Swim lessons

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So my soon to be 5 year old daughter hasn't been officially dxed yet, but the more I read the more convinced I become that she has aspergers. She is being evaluated in a few weeks.

We have been trouble finding an athletic activity for her (not surprising if she has AS I suppose) she's very uncoordinated. She likes to try most things we place before her but is very uncoordinated and either unwilling to try or unwilling to learn. For example I had her enrolled in a yoga class when she was younger and she would either ignore everything and run in circles or she would try, but in the most wrong and akward way and would never improve (in comparison to her peers in the same class). So then I tried soccer, same sort of thing. She would try some activities, but it was like she couldn't or didn't want to listen to the instructor and would make poor repeated attempts at the activities and then she eventually refused to participate. So I figured, hey yoga and soccer aren't her thing, no big deal.

So she seems fairly obsessed with water and water like substances so we decided to try swim lessons (plus from a safety standpoint I want her to know how to swim). She loves playing in the water and has no apparent fear of it. The swim lessons are a complete and utter disaster they tend to go thusly (choose one):

1) she participates, but really either can't or is unwilling to really follow the instructions. The instructor says kick and she kind of kicks but her body position is all akward and wrong. She won't stretch out and remains curled up kind of which creates a lot of splashing, but not a functional kick. We take her to the pool to work on this, no luck. She says she knows how to do it and is either unwilling or unable to improve, not sure which. And no, I don't think I'm being harsh in my assessment, the class is for 3-5 year olds and she is about the oldest one in the class. The 3 year olds are able to do much of which she seemingly cannot.

2) She doesn't participate, sits and watches/zones out.

3) doesn't participate, sits and splashes the instructor or other children and disrupts the class in general with various behaviors (splashing, spitting in the water, interupting, massive fidgets and wiggles, singing loudly) necessitating her removal (by me) leading to total meltdown, insistance that she has done nothing wrong and has no idea why she has to leave even though she was asked repeatedly to stop disrupting the class. This meltdown includes shrieking, crying, laughing, punching, and lots of spitting.

4) is doing 1, 2, or 3 above and someone mentions the "back float" leading to a repeated insistance that she is afraid of the back float and can't do the back float and will not do the back float or try to ever do a back float period. If pushed she becomes VERY agitated and starts freaking out even after you say "ok, ok NO back float" she just keeps going off the deep end. At this point either shuts down or goes into a tantrum as described previously.

First off, does this sound like AS? I'm assuming probably yes. Any suggestions? Should I just quit the swim lessons and just take her for fun ourselves? I really want her to learn how to swim but she is hindering the class for the other students and at this rate it will be years before she learns. My husband is an excellent swimmer, is it worth just having him teach her? Do kids with these sorts of behaviors listen to their parents better? I'm at a loss. We had a swim lesson today that ended 10 minutes early (for the entire class) because she was so disruptive and upset the other students. I should have removed her sooner, that's my fault. It's just I see the other kids her age taking the swim class with no issues and I just want the same for her.

For the record I suspect I have AS too, I score a 42 on the AQ test and a 142 (57 nt) on the aspie quiz, but my symptoms as a child were very different from hers. I was into spinning quarters, humming all the time, desperately afraid of lawnmowers and vaccum cleaners, obsessed with mr rogers, but I got through swim class ok at her age and learned to swim well enough to not die immediately if I was in the water.

I was lucky that our county pool had a swim class that was great for my son. It was focused more on water fun and safety. They did activities to learn to swim, but they were more fun and games type activities. They used lots of toys and games. Class 0 was just for kids who just needed to get used to being in a group, and being in the water and it went up from there. He was never very cooperative, but then again, he was not disruptive... so I am not sure about that part. He did swim lessons every summer with them until he could swim from one side of the pool (level 4) to the other in the deep end at about age 9, many of the other kids in the class were 7, but a few were older.

BTW... my son picked flowers on the soccer field. Sat down in the middle of the floor during basketball. He did good in football, but dad was coach, but he was never excited like the other kids. He doesn't play any sports now, but like to do "stunts" on his bicycle and loves to swim.

I am putting my 3 yo into swim this summer at the YMCA. He always wants to splash in the tub or "swim" so I figured this worth a shot. The class is for 30 mins. Both DH and I are horrible swimmers so this is his best shot for learning to swim. Hopefully he does well, but if not, we'll try again in the fall. The only "sport" he likes to do is run (which ties into his habbit of trying to run away). I am going to put him in track as soon as he is old enough. When he runs, his arms and hands flop all over the place but funny enough, he doesn't fall. He does look like he is about to fall though.

My 4 year old daughter takes swim lessons. When our daughter was 3 years old and not diagnosed with autism we put her in the lessons and she passed level 1. However, still undiagnosed, she was in level 2, and she became afraid of some of the more advanced things in the lesson, like submerging yourself in water so she just sat on the edge of the pool. On the 2nd day of lessons, she didn't want to go in the water at all, so we took her out. And now diagnosed with autism, we put her back into level one and she is happy there and she passed it again. We are trying to get her to submerged her head in water at home so we can put her in level two. Until then we have her registered for another set of level 1.

Swimming is a great activity for a kid on the spectrum: the sensory issues can be tolerable (depending on the kid) and the bilateral movement is comforting to them as well as helping them with coordination issues. We've had DS in swimming lessons for years and years, since he was 3 or so. He did not follow the trajectory of most kids in swimming: he would spend ages "stuck" at a particular level, and then suddenly jump forwards to the next level all at once. Back floating was something that held him back for a considerable length of time (IMO, he was just too skinny to float that way.)

We finally found swim lessons at our local high school that were both cheap and willing to let him stagnate in a particular group without being judgmental about it; so kids were grouped by ability rather than age (previously, we'd done the Y, where he did learn finally to put his face in the water: that's HUGE for a kid on the spectrum.) He had an odd kick and odd arm movements, and we just let him stay in the group with the younger kids until he improved enough to move to the next group. There are enough kids that come to swimming late that he had some kids in his group that were the same age. Daily lessons during the summer, so there wasn't as big of a learning lag from lesson to lesson, were also a big help.

The other good thing about swimming is that it offers a physical activity you can participate in without teamwork, and without competition if you choose (the swim team, which we're going to have to move up to, offers a non-competitive option.)These particular lessons were great in that they were very specific and they modeled each movement. I think pictures (do a google search) for each movement are helpful, too.

I teach swimming lessons and maybe can offer a perspective.

Preschoolers are very fickle, and I've taught many students who were even too scared to do a bob (put their head in the water). The majority of preschoolers have some sort of disruptive behavior, or are too tense in the water to float. It's okay, some of them relax over time, or are more comfortable when they are tall enough to touch the bottom of the pool (if it's a full-size pool). 6-year-olds and up can be more mature, but even then, I have seen some who's parents know that the student is making no progress for some reason or another, but figure that keeping the kid swimming is the best thing for them.

I've seen kids with full-blown autism, taught kids with AS and PDD, as well as kids with ADD, brain damage and other attention disorders. It's not easy to teach them sometimes, and they tend to get stuck in levels, but I have seen the most progress in AS and PDD. Keeping her swimming early seems to help.

I've noticed that the kids who make the most progress have their parents swimming with them fairly often. I think that it goes a long way to just see the water as a fun and comfortable place to be.

EDIT: Also, I think I should say a bit about myself. I was diagnosed as an adult with AS. When I was her age, I had a near-drowning experience, and wouldn't put my head under water when my mom enrolled me in swimming lessons. I have since had problems with breath control, and have been scared of depths, but was able to overcome my problems enough to be a swim instructor and lifeguard. I was a late bloomer with swimming, but just sheer persistence and me swimming in my spare time has got me where I am.

Your daughter sounds so much like my almost 7 yo son at that age, from the lack of hand dominance to the classroom behavior, to the swim lessons. In gymnastics it was very hard to teach him to stay with the group and follow instructions. For swim lessons, group classes with 6 kids were bad because he wouldn't stay where he was told or follow directions. Looking back, the instruction was mainly verbal with some demonstration by the teacher. In our area there are a bunch of swim schools with a completely different style that worked much better for him. There are only 3 kids per teacher. While 2 wait on the tot dock (sometimes with water toys), the teacher holds one kid and swishes them in arcs through the water, ending in a face down float to the wall. The various schools disagree on whether to add kicking, arms, or bubbles next, but all use this hands-on method. DS took 5 months of twice weekly lessons to reach the point where he could swim half a length of the pool and I felt he was somewhat safe in the water. His current school also teaches kids with classic autism to swim. Private swim lessons are expensive, but might also be an option.

I would suggest requesting the forms to evaluate for ADHD in addition to AS. There are questionnaires that her preschool teacher would fill out, so it's worth doing them early and taking them to the eval. She might have a "predominantly ADHD" style of AS like my son. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk to someone whose kid seems similar.

We have tried gymnastics, swim lessons, soccer and TaeKwonDo. Gymnastics worked for quite a while, like several months and then suddenly DS (6 yo) just didn't want anymore to do with it. Finally, I bought him a set of golf clubs. We haven't gotten past the backyard hitting foam golf balls yet but I think golf might be his sport. Based on my experience, I would caution you not to push too hard. IF you have heartily encouraged her, e.g. pushed past her first refusal or problem, and there are no positive results, back off. Even though her behavior might look like "won't" it is more likely "can't" or "can't yet". There could be so many reasons why she can't, fear, confusion, overwhelming sensory input... not to mention her lack of coordination. ASD kids often have difficulty with proprioception, or knowing where their body parts are in space. This can make ANY physical activity pretty difficult. Get her into occupational therapy and work with the therapist on finding activities that are more suited to her needs and abilities.

Thanks for all the responses.

Bombaloo- yes, I think I am finally there on the "won't" vs "can't". Today we took her to the pool and I took it pretty easy and just played with her and just sort of tried to get her to do stuff while playing. My husband really wants to see progress and started trying to get her to put her head in the water and do a back float. She would do the most she was willing to do and she was 100% convinced she had done much more than she did the time before and that she had made great strides towards learning to swim. To us, she had done exactl what she had done last time. Maybe she got 2 more hairs on her head wet. My husband got very frustrated and pretty mad that she wouldn't try or even entertain the notion of trying to say... submerge her nose. or an ear. or the top of her head. I told him point blank, that to her that WAS trying. That was it and she couldn't do more (ok can't do more without freaking out) and him getting frustrated with her was only gonna make her more uptight about it. He's starting to get it. The whole time he's like, "why is she kicking like this, why can't she kick like this?" and "why is she curling up like this?" and "Why does she keep spinning in circles when I talk to her?" I'm way past accepting whatever is going on and just want to get started on figuring out how to help her. He's stuck on seeing and accepting.

Zette- yes she is also going to be evaluated for ADHD as well. She's having two evals by two different psychs (one specializes in adhd and the other in AS. I think we might finish out this session of swim lessons and continue to take her to the pool ourselves and just trying to play with her there and get her comfortable with getting her head wet. If she weren't disrupting the class I would sign up for another session, but if shes disruptive she is stealing from the other students. Group classes are really hard. Just today she was asking why we don't go to yoga any more and I said "because you ignored the instructor and ran in circles instead of paying attention and doing the poses" and she very strongly disagreed insisting she did pay attention and do the poses. We stopped going because the instructor asked me to not bring her back and to find something more "energetic" for her.

deltafunction- we have been going to the pool a lot, but really just this year, before that we didn't have access. She is not afraid of the water, just won't put her face, ears or most of her head really into the water. Plus the general problems with listening and following instructions. I think she would do TONS better if the pool were empty. Pools are pretty chaotic. I even signed her up for the earlier swim class (she was taking one at 1045 on saturdays, now she takes the 10am) beause I thought if the pool was emptier it would help. It seemed to on her first lesson of this session when also only 3 kids showed up for the class. But this past saturday 6 kids showed up. She definately does better if there are fewer kids in the class.

Apraxia may also be an issue, if your child has motor planning issues, this comes up in pretty much any physical activity, I think.

I had trouble with the face in the water thing, and they didn't let you progress if you didn't do that. I had major problems in summer camp, because I finally got sick of taking the same swimming lessons year over and over again because you had to pass a certain level to be allowed to swim. Then I got hassled for opting out. Still cannot stand chlorine in my eyes, and those eye goggles never sealed the water completely out, even with my eyes closed. Of course they might have better ones now, or my parents just didn't spring for expensive ones. Chlorine in the eyes is terrible.

I was thinking. I read somewhere that certain things that children with AS refuse to do or are scared of seem insurmountable to them and completely are over whelming.

Would an accurate analogy for my daughter not wanting to put her head in the water or try a backfloat be like asking the average joe to go outside and run a 5 minute mile, right now? The average person would not even try it because it's insurmountable to them at that point in time. Had they been asked to run a 12 minute mile, they might have given it a try. Likewise if you said to that same person "In one year I want you to run a 5 minute mile." That might also seem doable because they would have a lot of time to train. So they might try.

Accurate?

If it is; would a better approach in this case be to incrementally try to get her to do these things. Like on one trip maybe we focus on getting an ear into the water? Or an ear lobe? When we went to the pool yesterday she really thought she had been very brave and thought she had made tons of progress. Really, she got two more hairs on her head wet than she did the time before. But maybe that is like a new runner shaving 20 seconds off their time. Most of us would be like "so what? is it a 5 minute mile yet?" Where as 20 seconds for that runner might be a really big deal and in the end 20 seconds here and 20 seconds there would add up to a 5 minute mile eventually.

Am I making sense?

This sounds exactly like my sons at that age. As a matter of fact swimming lessons were one of our first major cues that there were significant differences between them and their same age peers. We now do private or semi-private swimming lessons (1:1 or 2:1 kid to instructor ratio). This helps with the attention and over-stimulation issues. We also had to give up the idea of them progressing in any way that would resemble their peers when it comes to learning physical skills. They don't have good muscle memory and they are not able to learn in a "linear" fashion; there is a lot of apparently mastering a skill one day only to have to go back and completely relearn it in a week or several months later. They are also not ready to develop certain skills at the same age or in nearly the same time frame as their peers, but they still love to swim, and now that they are in private swim classes with no peers to compare themselves disfavourably to, they like it even more.

I think the approach of being patient to the point where it almost feels ridiculous and letting your daughter learn things at exactly her own pace tiny bit by tiny bit is exactly what you have to do. We also found that it helped to really clarify our own goals in the matter frequently; it is amazing how quickly you can get off track when you start to worry about money and time wasted, and if your kid is really trying their best, and you get impatient or disappointed when it is the last thing your kid needs from you. So we often reminded ourselves that the badges and levels are completely meaningless. We aren't trying to raise Olympians, so form, speed and things like that are also meaningless. What we did want was for our sons to continue to like swimming and for swimming lessons to be a positive, pleasurable thing, for them to learn to be as safe as possible around water, for them to be polite to their teachers and for them to be able to experience a sense of accomplishment and competency (as in being praised for meeting small, realistic goals even if they don't look like anything to anyone else). When we keep aiming for those goals it ends up being a real win/win for everyone in our family.

Someone I know described their child on the spectrum as having "asynchronous development." So, while I'd agree with your assessment that she may not be capable of doing whatever it is at the moment - she may suddenly not only be capable, but exceed your expectations. And then get stuck on another level.

We've learned that DS wants to develop, and is a very good judge - at least when it comes to physical things - of what he is and is not capable of doing.

There are tons of videos on youtube if you search on "teach child to swim" or "teach infant to swim"

You might also watch a mommy and me class to get some ideas that they use to get infants comfortable with the water and with going under. My toddler girls just finished one, so here are some of the things we did in class:

- always began the class by using a cup to pour water on the back then the top of their heads (it's easier to go under if your hair is already wet
- For back float, hold the child facing away from you, bring them into contact with your chest, and then lay her head on your shoulder. Gradually lean back until you are supporting a back float with her head on your shoulder, and one hand under her back. Sing twinkle twinkle little star. Gradually (over many sessions) slide her off your shoulder, until you are supporting her head with one hand and her back with the other.
- Sing 5 bears in the bed and roll from front to back to front on the words "Roll over, roll over"
- practice floating between mom and dad, at first holding on, eventually letting go, and also going under the water
- practice jumping to mom or dad from the side of the pool
- practice climbing out of the pool "elbow, elbow, tummy, knee, knee"
- every float or jump was cued by singing "1,2,3, ready, go"
- use dive rings or toys to encorage kids to reach further and further down into the water to fetch the toy. Eventually lower it to the point they have to go under to get it. (This works really well if there are stairs to stand on.)

I wish I had a video of the swishing technique. They use it with older children as well. It's hard to describe, but I'll try:
1) Holding the child upright under the arms, swish backward through the water (to the right). Say "One" as you are moving her through the water.

2) In a continuous motion, rotate the child and swish backward in the opposite direction (to the left). Say "Twoooooo" as you are moving her through the water.

3) Rotate again for a 3rd backward swish (to the right). Say "Threeeeee" as you are moving her through the water.

4) In a continuous motion, turn the child to go forward on her tummy toward the water. Say "Reeeaaaady," while turning. If she closes her eyes, she's ready to go under. (If not, swish forward without going under.) Swish her under and back up. Say "Go," just before she goes under.

5) Eventually on step 4, you let go and let the child glide to the other adult or the side of the pool.