can't believe my child did that

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So, this is a personal issue, not really my child's issue. I have a hard time believing my children (boy 11 AS, and girl 13 NT) make choices to do things wrong on purpose then lie about it. I mean I know kids do that, but I never want to believe my child would do that TO ME. And I guess that is the real issue. I take it personally. It seems like they do it to me. My husband says they are "pulling the wool over my eyes," or that I am "naive".

For example. My son got on a free game ap and upgraded to the real one (cost 2.99) then added another related ap (3.99) the other night. My husband gets an email about all purchases so he found out about it quickly. I was like, "maybe he just clicked something and didn't know." My husband was like "really, you think that?" "He bought it and he knew he bought it and he knew it was wrong. Watch when I talk to him. You will see." Sure enough, my husband got him to fess up. He admitted he bought it, chose to buy it, put in the password to buy it, and thought we wouldn't notice it on the bill. I was dumbfounded.

As for my daughter. The other day, I got an email from the teacher that she didn't turn in an assignment that counted as a test grade. I asked her about it and she was like. "Oh, I turned it in. He must have missed it. I will talk to him tomorrow." I totally believed her. Then when she got a bad grade in that class, I printed off all her assignment grades and found out she had turned in lots of assignments late, including that one. Daddy confronted her and she totally admitted to lying to me. She had left it in her locker and didn't want to admit it, so she turned it in late the next day.

Why am I so gullible? Why am I so astounded my children will lie to me? Why can't I see through their lies like their daddy does? I am not going to do well parenting adolescents. Sigh.

You have to start looking at them as STRANGERS you gave birth to...for now anyway. Adolescence is difficult "for us moms" because we trust our so-called babies. They're becoming independent people now who don't have financial freedom and personal independence so they do bad things and upset us. Men (their fathers) do NOT readily see them as emotional attachments . They see them as individuals who are financially dependent upon him and they will just do as they please and start a fight. I had to create some kind of emotional distance from my daughter so as not to be hurt by her. She's WAY different from me. Now, instead of seeing her as my cookie-wookie eating baby-boo, I have to make sure she doesn't get into real trouble because she doesn't use her head. Of course I love my daughter but just between me and this website, I don't like her right now. She's 13. Older moms tell me that we all come full circle. As they get older and truly independent, they'll remember the love we gave them and they'll be kinder because they need us to help them raise their kids. I don't care what anybody says. My daughter is a b***h. (For now anyway).

It is true that they will come full circle.

Well I can't believe the answer to your final question is so simple you're not seeing it. But the reason you aren't seeing it, is the same as the answer to your question. Kind of an interesting conundrum there.

What's even more interesting is that you've already answered your own question right there in your post.

Rather than point you right too it, I think it might be a better lesson if you were to search through it and find it yourself. Because the answer is not the kind one usually wants to here from anyone else. It is one that is best arrived at on your own.

It's right there. Trust me.

So, I have read through my post several times, and I see several possiblities to what you may be referring to. Intellectually, I know all children do this and that is is part of the development of independence from parents. It is like so many things in life. YOu can read and know all about it, but it is not the same as experiencing it. I can't help "feeling" betrayed each time it happens, even though I "know" that is not the case. I can't help following that track of gullible belief that they would never do that to me, their mom, even though I know that's not true, and I know it doesn't mean I am a bad mom or that I am doing something wrong, or that they are bad kids.

I think you kind of answered your questions yourself right here too actually. It can help to see what others see too though, so I'll post your questions one at a time, along with what seemed to me to be your own answers from your first post.

Why am I so gullible?



Why am I so astounded my children will lie to me?



Why can't I see through their lies like their daddy does?





You're already halfway to the solution! You've already admitted that the problem lies within yourself.

The next step is really fairly obvious.

Stop it.

I know that may sound overly simplistic, but it really is that simple. You've outlined the problem very succinctly. The problem is not that complex. You don't want to believe they would ever lie to you, but you know they do.

Quit taking their word for everything, and make them prove it. Become, as the Missourians say, a "Show Me" mom.

I am not going to do well parenting adolescents. Sigh.

Nah. I think you'll do fine once you take the rosy sunglasses off.

I would add only one thing. I don't think it's a good idea to confront them about their lying specifically. They're not stupid. They know when they've been caught. I just wouldn't make too big a deal of it. They should pay consequences for it, yes, but lecturing on and on, or going on about how hurt it makes you feel will only complicate things.

I think it's better all around to just make them show you, let them expose their own lies, and lie in the beds they've made, then drop it. Don't lay any guilt trips on them. That'll just exacerbate the problem.

Kids lie. You know it. We all know it. It's as normal as life gets. Just accept it, and deal with it calmly. They'll learn.

If all the above makes you feel uncomfortable, or causes you to think of reasons why it's not so simple, you may want to think a little deeper.

The real problem may be that you don't really want to put your foot down. That linked to your unwillingness to believe they would lie to you, might be an overly strong desire to be your child's "friend."

If that's the case, I'd hate to break it to you, but you're not their friends. You are their parent. That job entails being there when they need you for comfort when they fall, but also means you are a warden in your home.

Sound unromantic? It is. Because kids lie.

Parents all need to learn that part of the job is not fun at all. Your kids need to know you have limits. They need to learn that there are limits in society too. If you don't teach them that, they're going to have serious problems later on. Loving your kids isn't warm and fuzzy all the time.

EDIT: I should add that I really believe that if your kids never get angry with you, or never say things like "I hate you!" that isn't necessarily a good sign.

I totally agree with you that I am not my child's "friend." I am a parent first. I also believe I have pretty good parenting skills. Both my husband and I have learned to adjust our parenting to my son's unique difficulties. And I have to say, I am proud of my children and think we are doing a fine job thus far. That is why I began this with it is about me. I know I have always had a trusting heart willing to believe anyone, the rose colored glasses and all. I have learned that I cannot be that way with most people.

I do have to be more investigative, not just trust them. That hurts me. I want to be able to just trust them, but that is not realistic. My husband can hear in their tone, the way they talk, the details (and missing details) and know they are lying. I hear them and it seems so honest to me. I think we do balance each other out though.

Thanks for talking this one out with me.

I don't know that I agree about not telling kids it hurts your feelings - of course, it depends on the kid, but I've found this to be an important part of explaining to him why lying is wrong. Of course, DS does NOT want to hurt my feelings, so YMMV - it simply doesn't occur to him in the moment how his lie might affect other people.

I do not try to guilt-trip him, but when we were first dealing with lying (as someone raised primarily on a guilt engine) I tried being antiseptic about it, and that backfired horribly. There are only two real consequences to lying: the chance of getting caught and facing those consequences, and the social consequences of hurting people's feelings and being thought untrustworthy. Gotta make sure DS understands that.

DS is also pretty bad at it, so I try to steer him away from lying as he's never going to get the benefits from it that NT kids will. It's a normal part of development (heck, some people never grow out of it) but it just plain sucks to be a bad liar. I think there are some other posts about lying and spectrum kids floating around here.

As for the hurt, it sucks when you can't trust people - even when those people are kids and haven't yet learned the value of being truthful. I'm very sorry you feel that way, it's natural to do so - but remember your kids aren't doing anything personal, they're just making their way the best they know how right now. They will have to learn somehow that this way isn't a good one.

Clarification: I didn't say don't tell them. I said it's best not to go on and on about it. As in, guilt trips. That's counter productive.

The point is, it shouldn't be about your feelings as much should be about what is right, and what is wrong. Keep it simple.

My thinking has kind of changed on this a little bit. I used to keep my own feelings completely separate and to myself thinking it was best and simplest; and also because my feelings were not things my son was capable of understanding.

However, after working with my son and him making a lot of progress (for him) on this, I am not sure that it is not a good idea to occasionally say something is disappointing or frustrating to me. I am not saying harp on it, and make it into a "thing" but if I am supposed to be teaching my son Theory of Mind, shouldn't I teach him that what others feel is relevant, too? I do think he needs to start to learn cause and effect with relation to feelings; If you do x, then on average most people will feel like y.

Is this completely off base?

Again, not to harp on it, but just to state it as fact, while also emphasizing that I will always love him regardless.

edited to say: In some cases the right and wrong of it does have to do with people's feelings. This is especially true when eventually you have to teach about lies told to save people's feelings etc. Sometimes what is correct and factual is unkind.

Example: Let's say my MIL gets my son an X-Mas present he hates, and she asks him if he likes it. I can't very well tell him she shouldn't ask a question that she is not prepared to get an honest answer to, despite the Aspie logic that makes that true. I am going to have to tell him to (if not lie) sidestep the issue and tell her it was kind of her to think of him or something.

Last edited by ASDMommyASDKid on 28 Nov 2012, 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Not at all. I do think your points about teaching them that their actions affect how other's feel is important. But I also think that the basic right and wrong of it is more important.

It can be too easy to focus too much on our hurt feelings, and cause the situation to look as if it's all about us.

That's the danger I think we need to avoid.

ASDmommyASDkid

I really struggle with this. I am a very emotive person who tends to emphasize mine and others feelings. Unfortunately, this has exacerbated my AS son's anxiety to an extreme.

Before we understood what was going on, around 3rd grade or so, we began emphasizing how his behavior hurt mommy and daddy, how he stood out and looked different or weird to the other children, how he made things difficult for them. He didn't seem to know how his behavior were affecting others. We thought that if he knew he would stop. The problem was he didn't have the tools to stop. In fourth grade, this turned into some serious social anxiety and anxiety about possibly getting in trouble.
He would do something "wrong" and when corrected, it would turn into a meltdown as he was sure his teacher no longer liked him. He would refuse to enter the classroom because "they are all looking at me." or "They know I was crying and think I am a crybaby." "They hate me." If the teacher suggested calling a parent, he would get physically ill to the point that I think some of the teachers thought he must be abused at home.

Not only did he not know how to fix what he was doing that made everyone upset. He didn't know what to do with knowing they were upset except feeling intensely guilty. So that's where we had to change as parents. We were giving him all the consequences with none of the tools to fix the behaviors or deal with the emotions.

Now we are working on normalizing those feelings. So yes, he lied to me. Yes, I was angry with him and it hurt my feelings. Which, I told him. Yes, he was punished for it and is having to work off the cost of the games he bought as well as losing access to them for a month. Secondarily, we are having to help him cope with the intense anxiety associated with making a bad choice, hurting his parents, and being punished. This is really hard. He has intense meltdowns (not trying to get out of it) but just overwhelmed by the feelings. It would be easier to pretend it was no big deal, and to not punish him, but instead we feel we need him to learn with a loving family how to face these situations, cope, and realize these are normal and not the end of the world.

I agree with you that all children need to know it is not just about the rules, but also about the relationships/trust.

That's the point I was making, too.

As for social lies, I am enough on the spectrum myself that I am uncomfortable with them. I am teaching my son that there is a difference between "telling the truth" and "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." He can always find something to say that is true and not unkind, and of course he can also opt to say nothing at all. I do not consider omission of information to be lying.

The good part of being an adult who is one of those sometimes-painfully-honest people probably on the spectrum is that I do have a certain amount of respect in my community for my own integrity and honesty. I can show him the benefit of telling the truth (even socially) when it is painful to do so - as well as the consequences.

One of the most challenging parts of parenting my son is that he learns best from modeling. It makes me paranoid that I'm not perfect most of the time, and therefore not providing the example he needs - but this one - I've got. At least I've got it better than most people I know.

That is what I am worried about, too. I think this is another thing that has to be fine-tuned to the child one has (like everything else.) It is so hard to know what the right amount of scaffolding is. Too much and the kid doesn't learn enough of what he needs, and too little and you risk a lot of emotional issues. I am going to tread very lightly.