated classrooms or anything like that. So if he starts that path he's pretty much looking forward to a future of cleaning toilets.

The main issue we have is that my son has a huge language delay and there is literally no one who can help in English. If he speaks English at his daycare I don't think the teachers understand him, or if they do, they don't know how to respond.

My wife is from here so she is the one taking care of everything for our son and every time she has to deal with the city she ends up steaming.

I don't really get any special perks out here and we are living in a one bedroom apartment...probably similar to most people in Korea. Even the houses here are not much bigger. My son crashes on the couch most nights!

We started seriously thinking of going back around the time of the Earthquake and following disasters...we never really intended to settle here permanently or raise kids here anyway...

I would put a recording device in his backpack to find out what goes on there because I really don't trust a teacher who would lie like that.

Does he remember what goes on elsewhere?

Been busy with the holidays, but that's a good question, Chronos. I've thought of asking to sit in on a day of classes to observe him, but I have a feeling that is not going to go over well, as the teacher will probably be afraid that I am 'evaluating' her performance (cultural difference). I don't think anything terrible is going on, but definitely she is most likely not understanding him and not taking an extra effort to figure out what is going on with him.

Typically, my son's typical answer about school when I ask him what he did is, "I had so much fun I don't remember." It is his stock, memorized answer. It rarely changes. As far as with other memory things . . . yeah, his short term memory is not so good when it comes to events. Is this typical for kids on the spectrum? He is able to remember all kinds of facts about his interests--even when it comes to just random facts. For example, he memorized all the names of 8-10 yoga poses that he saw in a magazine in just one minute. I didn't ask him to, he just was interested in it. However, when it comes to recalling relational events, even in our home, he doesn't do so well.

It would be great if you could record what happens in class. But, in most schools, the backpack is placed in a child's cubby, and wouldn't likely pick much up.

If your instinct is telling you your child isn't being treated well or with respect then listen to it. Sometimes teacher and child personalities clash and sometimes teachers are just not cut out to be teachers or are burned out.

My son went to an awesome preschool that was set up for children like him with his special needs. It was a wonderful experience for us, 5 kids in the class with a special ed teacher and a child psychologist there always. The special ed teacher was wonderful for us, my son loved her and she loved him and we were very happy.

But it being such a small class us mom's got to know each other and one of the other mom's had a very different experience. Her son had different issues, mainly Cerebral Palsy, so his was more physical where my son and the rest were autism issues. The teacher wasn't as kind to that mom and child. My son even asked me a few times why (teacher) wasn't so nice to him (other boy).

So as wonderful as she was to my son, she wasn't with one other boy. It happens, teachers are human and not perfect as the rest of us. If you feel you son is being singled out and not treated the way he should be treated then I would move on to another school.

The covering up is a red flag. Blaming you for the soiled pants and then the letter roadblock, all red flags to me that he is not with the right teacher. And to me at this tender age it's more important then ever to have your child around those who are invested with his best interests, when he's older and can think it through better for himself and ask for help that's easier to let things work itself out, but when they are so young we have to listen to our intuition.

Do you know any of the other mom's that have kids in the class to see if they've had problems as well? But like I said, it could be just a clash with your child and this one teacher, so if no one else has problems it still doesn't mean that it's not a problem for your child.

Another thing with Aspie children, if he opened up to you and you listen, he will learn that it's safe to open up again, if he feels that you didn't listen it could be even harder for him to open up again. so whatever you decide I would acknowledge with him how proud you are of him for telling you what happened and make sure he know's that you are interested in helping him with this as best as you can. Make sure he know's you hear him and you care about his needs above anything else.

seekingtruth, that's a good point about really praising him about opening up and that helping him open up more and again. I did make sure I told him it was 'ok' that it happened though I'm not sure how much I praised him for actually telling me.

Good news is, we are on vacation now for a month and a half, so he is not at school and I have more time to think about this all! I definitely think his teacher has probably felt 'overwhelmed' by having a child in her classroom his is learning the language AND having some social issues. She's never had that experience before, and though she may perhaps 'like' him I think she feels burdened. The other good news, is that they will be moving up my son with his class to the next kindergarten level when we come back from vacation . . . so, new teacher, more academics (what he wants), but the same friends. So, I may research some other schools in our area but it's reassuring to know this may be a positive change for him. (The school year changes in February here).