From kid to parent

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First, I want to state that I am not a parent, I doubt I will ever get lucky enough to have a kid, but I HAVE a parent, and I have been someone’s kid and I can say from my side, things usually look pretty damn hectic, if not unreasonably illogical. I am posting here because I really want some NT input into my current dilemma and because my mother is completely useless in this process. Maybe I can borrow a parent for a few mins? =) consider this a short-term adoption!
I have horrible social issues. I can’t talk to my mother about it. I tried once explaining to her the whole autism spectrum bit, aspergers. . . all of that. I talked to her in the clearest terms I could. Just like everyone else I know, she jumped in the “there is nothing different about you, you are just very self-centered/sensitive/insensitive” bandwagon.
I want some honest socializing advice, you have been on the other end, maybe you can help me?
I have awkward OCD habits. Nothing specific, but I always have to finish what I start, even if I started it wrong. Like if I start coloring a circle blue and I was told to use green, when I notice I HAVE to finsh it blue because I started it. Does not occur to me to get a new work sheet, because this one is not finished. Silly example but, does it make sense?
I do a lot of one-sided conversation, even when I try not to. And it makes me sad, very sad, when people cut me off because I am talking to much and not letting them talk or when I cut them off when they get mad because I did not get the clue that they were not done talking. To me done talking means words stopped coming from your mouth.
I used to have a PDD-NOS diagnosis, and then another doctor said I had to be exaggerating and maybe I had mild depression, there goes my diagnosis, and my willingness to go to a doctor and try to get one. Ergo, I cannot possibly be autistic because I am not sitting in a corner spinning plates (anymore).
When I am myself my only two friends complain that I seem distant, like I am not in my own body. I seem more real when I pretend I understand and agree a lot.
However this does not work long-term. I am not very independent. I am terrified of losing my two friends because then id be stuck living with my mom, who does not understand, thinks I should always do what she says (At age twenty eight) and it is driving me crazy.
I live my life at almost thirty bordering on 10, if you know what I mean?
I really do not even know where to begin to ask for help. My loca mental health clinic is on a “recovery” trip and I doubt I will get anywhere there, tried it. I got no insurance, I live in the south, and I am very confused most of the day about half of everything that goes on. Can’t connect in any real level with what people think its important. I am very lonely.

I'm sorry I can't be helpful to you, but this post is very helpful to me. You help me see the world from my son's perspective. Thank you.

I am glad something good came out of it! I can give you one word of advice be patient love him and know that half the time he hurt your feelings he really really didn't mean it. I am actually surprised I saw a response . . . . i tend to expect the worse usually. I am living in a lot of misery lately. I want to get my life together and it feels like I am completely incapable of doing so.

It is not even as much as remembering to do small things like wearing clean clothes and closing the door behind me that are a problem as much as putting it in my mind that these things ARE important, that i SHOULD pay attention to them. The details are everywhere and I feel they are gonna ruin my life.

First, I think you're brave to come here to ask for this kind of help and share so much personal information. A lot of what you describe sounds so much like some of the behavior of my son, when he was younger. He has managed to rid himself of some of the OCD-like behaviors, and I'm not sure how - he is on a small dose of Prozac (for anxiety, not OCD), which might have had some effect. When he was very little, way before we suspected anything other than a "quirky" kid, my boy would be unable to leave the house without "finishing" what he was doing. We got very used to asking him what he needed to do before he could leave. It usually didn't have to be to really "finish" what he was doing, as long as he was warned, and was able to do something that gave him a sense of closure. Usually it took him only a few seconds. "Outsiders" thought we were overindulgent. We knew that the few seconds (at most two minutes) that we gave him to "complete" what he was doing saved us, and him, not only lots of time but even more aggravation. And who wants to be expected to drop everything at a moment's notice? Everyone needs to "wrap things up" before moving on. So that's what we did, and ignored everyone else - it worked for us, and our family.

When he got to school, in the lower grades, teachers thought they understood "difficulty with transitions," but his was a bit more intense. He really needed to finish every detail on a picture before it was done. The teacher didn't want the detail, she wanted the picture done. It was sometimes difficult (depending on the teacher). As he's grown up, some of these issues have lessened, but not all.

You say you live in the South. Have you checked to see if there's a GRASP group in your area? They have peer support groups for individuals on the spectrum, and many adults find community, support and advice through their programs. Also, if you like to read, a lot of people have found John Elder Robison's books, Look Me In The Eye and Be Different really helpful, because woven into the stories is advice on how to get along in this NT world, without selling yourself out (as an ASD individual). The books are also wonderful books, as John Elder Robison is a fabulous writer - very engaging. The second one, Be Different, is actually intended to be something of a helpful manual for individuals on the spectrum, and those who love them.

By the way, when you refer to the "small things," the small things are, indeed, often the important things. If you think of when someone truly annoys you, it is probably small things that get to you, too. It's not so much that you have to remember all of them (no one does), but that you have to be willing to believe that the things that are important to other people, really are important to them, even if they aren't important to you.

Thanks for the post I appreciate it. I think what is most aggravating about everything is the lack of having time to think things through thoroughly. I am learning how to weigh my options but sometimes it takes me forever to do so. My roommates are usually understanding, but I am bound to get on their nerves. It came to a point that we had arguments at least once a day. My mom having moved in with us has made things a lot worse, because her expectations of my behavior towards her and in general are way different than how things are really. I think the worst part is feeling immature, like I haven't hit high school yet and I am 28 years old. I do not really want to be so self-absorbed that I hurt people's feelings and I do feel weird about the idea of seeing a group, strangers in person really really make me nervous.

I love my friends and I want to be as good a friend to me as they have been to me and sometimes I feel like their relationship with me is one-sided and I do not give enough to them in return. I used to get mad at them for expecting me to understand that I did something thoughtless or that was rude to them, like cutting them off or talking senselessly. Even worse when I got told not to apologize if I did not mean it. I even think causing arguments became another one of my patterns. Almost like I was not comfortable until they got mad at me, because then for sure I KNOW what they are feeling and what their tone was like. Like I can only recognize bad. I have done a lot of reading on-line lately, getting back to trying to work out my problems rather than ignore them and saying "I can handle myself". The honest truth is, I can't. I know it is important how other people feel about the little things, but most of this knowledge is theoretical. If you explain to me why it upset you that I disregarded your conversation about clouds because it was hard to keep my interest in it and I HAD to talk about this new tetris record I made, I can understand it, as you talk to me about it, but I find it very very very hard to act on this theoretical understanding when the actual exchanges take place. And I do not think I have ever been able to explain this to anyone. typing is amazingly comforting and easy for me to do. Writing is my life-long obsession/interest and I read just about anything, if it holds titbits of topics that fascinates me, that's the crux. Oh and I have no idea how to digress . . . I think I made this post really really long.

I will look into the books, not so sure about GRASP. I live in Shreveport, LA. To be honest out here it is still really strange to not be white, to dress in sweats and to be pagan. Actually everyone is usually severely shocked to their baptist socks when something seems less than nice, tidy and christian. This is the state that proclaimed that I may have depression maybe even a little ret*d, but autism was out of the question in their minds. they cant rehabilitate that.

If anyone has little tricks of the trade that may have worked for your family or your kids, I would appreciate all of them. Worst part of all this is I think my dad was in the spectrum, but since he passed away its too late for me to figure it out. Another quick question, is it just me or there are more autistic boys than girls? (im a girl btw)

I have read on this forum about other people who have had success with forays into acting, or studying acting AND human behavior. In doing this, they can PRETEND to be NT, and have success with fitting in, or being a better friend or companion to people. This may not be for you, but if you have even a slight interest in acting or psychology, studying up may help.

I try to get my son to watch movies and/or situation comedies. He is primarily interested in action movies (as am I), but it's the give and take of conversations in movies that is beneficial to somebody who doesn't understand them. If you didn't want to do a support group, then focused observing of movie conversations would be good. You could even make it super technical, and count the seconds or minutes of how long one person speaks, vs. when the conversation switches to the OTHER person. You could count the seconds of silence inbetween normal conversations. Try and make it as technical as you can, and realize that heated discussions (verbal fights) will go at a much quicker pace than casual conversation.

You write very well! You are a good writer and describe how you feel and behave in a most articulate fashion. It helped me too, to have some idea how my son must feel day to day. I also appreciate your comment about don't be upset when your adult child is mean, they probably don't mean it....

You are well aware of your social mistakes. Not having a formal diagnosis is a problem. Because it may prevent you from being eligible for programs to help you. And it sounds like you sincerely want help. I went to the Oasis website sponsored by Tony Attwood, a specialist in all things autistic and located the local services page for Louisiana:

OASIS @ MAPP

There are various programs for learning social skills, the one I am most familiar with is Michelle Garcia Winner, she is located in California, which is geographically out of the question for you but she has a great website, books and tons of information:

wiki social thinking

Um that is not her website, it is about her though, Could not link to her page this morning no idea why.

One more link about local services in Louisiana from another autism website:

autism speaks

Tenacity counts. A lot, don't give up on yourself.

As far as your mom, it sounds like she is in complete denial about you. She must be intelligent because you are, she is trying to minimize your difficulties and this has got to be hard on you. I don't think you can change her, and I am sure it has to be beyond maddening to have your parent tell you, oh you just need to quit being a space cadet dear....no answers for you on that one.

I am guessing you want to create a happy balance in life, where you are you but you still manage to get along well enough in the NT world.

Probably finding a local support group, and coming up with some strategies for the day to day stuff, like hygiene, conversation, and staying on task is what you want to do. It would be very hard to work all this out on your own.

Posting here is a step in the right direction.

Boys are diagnosed with autism about four times as often as girls. They are starting to think that autism in girls might look somewhat different from how it looks in boys, which could account for some of the difference in the diagnostic rates. But even at that, boys account for way more of the autistic population than girls.

I live in a very different part of the country, so I don't really know what it's like where you are, I can only try to imagine. From what you say, I wouldn't like it either.

Lots of people have trouble responding as quickly and immediately as they're "supposed to." There's a continuum of how quickly people respond, and when people need more time to process things, it can make oral communication quite difficult. Depending on the situation, and the topic, it may be appropriate to say, "I need time to think about that," or "I'll get back to you." Sometimes, pretending to be in a hurry, or having to take a phone call so you can't respond (I know, it's like lying, but sometimes, it can be necessary), can buy you some time before you have to deal with something when you need to think things through.

I'm NT, with a PDD-NOS son, and a husband that I'm sure is on the spectrum somewhere. When we first got together I was the typical, ignorant NT that saw him as emotionally distant, shallow, insensitive, self centered and introverted etc. We worked on a lot of these "issues" but I knew that he tried so I stuck around. I knew somewhere in there was a wonderful person (we were friends first) but my relationship with him was really hard. When I had my son and learned about autism it totally changed the way we saw each other and it was the best thing to happen to us.

I now know that he is not emotionally distant, he just expresses it differently, or has a hard time articulating or even recognizing his feelings, he has to be in the right place and time to talk about certain things, he does have one sided conversations but I no longer think he is only interested in his life and not in mine...etc. Learning about autism, working with my child and becoming more and more aware of what goes on inside his head has profoundly changed us. We are so solid now, and I wouldn't trade him for anyone.

For the couple of friends you have, try to get them to understand what it is like for you. I learned a lot from this site, and many times I have printed strings or comments and shared them with people who I thought the post would help them understand a certain point I was trying to make but said it in a different way. There are many people on here that can beautifully articulate what it is like to have AS, and explain it in a way that we NT's can wrap our heads around. The more people "get" you, the less conflict you should hopefully have. Relationships are a lot of work for anyone so too many would be really hard to manage, but if you have one or two people that truely care for you, educate them so they "get" you. My husband and I worked hard and do well, and we never fight anymore but it took a lot of work and a lot of time and patience. I can't remember the last time we had any kind of conflict, and when we do it's usually over parenting

It takes a while for us NT's to get it so don't give up. Try to educate in small chunks rather than going over the whole spectrum of issues. Start with OCD maybe, and explain what that is like for you and give them as many resources as you can. Explain that you are present and not distant, it's that your body language doesn't express that. Listen to your friends and ask them what they need from you, and see what things you are able do to meet in the middle somewhere.

I could go on and on about this. You are more than welcome to PM me any time. I don't know if I can help, but I certainly can be the NT point of view. I spend a lot of time educating people about autism, and trying to get them to see autism in a different, positive way and I value this population very much, largely because of the insight the people on here have given me. I think the world needs people like you...it's just a shame that people don't get THAT! My son is a gift. I wouldn't change a thing about him.

Hang in there!

I was afraid to click on this topic because we sometimes get some pretty severely critical posts from AS adults venting about how horrible parents are. However, I was touched when I read your post. I agree with another poster who said your mom is in denial about you having any type of condition. I imagine that for her to admit that you have autism or Aspergers would be like admitting she failed as a parent because she never did anything to get you a diagnosis or help you in that regard. I am obviously making a big assumption when I say that and even though it may sound completely illogical, as a Mom, I can see how she could feel that way. So, it may be asking a lot for her to ever really "get it".

I agree with what MommyJones said. Give your friends small bits of information about the things that are difficult for you and try to find other ways to show them that you care. For example try to find out what your friends' favorite things are, most people enjoy a special type of treat, chocolate, coffee, avacados, getting flowers... I know when I lived with roommates, the best present I got one time was waking up to the kitchen sparkling clean and my favorite breakfast item set out waiting for me. I guess what I am trying to say is that you may not be able to carry on conversations or show emotion in the way your friends might expect but you CAN do other little things for them that show you care. It takes some focused attention to find out what little things make them smile. They will appreciate your efforts.

I would encourage you to try again with different medical professionals to get a proper diagnosis for yourself. I know this is hard to do once you have been treated poorly. One thing that the parents on this forum discuss a lot is that there are good docs and therapists out there and then there are lousy ones. Please don't give up because of the bad experience that you have had. It sounds like a correct diagnosis may open doors for you to get help. It's tough to ask for help but it is worth it.

Good luck and glad you came here to the Parent's Forum! I hope you hear something that helps!

While it's meant for a therapist and for teens, I am slowly taking my son through the PEERS training manual. http://www.amazon.com/Social-Teenagers- ... 0415872030 I have a feeling other resources might be better for you, but there is a point in the first chapter that I think might help you with your roommates.

I think that my son and many other autistics think the purpose of conversation is to give information. PEERS states at the beginning that the purpose of a conversation is primarily to learn about the other person and to have them learn about you, so you can find what you have in common to talk about. If you consider that your responsibility in any conversation is to find common ground, then you might have a better chance of connecting with your friends.

I know my son has volumes of terrific stuff stuck inside his head that he's itching to share, and he tends to bore people with it. I have this issue as an adult (I'm more than likely on the spectrum as well.) I've found for myself that people tend to appreciate all that information if it is written - I write a blog about my special interests. The internet is a wonderful place, where you can put all sorts of information out where people who need it can find it.

Good luck! I know it's difficult, hang in there. Take help where you can get it.

Thank you very much for all of your advice. I really want it to see the problems from the point of view of someone NOT on the spectrum. From the good people that have to deal with our fits and our literal point of view and who has to put up with the millions of questions. The main problem with my mom in this situation is that when I was younger her own psychiatrist wanted to see me, she said she suspected some developmental issues, my mother refused to take me. to this day when I told her I was searching for help had gone to doctors she was very upset about it. Said best thing I did was quit going to the psychiatrist because mental records follow you forever and you do not want that when you are getting a job or want to have kids.

I told her I have problems going to the GROCERY store, why would I want to start dating and get married? She wants me to either marry and have kids and get a regular job in an office somewhere or stay home and take care of her in her later years.

My roommates have told me they think she is unstable and they try to shield me from her quite often. Usually when me and her talk I am so drained that even my roommates can sense it. They get me a book to read and maybe a piece of candy. That usually helps. They are very understanding people, but sometimes it just really gets to be a bit much, you know? People get irritated when you are relentless. Maybe they feel that by now, after these many years I should at least know how they react and express themselves. It is actually quite tasking to handle that, but I try and well we haven't really argued a lot in the past week, so I feel silently proud of being able to pay attention these past few days. I do not want autism to be my excuse.

Are your kids very sensitive to touch? I have read about that but have mixed feelings about it because I am very touch sensitive, but instead of being uncomfortable i love being touched. When something hurts it REALLY hurts. It took a lot not to cry when i got my flu shot. It felt like my arm was peeling off. I love being hugged and cuddled but I hate having my shoulders touched unless they are squeezed, otherwise it feels very weird. I don't keep eye contact when I talk and I am not sure why, it is just super creepy to look at eyes. I stare at people's mouths but the problem is that I will get caught up in watching them move up and down and curl and miss the conversation half the time anyways I have a very hard time understanding people if i can't see their mouth, so telephone conversations are a nightmare.

I think I can verbalize in text because I can "converse" from start to finish, out loud it is a disaster, usually with me missing cues and feeling like I got ants all over me. Plus my gaze slowly degenerates from staring at a focal point near the face down to shoulders to my own hands to fidgeting with something and forgetting I am being talked to o,0.

I will look into the reading material and resources, I appreciate them a lot. And I appreciate being able to sort of Gage your side. I will let you in on another secret: I am good typist because my hand-writing is almost illegible and I hear that most autistics are not interested in fiction, I sure am. More so than real life. Sometimes I feel that people may not believe me because I do not have a single fixated interest. I sort of grow out of them, get something new, then go back to them later. I am obsessive about my pursuit until . . . something else strong comes along. My grammar is bad, but I use spell check. And though I know I have feelings and in theory i can understand others have them, too, it makes me mad to be asked how I feel sometimes or i think the worst question "How do you think that makes ME feel?" I don't think it at all . . .

Update: I talked to my mom and tried to sort of, explain my point of view to her. SHe said it was an excuse for me to not want to do social things with her, did I not love her? It did not go well with her.

My roommates are being a little bit more understanding. I asked my friend that if she was talking with me would she mind being very very specific, she said she did not and her husband and her both want to read more about autism and what not.

It sounds like your friends really care for you and your mother is either in denial, or doesn't understand you at all. My guess she doesn't understand because she doesn't want to. That sucks. That is something that I do NOT want to do to my son.

Autism is not an excuse, it's a reason. There is a big difference between the two. If you choose to be intentionally rude to someone, and then say you can't help it because of your autism for whatever reason, that's an excuse. If you choose not to try and just say you can't, that's an excuse. You are not doing either one of those, you are trying to cope in a world where people don't understand you. That is a totally different thing.

If your mom is having a conversation about this, can you try.......

Mom, it's kind of like if I asked you to speak to me in chinees. You don't know how, right? If you didn't start right away, it wouldn't be personal, because you didn't love me, but because you don't know Chinese. Now, if you do love me, perhaps you would buy books get a tutor or whatever to learn Chinese. It's likely that it would be slow going. It might suck because you dont see the reason for it. You may not really want to learn Chinese. If I made you go to a bunch of I portent functions where the only language was spoken, was Chinese, you may do or say some stupid things because you aren't proficient.

That's what its like for me - I'm willing to learn, but I don't know the language. It's not going to be immediate. Just like a language, I realize I don't know it, so simple instruction is welcome, just don't be mad at me because I need it.

Of course this fictional conversation assumes you both don't speak Chinese.

Realizing I don't know you or your mom at all however, it does not sound like she is going to come to grips with your situation any time soon. Please don't let her negativity make you question yourself. That may be difficult since she is your mom after all. You are the one who has to live your life though. It is impossible for me as a parent who REALLY wants to, to know what my ASD child is thinking or feeling even when I try really hard to be tuned in to him. I get it some of the time but I still miss a lot too. If your mom doesn't have the willingness (as it appears from your posts she does not) to try to understand you then it is not going to happen. I can imagine that her attitude may feel discouraging to you. One way you might deal with her is just be "light and polite". Don't try to engage her in any discussions of your autism or any other difficult subjects. Say hello and how was your day and stuff like that. If she asks you to do something social with her and you do not want to, politely decline, maybe practice a phrase you could use like, "Going to that place makes me feel very uncomfortable and stressed out" and maybe offer to do something else with her instead, staying home and doing a puzzle or baking cookies, (I don't know you at all so don't know what kind of home activities you might like). If you practice your statement before hand it might be easier to say when you are in the midst of the situation.