Not sure if daughter has it or not (warning long post)

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I'm self diagnosed but currently going through the motions of getting a diagnosis (I have an appointment in January) and I've been looking at my past and present which has then made me look at my parents and my daughter. I'm 99% sure my dad has AS but I'm not sure about my daughter. I'm starting to notice things about her behaviour that I hadn't really thought about before and wondering if it's NT behaviour or AS behaviour.

She has sensory issues but only midly like myself, certain fabrics feel wrong and she can't wear them, she doesn't like anything too tight around her neck or feet (like me). She can't stand certain noises like the hand dryers in public toilets but like me she is learning to cope and just get on with it, sometimes she will cover her ears and get quite agitated by it other times she can use them.

Then there are situations when I wonder if this is what's described as a meltdown with her. For example on Friday we wrote cards out to her schoolfriends and she sat and told me about a boy she really really loves and is going to marry. I with my stupidity said "oh well you can't love him that much he's not on your list to send a card to" (and then jokingly laughed) I then suggested she send him one. So she wrote him a card and also a little note in it saying she loved him and they will get married when they grow up (they are both 6) and we discussed in great detail what the wedding would be like how many kids they'd have etc etc. Yesterday she came home with 2 cards, one she showed me was from one of the older boys at school who's sister she used to be friends with at playgroup, the other she wouldn't show me.

She ran off and hid in her bedroom, she called her dad in and told him who the card was from etc. I went in after a few minutes and asked who her card was from, did she have a nice day at school etc etc. She said she didn't want to tell me, long story short she got more and more agitated, saying she was scared that I would be upset by who it was from. No idea where she would get that idea as I don't mind who she plays with etc (and I told her this several times). She then decided she would tell 'Teddy' who would then tell me...I then had to explain that teddy isn't real, can't really speak so how could he tell me so would she please just tell me. Lots of huffing and tutting and 'I'm scared' and weird grouchy noises, I give up walk off, 10 seconds later she calls me in, 'Teddy' is holding the card, I open it and it's from the boy she really loves. Nothing odd about it just "To *daughter's name* love from *boy's name*, so I said it was nice he sent her a card and I put it up on her shelf and she seemed fine, we chatted about it for a bit and I said she didn't need to be scared to tell me she had a card from him, I already knew she liked him because she told me (I reminded her of Friday's card writing).

She seemed fine, I went to make a phone call to re-arrange one of her hospital appointments, the whole time I was on the phone I could hear her crying and wailing. My husband tried to calm her down but she was "off on one" as we usually term it, nothing would calm her down and eventually she stopped crying enough to speak. Still not sure what it was over but all she could manage to say as a way of explanation was "card" "boy's name" "mummy". As fast as it started it stopped and we were playing with her dolls and discussing our upcoming trip to see my parents.

That is not a one off, she often gets herself so unbelievably upset about the strangest things, later on yesterday evening she whacked her hand on the computer desk as she was running past. My husband thought she blamed him (she often blames other people for her being hurt) he comforted her but said it was wrong to blame him when he didn't do it...and cue an all out crying/wailing fit as she tried to explain she dind't say that. Even after my husband apologised for mishearing her she continued to cry and kept repeating that she didn't say it was him.

Sometimes she will randomly decide she doesn't like someone and will say she is scared of them, doesn't want to be around them etc, which can be a bit of a pain if it's her granny she's scared of and we need to go somewhere with her. Or like me when she was 3 and would not be near me for about 4 months, would lash out at me and constantly want to be carried by her dad.

I think yesterday must have been a particularly bad day for her because another (is it or isn't it) Aspie trait was when her friend opened the card she had written to her. Her friend raced over saying thank you, I love it and then tried to hug my daughter, who was pushing her away. Her friend persisted in trying to hug her and my daughter was smiling awkwardly and keeping her at arms length before she finally gave up. I said you don't like hugs do you, my daughter insisted she did, I asked why she wouldn't let her friend hug her and again she insisted that she did let her. I then told her it was okay that I didn't really like hugs either only from her and her dad. We then had a big discussion on who we thought it was okay to hug and who we didn't want hugs from (which was pretty much everyone lol).

I've been looking at old videos of her playing when she was little and comparing them with videos I've seen on youtube of other Aspie kids playing, things like focusing on a specific part of a toy. She always did this, if it had buttons that made noise she would repeatadly press a certain button. she went through phases with noises herself, she would make a specific noise and would do it over and over throughout the day, some would last weeks others months. She has repetative phases, like when she was 3 she kept rubbing her hand across her cheek so much that she ended up with terrible sores, then she moved on to chewing her sleeve. At the moment her repetative 'thing' is rubbing her teddies against her nose / sniffing them.

It's difficult knowing what's normal and what's not because to me it's normal because this is how it's always been. Things have to be certain ways or she can get upset, to me that's normal because that's our routine and with me probably being an Aspie too I like routine and I see her behaviour (most of the time) as perfectly understandable and / or normal.

She doesn't seem to be hindered at all by these little things and is doing well in school apart from her maths. We've only had a few incidents, the most recent when she was hysterical because she thought we would not be picking her up from school(the headteacher had to call us up to speak to her and reassure her, even then she wouldn't stop crying). That all started because of the texture and taste of the beef she was forced to eat at lunch, there have been a few other little things at school but nothing so bad they couldn't resolve it themselves. So I'm not sure whether to seek any kind of diagnosis for her at the moment as she seems perfectly fine she just has quirks, but even so I'm not sure if she has it, it's so difficult to know either way because she's my first, I don't have any friends with kids (or friends at all) to compare with and in most cases she seems NT to me...but then I'm not NT and neither is my husband so it's difficult.

So I was wondering what other people thought, do you think she may have it? should I just wait and see how she goes or seek a diagnosis asap?

You should seek a diagnosis as soon as possible. There's no shame in being on the spectrum.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't see any shame in it, I think I'm just worried that I'm seeing what's not there if that makes sense? My husband thinks I'm reading too much into her behaviour and because AS is apparently my 'latest obsession' that I want her to be on the spectrum. That's not it at all though, I didn't think about her behaviour beforehand because I didn't think anything of mine, I just had quirks, I was weird, I can't make friends for whatever reason etc etc. Wheras now it's all starting to make sense, the bizarre stuff I do / think and my past. Only now that I'm aware of things am I wondering whether it's NT or not, like her avoidance of affection, she doesn't like being hugged/ kissed by anyone other then her dad. She reluctantly hugs me but anyone else she will push away / dodge to avoid being hugged. Up until now I just shrugged it off as oh that's just her, she just doesn't like it, she just doesn't like that noise, she doesn't like fleece fabrics like me. I didn't know I was different until I heard about Asperger's and researched it and so I didn't know she was different.

I think I'm mainly after opinions on whether others think she could be too, I think she is on the spectrum but my husband is making me doubt myself. Also what the pros / cons will be for her as even though it's wrong for them to when people find out your not 'normal' there is an instant stigma attached to it that I don't want her to have to suffer unless her AS raises problems for her.

Based on what I've read, I would seek out a diagnosis. She seems to already be having some trouble calming herself down. The best part of getting my oldest DD diagnosed is all the help with self-regulation that she's getting. Having a strategy to deal with meltdowns and the knowledge that wasn't deliberate bad behavior has been very helpful at home and school.

I know that feeling of being unsure, as most of our family is Aspie. I have some concerns about my younger daughter and can't figure out whether I'm looking too hard at her because of the rest of us. I figure since she's happy most of the time I will not seek outside help for now. My oldest daughter was never happy!

I recommend keeping a daily log of behavior to help organize your thoughts and to show to doctors if necessary. (I keep a "public" and "private" one, the latter containing more personal thoughts or rants.)

Thank you for your input fanto, you said "I figure since she's happy most of the time I will not seek outside help for now" and that's kind of how I feel about my daughter, I just don't know what to do, she is perfectly happy and like I said we've had a handful of incidents at school but other then that she's fine, at home it doesn't matter.

When she has her little moments (I don't know if they are meltdowns or not) she does calm down eventually, we had one last night. She had been watching the film space buddies in bed as a treat because she's off school. Afterwards we tucked her in said goodnight and about 20 minutes later we could hear her crying so we went in to see what the problem was and she was hysterically crying. The reason...the puppies in the film were so cute and she really really wanted one and she knows she can't have one because talking dogs are not real and it was making her sad and upset to the point she was crying / wailing. We talked through it and I always know how to stop her I divert her attention away from whatever is upsetting her, last night I did it by asking her what she was buying the following day when she went shopping with her dad (she has some money saved up) she was still a bit teary but started talking about things she would like to get, then we talked about what all her presents may be, then about what secret presents we'd got for her dad's birthday and after 10 minutes of this chatting about other stuff she she seemed to calm down, we tucked her in again and she was asleep within 10 minutes, I think she was overtired, she's always prone to these things when she's tired.

I tried your idea of keeping a daily log of behaviour but I don't know what's odd behaviour and what isn't, for example she had received lots of christmas cards from friends on Thursday which she put on a table. When her granny came to visit she made granny play a game with the cards, first it was hide the teddy behind the card and she had to guess which one the teddy was behind. Then the cards were a maze, her favourite teddy joined in with his squeaks pointing to where granny had to move the smaller teddy in the maze. She kept rubbing her teddy against her nose (a habit she has) and both games had very strict rules and by the time she'd explained how to play it and why granny was doing it wrong because you can't move that way or pick that card etc etc she was moving on to something else. This is kind of how the conversation went;

Daughter; Right granny I'm going to hide the teddy in one of these cards and you have to guess where he is
Granny: Okay (daughter hides it, granny guesses first time)
Daughter: No granny you can't just pick the right one first time, you have to check under all of them before picking the right one or it's cheating (so they start again granny does as she asks and finds the teddy under the last one)
Granny: Yay I found him
Daughter: No that's not right, you had to start with this card and then say "oh no he's not under there" you didn't say that so you have to start again (so granny starts again and lifts each card in turn saying the phrase, gets to the third card)
Daughter: No wait, I know lets make it a maze and you have to get to the middle before the time runs out (she re-arranges the cards into a maze)
Granny: So all I have to do is get to the middle? (daughter nods) where's the middle?
Daughter: (Rolls eyes) it's there granny (points) ready...go (Granny takes about 10 seconds to get to the middle)
Daughter: No that was too fast, you have to go the wrong way on some of it and then....I know teddy's going to help you
Teddy: Squeak Squeak
Daughter: So you have to do what he said
Granny: which is what? (daughter then explaines the new rules, granny starts the maze again with Teddy helping)
Daughter: Wait I know lets have an igloo slide that you have to go down at the end to win
Granny: Right okay (starts the maze again)
Daughter: (notices a programme on TV called hotel trubble) Ooooh granny lets play hotel trouble, right who are you going to be? Teddy can be Dolly, Daddy can be the bellboy, who do you want to be granny?
Granny: I don't know what characters are there?
Daughter: You can be Sally, she works behind the desk...

And it just went on and on, that whole section of conversation and games happened in the space of 10 minutes, I wasn't sure whether to write it down because to us that's normal, that's how she plays, complicated rules, using things for a purpose other then what they are designed for etc but I don't know whether it's normal or odd behaviour.

How old is she?

She's 6 and a half.

Wailing over puppies is TOTALLY something I'd have done at that age!

Yup. Go for a diagnosis. It may not be, but sure sounds like it.

Thank you both for your imput, I solved the puppies problem, she got over it quickly but when looking for the one buddies film she doesn't have I managed to find a box set with all 5 puppies as plush teddies, it's on it's way to us, can't wait to see her face when she gets it.

Sylvia - I'm going to go for a diagnosis, I'm going for one myself and I'm guessing it may make it easier getting her one if I do because her AS symptoms are not as obvious in public, she's a very extroverted little girl and has so many friends I can't keep up with the names. It's the stuff she does in private that's raising flags for me, like noted above. It's little things where I'm not sure if it's something every kid does or if it's a little AS trait. For example yesterday she suddenly said "they're talking to me aren't they?!" about a kids programme on TV, I explained to her that that wasn' tpossible it just seems like it, but she insisted they were because they were looking directly at her, again I explained they were looking at the camera.

She seems to know now when she is having her meltdowns, on Monday evening she was supposed to be going to sleep but she came in and gave us her yo yo. When we asked her why she said because she won't be able to sleep with it in her room, it was distracting her and upsetting her...in her words "it's making me angry and upset so can you keep hold of it so I can go to sleep". She'd been playing with it and because she couldn't use it properly she'd been getting extremely frustrated, which led to her getting angry and hitting the yo yo against the floor. Or little things like on Saturday she couldn't get to sleep because the light on her sky box was green "it's supposed to be red", her dad had left it turned on by accident and she couldn't sleep because the light was green instead of red. To me that's perfectly understandable as little things like that bother me but is it NT?

Hi! This is my very first post on this forum, though I've been reading it for a few weeks now. I've had some issues with my son and am just now realizing that he is probably an Aspie. Through all of my research and doctor appts it wasn't obvious to them and although I am NT I didn't know what symptoms to tell the docs because they all are just how he has always been and I had no knowledge of autism or AS.

Anyhow, I wanted to respond to this post because I wanted to tell you from my perspective as an NT and what I've learned, the issues your daughter has with certain things are not NT...in my opinion. Also, like your daughter my son also seems to have friends and not have many social issues, however they are there if you look closer. In many cases its the reactions of NTs that will teach Aspies to be closed off and while things are fine now, kids change and her social issues could be more apparent later. My son seems to hide his 'symptoms' around others, but when at home releases all he has held in usually in the form of a tantrums that look like they are about irrational things or unimportant things. Which could be what your daughter is doing sometimes. So I am glad you are pursuing a diagnosis because that will only help you understand and assist her when needed. I think your instincts are right on target and I think its awesome you will be able to be relate to each other.

Hi! This is my very first post on this forum, though I've been reading it for a few weeks now. I've had some issues with my son and am just now realizing that he is probably an Aspie. Through all of my research and doctor appts it wasn't obvious to them and although I am NT I didn't know what symptoms to tell the docs because they all are just how he has always been and I had no knowledge of autism or AS.

Anyhow, I wanted to respond to this post because I wanted to tell you from my perspective as an NT and what I've learned, the issues your daughter has with certain things are not NT...in my opinion. Also, like your daughter my son also seems to have friends and not have many social issues, however they are there if you look closer. In many cases its the reactions of NTs that will teach Aspies to be closed off and while things are fine now, kids change and her social issues could be more apparent later. My son seems to hide his 'symptoms' around others, but when at home releases all he has held in usually in the form of a tantrums that look like they are about irrational things or unimportant things. Which could be what your daughter is doing sometimes. So I am glad you are pursuing a diagnosis because that will only help you understand and assist her when needed. I think your instincts are right on target and I think its awesome you will be able to be relate to each other.

Thank you so much for your input Blakesmom, a major problem for me is I have no comparison, I don't have any friends and it's not something I can talk to my daughter's friends mother's about. The rare time I talk to one of the other mum's at her school it's usually quite one sided and I can't exactly say "oh hey does you kid do this?"

The 3 of us watched a programme on TV about a kid with asperger's funnily enough in the same county as us and some of the things the mum said about her son reminded me of my daughter, When she talked about her son ordering the other kids to do this, do that "this is how we will play the game" sort of behaviour is just how she can be, but it's not a problem at the moment because the other kids do as she says or if they refuse she will reluctantly go along with what they want to do (and at the end of the school day she informs me they are no longer her friend but all is forgiven the next day).

I don't know if things are getting worst or if I'm just noticing more / looking at things differently now. For example yesterday she was eating some crisps, a brand called McCoys, I was washing the dishes when she suddenly shouts "mummy I can't eat these" so I asked why and she came to show me that the packet said on the back "man crisp" she said she wasn't a man so couldn't eat them and she was a little sad. I explained to her that it was a silly marketing ploy, she didn't understand so I just told her it was fine to eat them, the crisp makers were just being silly. Normally I wouldn't think anything of that because that's just her, that's how she's always been. Doing strange things like keeping the wrappers off food in her underwear draw because she wants to collect them, at the time it was odd but I just shrugged it off and knew it was a phase, but thinking back, that's not really normal is it. Or like right now she's playing on the xbox with her dad, they are playing a fighting game (she's amazing at it), initially she starts playing just sitting pushing the buttons and slowly she gets more and more animated until she's bashing the buttons, screeching insults (take that, yeah got you, etc) and jumping around in circles.

It's just the little things that I wish I could just ask an expert quickly is that NT or not? I'd get things rolling tomorrow but she has physical problems that need dealing with now and once we've been through all that I'm going to take her to our GP and get things in motion for her. Hopefully by that point I'll be on the way to a diagnosis too.

I think its awesome you will be able to be relate to each other.

Since ASD's tend to run in families, odds are good that your daughter has at least some AS genes, with the real question being if she has enough of them to "be" AS, or to have AS create difficulties in her life.

You do mention some things that I believe could cause her difficulties and, thus, an evaluation is probably a good idea.

Just remember that evaluations are subjective, and you don't have to buy what they say hook, line and sinker, either.

Have you talked to her teachers about this at all? Some teachers have now seen quite a few ASD's, and have pretty good instincts on it. They could also tell you if they have noticed any pragmatic language issues, or issues with transitions - both of those are areas where ASD's commonly surface at school.

NT mom of 9 year old Aspie and 7 year old NT boys here...

To me the "man crisp" story sounds like a typical example of the way an Aspie can sometimes take things very literally. But I think worrying about each specific behavior/trait of a child and classifying it as NT vs. AS is not necessarily helpful. My NT son has a serious demeanor, is a choosy eater, can spend hours building Legos and is furious at interruptions to this activity, takes a lot of time to make friends, and is the sort to watch and wait for days/weeks before coming out of his shell in a new situation. My AS son is very talkative, enjoys unusual/exotic foods more than is usual at his age, approaches strangers readily, and is cheerful/silly in demeanor. These are not complete pictures of either boy, naturally, I selected the traits to make the point. Nonetheless, it is why I agree with the people suggesting you seek a diagnosis. It's complicated!

If your daughter has AS, the testing will turn up a list of her particular weaknesses and strengths so you can focus help where she will most need it to cope with the increasing demands school will make both socially and organizationally before she starts to have bigger problems.