'bad' behaviour and reactions from Dad

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My son is 17 yrs old. I have never had him diagnosed but everything that he is - has been since he was small - points to AS. It's ok with me, I don't think it matters at all so that's why I didn't bother with a dx. He is an incredibly talented writer and also loves art, but hopeless in maths/logic. Most of the time we're fine, but I just can't seem to get through to his dad that he has to react in slightly different ways to some of our son's behaviour.

He's mostly pretty stable, but now and then he just explodes with rage about something inconsequential ( to us) and I have learned to just let it happen - he storms off, he clams down and he's forgotten what it was about. My h can't - he screams at him, and the whole thing escalates into WW 3. I've tried to explain to him that his reaction is making it worse, and I've tried to explain to my son that he needs to know that his dad doesn't understand. I end up in the middle telling both of them to stop shouting but my h thinks that means I'm allowing bad behaviour.

Any ideas ?

Why not get him a diagnosis, would your husband understand him more then?

I don't have any other ideas, but will say this is a similar problem with my father and me.

You need to find a way to get through to your husband and educate him or encourage him to educate himself about the autism spectrum, in order to become a better father. If talking to him doesn't work, you might consider trying: getting him a book to read (see sticky for some recommendations), watching a movie together on the subject (for example "Adam" or "Temple Grandin"), attending together a lecture/seminar on the topic, finding and going together to a therapist/counselor. If he is open-minded then one of these ideas might help. If he is in denial, then counseling/therapy may be the only way. Best of luck!

Denvrdave

Umm - denial is not really what it is. He sees the world in a completely black and white way - he is just not prepared to adapt to anything that is different.

Therapy/counselling ? Not a chance. I will keep on trying with getting him to read up, that may be the only way. It's sad because they end up not speaking to each other, and I'm afraid that their adult relationship will be less than good. My h had a distant realtionship with his own mother (no father in the picutre) so the whole family thing is difficult for him anyway.

buryuntime - not sure if it will make any difference but it's a thought.

Thanks for the advice ppl.

Wish I had advice, I am in the same boat. My son is only 5 though, and I envision his future to be what you are describing with your husband and son. My husband is good father, he is not in denial, but I guess he thinks our son is going to "grow out of" some of his behaviors. For whatever reason, he does not read up on AS even though he is an avid reader. I really can't understand why. He thinks if we just discipline our son more, then his behaviors will improve. Sorry to say that it doesn't seem to work all of the time. For example, our son is going through a phase of making strange noises all of the time. I truly believe that he is doing it as a form of attention seeking. I would just like to try ignoring the behavior for a few days to see if that would eliminate it. But no, my husband just wants to keep telling him to be quiet and to go to his room, and threatening to take things away. It is not working!! !

Maybe some other posters will have some answers! I wish I did......

Got no ideas, magicmum, but your approach is the best and the only way to calm things down.
Your son sounds like me. Whenever soemone screams at me, they just escalate it and I get more wound up. You have to make your hubby understand that somehow. Could the three of you try to talk it over when all three are calm and in good mood?

Sadly, this was my relationship with my father too.
And we still don't see eye to eye.
Even a diagnosis won't change that - he'd never have faith in it.. 'touchy feely s^t' he calls it.

I only just realized this year that I have Asperger's. It has shown me that all the years of arguements between me and my father (and me and employers) was due to miscommunication, and failure to understand each other.

My only suggestion at this point is to focus on altering your husband's views on one part of AS at a time. At this point, for you, i would suggest this:

Make sure your husband knows that body language is NOT under your son's control, and that when there IS an arguement between the two of them, your husband has to become the more 'aware' person and realize that your son's 'angry body language' - which your husband is seeing on a subconcious level - is NOT THERE, even though your son is projecting it.

Your husband, if he wants to have any kind of respectful relationship with his son as they move forward, is going to need to learn how to deal with that miscommunication and simply walk to another location in the house, and tell your son to follow him - both need to SIT down to finish any and all arguements.

Sitting (especially in comfy chairs) not only inhibits body language, putting them on a more equal level, it also has a calming effect. It allows your son to choose his angle of eye contact, and reduces the 'fight or flight' feeling that your son is usually feeling (yes, that's right - fight or flight). Your son is DEFENSIVE when in most of these arguements. Anger directed towards us, or even just an attack on our idea / thoughts leads us to confusion, frustration, and a desperate defense of our logical understanding - any anger or rage stems from the frustration of not being heard, listened to, or understood - usually because we get stuck or interrupted while trying to explain our position on the topic of concern...

Wow I ramble. But maybe you get the idea and maybe it'll help.

Your son can and should learn to take some responsibility for preventing the pin drop rages. There is always a build up that leads to it, and you need to help him recognize that build up, and help him develop strategies for letting out the stress in a more reasonable way. True, the way your husband is dealing with it most certainly isn't helping, but your son does need to learn to see these things coming and work to mitigate the situation.

In our house, if my son says, "I'm getting close to having a meltdown," everything stops. He does what he has to do to self-calm and get himself under control. That is the exchange: he tells us when things are getting overwhelming for him, and we honor that by making it easier for him to get back under control.

Temper is similar. They do have to take responsibility for seeing the situations that can lead to a temper, and for releasing the frustration before it all goes out of hand. It will never be perfect, but they do have to try.

Stop making excuses for your husband. He may not understand but that does not excuse his behavior, and having AS does not excuse your son. This is going to sound harsh, but stop being codependent because it really doesn't help anyone. In fact it might be making things worse. Your family needs professional counseling.

D'oh!
Was posting late at night again and 'ranting' my lopsidedness again.

Failed to remember / see / apply how old your son is.
Yes. DW is absolutely right - if your son is 17 and aware that he has AS issuesthen he should be part of the solution!.

MY problem, not yours', was that I had no idea about AS until this year, and honestly didn't know I had body language miscommunication issues (since then I've asked and been told how bad they are - not terrible, but often mixed) and though I knew I had tone, speed and volume issues (because mom was always trying to get me to fix them). Heck I didn't even know such issues could exist! Or that body language, a topic I had actually read (and probably still own) two books on (they were my step mothers' and I purloined them in the interests of relieving boredom!!) had any associated disorders.. or rather that there were disorders including body language issues..

Anyways.. I didn't know there was such a different way of viewing the world. I didn't know there was AS. I was at a disadvantage, until this year, of comprehending why my father jumped to rage so quick - I had always assumed it to be a product what I saw as his illogical memmory (poor literal word choices) and his penchant for anger (I remember the precise scene that led to the divorce). I see now that I (unknowingly) escalated things with body language and attempts to impose my precise logic on everything... which I never realized was a (likely) trigger.

(Responding this way to bosses who accused me of various inactions or mismanagements attained the same results, and I had classified them all as nutz too...)

Bah. I go on again. is this in any way helpful?
I already said what I came to say: DW is absolutely right.

Whichever of them notices an arguement is getting out of hand first needs to realize they are going to be worse off if they don't stop. Have a "Magic Word" that means "Lets shut up now and sit down somewhere". Whoever says it first during an arguement is more mature...

(Family counselling never worked for us - but then again, we didn't know about AS - correct that; my father has since admitted to my sister that he wondered if I had AS at some point and discounted it [still discounts it] so thatt may have been a factor. Incidently I still remember the counsellor telling me in a private session that I had 'the best grip on the situation' )

-brainflash- I wonder if that's who my dad heard about AS from?

i am just going to throw this out there, is it possible your husband is autistic? this one sentence is very descriptive of typical autistic thinking. and the screaming arguments between him and your son could be a form of meltdown. if he is, there are ways to help avoid the arguments, but the approach will be different than if he is a typical adult expected to control himself in a sensory overwhelming argument.

honestly, i see just about the same exact thing between my autistic SO and my oldest son who is 14 and very oppositional. they push each others buttons, sometimes intentionally and sometimes unintentionally, but when they do, they both go into survival mode and its all fight no flight. my SO, adult or not, loses the ability to react rationally and control his emotions. ive learned to let the little arguments play out, as its often both parties responsibility. when it escalates i do intervene, making them retreat to separate rooms. usually both are apologetic afterwards.

its just something to consider, given that there is a genetic basis for autism and it runs in families. its not uncommon for a parent to discover they are autistic after having a child diagnosed, my SO is one of them.

DW_a_mom: It's impossible to stop it when someone keeps pushing you and won't give you the possibility to withdraw and calm down. That seemed to be the very problem here, that the husband wouldn't let go, escalating it.

Thanks everyone - wow I am so glad I found this place. For a while I have felt so isolated.

Hmm I think that may well be my son. My h has been sulking for 2 days now since the last argument. And my son was over it almost immedaitely, which is usually the case.
I like the ideas about both of them recognising that they need to stop before things get ugly. And I think that my son is going to be the one who will actually be better at trying this.



Oh that is JUST SO. And maybe it is because he has some issues himself, but it's never going to lead to counselling/therapy/talking to anyone. Hell I can't even talk to him about it ! He just looks at me in a bemused way and always thinks that I'm babying our son and letting him get away with stuff. He was the same with our daughter when she had a self-harming problem as a young teen - he just totally ignored it and considered it was all about attention seeking and there was nothing actually wrong. Just as now - he believes it's just so that our son can get away with whatever he likes without consequences. He doesn't see all the hard work I do to make sure he understands AFTERWARDS and to talk about what went wrong and how to handle it next time.

But I will certainly talk to them BOTH about these ideas. My son is actually more comfortable now talking about AS and after an explosion I find that I can talk him down quite well and follow up with a Q & A if you like about what happened.

I am SO grateful to have a place to come where others understand what's happening.

Thanks

Post meltdown Q&A! What a good idea...

Do you think it is ? It seems to work - when he's over it and calm we can talk about HIS feelings and what was happening but I find it hard to explain his dad to him

Yes, post incident breakdown is very helpful.

And I remember my mom all my life trying to explain my dad's behavior to us ... thing is, there was no explanation. He acted irrationally at times. Looking back, I am sure my dad was AS, but without any knowledge of it. He tried really hard, he just ... couldn't handle certain things well. Reading your description I figured your husband was kind of stuck being who he is while your son had some chance at doing better, so I addressed the later. It is possible that the only way to explain dad will be to say, "he doesn't handle it right, and that isn't your fault or responsibility, but at this stage in his life I don't know how to help him change." Also make it clear that your husband does face consequences for that, even if they are not obvious to your son. Kids need to understand that all negative behaviors do carry a price of one sort or another, even to grown ups.