Just when things are going well...teachers do something odd

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Hi Everyone

This is just a rant really, but it would be nice to hear similar stories.

My daughter's behaviour at home has been great. We had a lovely Christmas break and she returned to school last Monday. That day, she came out of school and she seemed a little upset. I asked her what was wrong and she told me that the teachers had moved some of the kids around the class (which they do fairly often). This time they moved M, from the seat next to her, and replaced him with E. My daughter had been getting on well with M. She had worried at the start, as he's a bit of a fidget, but she was very settled with him.

The problem is E. My daughter likes him and cares very much about him, but he has major behavioural issues, although he isn't even en route to getting assessed. [I speak to his Mum and she's nice, but she's listening to the wrong people. They are telling her that a 'label' will do him no favours and that the school will want him placed in a special needs unit, if he gets a diagnosis, which is untrue. There are three kids on the autistic spectrum in the class, including my daughter, and none are being pushed out, not that I'm sure E's on the spectrum anyway.] E has broken a window and a radiator, in the classroom, and mooned at the pupils, with the teachers present. He's not allowed normal scissors, due to his tendency to stick things, not just in his mouth, but down his throat. He plays with pencils, jabbing them into one another and hurting himself in the process. This sort of thing is continual and he's forever getting shouted at and sent to the headteacher. Of course this disrupts the whole class, but to have him sitting next to my daughter, out of all the kids, seems pretty stupid, as she has major concentration difficulties (the only thing she actually struggles with in class). She's not disruptive in any way, so it's not as though they're placing the disruptive kids together, to keep them away from the others. Or maybe they thought she might have a calming influence on him.

I knew last week that this seating arrangement was likely to give problems, but decided to give it a few days, as I didn't want them thinking I just had preconceived ideas about E. For the past week, my daughter has spoken about her fears that he's going to accidentally kill himself. It's caused concentration problems for her and I'm sure it's the reason her sleep has been disturbed. Yesterday was the final straw. She seemed upset when she came out of school. I asked her how many stickers she had gotten (she has a sticker book to enoucourage her to get her work finished). She said she didn't think she got many, but the teacher actually shouted at her for not completing her work and she was crying, but didn't think anyone noticed. She simply can't concentrate with this boy sitting beside her. She has access to a 'quiet' table, in the corner of he class, not far from her usual desk, and she has been sitting there more than usual, even when it's not convenient (e.g. she's copying from the board - her back's to the board, at this desk). But, its not helping much anyway, as he's sitting so close to it.

So, last night, I wrote a letter asking for either E or my daughter to be moved (it would make more sense for them to move E, given the position of my daughter's quiet table, but if they can't work that one out, it will give me more cause for concern). I expect the move will happen this morning, well I hope so anyway. I told her that I was writing the letter and she slept better than she has for a whole week. Where has their common sense gone? Or was this some sort of cruel experiment? This sort of thing causes me to lose the little faith I have in the education system.

Since I posted, I've had a call from the depute head. I thought the matter could have been easily sorted with my letter, but that would have been too simple. Her opening statement was in relation to one thing I said about my daughter - 'she has spoken over and over about her fears that he might accidentally kill himself'. She says that I need to tell her that this won't happen. So, I think I became quite enraged at this. I've spent a whole week trying to comfort my daughter and tell her that the teachers won't allow anything like that to happen and that she hadn't to get herself concerned about it. This has had no effect and she's not sleeping. She has Aspergers, she does get fixated on certain things. If there was a simple fix for the this, I think we'd all like to know about it. The simple matter is that this boy's actions cause her distractions, in more ways than one. She's worried about him, so thinking about that, and his movements (stabbing actions with pencils, etc) are causing her to focus on those, instead of her work. Then to top it all, the teachers are wondering why she hasn't finished her work. (a Duh emoticon would have been more appropriate)

Strangely, the DH said that M had been moved because my daughter was intimidating him. I was so angry at this, as I've never heard anyone say this about her. Even at the parents evening, not so long ago, I mentioned my daughter's social skills issues (she does have a diagnosis of Aspergers after all) and they immediately said, 'No, no, there are no issues like that. She's lovely'. That's not exactly what I meant, but if there had been issues about her intimidating other kids, that was their opportunity to mention it. I need to know about such matters, but communication is not forthcoming and I told the DH so. She tried to get out of it by telling me that M is quiet and the teachers thought he'd be better sitting beside a child with less of a personality than my daughter. Myself and my friend, who has a child with Aspergers too, often feel that when we mention another child, they always turn it around to our kids, no matter what the other child has done, even kids with issues far more serious than our own (like E).

She said that neither of them were getting moved today. I said that, if so, I'll be placing my daughter in the other catchment school. She is moving to another school anyway, after the summer (one more suited to her concentration difficulties), but it's still getting built. The DH was on the phone for over half an hour and I went off at tangents as well. In the end, she said that she'd speak with the teachers about it again and see what they could come up with. If there has been no change by then end of the day, I will really need to consider what's happening with my daughter's education, because it seems like they couldn't care less.

Argh what a pain, why cant they just move it back!? This sound slike a crazy situation that could so easily be sorted out!! Its so frustrating when you have done all you can and its up to the teachers to do the rest and they cant/wont/dont.

Ive not had a situation like this yet but we have a very small class and a great teacher, next year... who knows!

Hope they sort something out that she will be happy with!

Can you go around the department head and talk directly to the teacher?

My son is disruptive sometimes/often (not as severely as the boy you are describing, but just so you know.) My son gets what they call in the U.S preferential seating which just means the teacher is careful where she puts him. So my son had been sitting by himself last year which at the time was best for him and the class. This may be what they need to do with this boy, but I do not know how you can suggest it without it being turned around.

My son is currently sitting in a group, but they are very careful about where They keep him by a particular girl who has a settling influence (So, yes I think your instinct was right on that) and who is very focused. If your child is not focused, he is not next to the right person. I think that is an argument you can more easily make. I would emphasize that it is effecting your child's work, and maybe attempt to ask for preferential seating for your daughter so she can stay on task.

As far as her being afraid for the boy's safety, I doubt they will be able to mitigate that. You could try a social story, but it is hard to knock out an empathetic fixation.

It could be that your daughter is not doing anything that would normally be intimidating, but that M is an anxious child who is intimidated by her anyway. So maybe the decision to move M was for his benefit, but that moving E there instead was the wrong move.

It still doesn't make it right that your daughter should sit by E if he is disturbing her. I agree you should insist that something should be done. Is the seating situation bad enough that you are serious about changing schools over it?

Figuring out how to balance all the needs of children in one classroom is a difficult challenge. It may take some time to figure out. I would keep emphasizing how problematic E has been for your daughter, and maybe ask to sit down with the teacher to brainsorm alternatives. When I've done that, sometimes it has resulted in solutions, and sometimes I've come to realize that we've actually got the best we're going to get. Either way, at least I've done all I can.

Zette, The school move was probably going to be happening anyway. The P4s-P7s (where she'll be after the summer holiday) are in an open-plan area. I can't imagine it working for her. I've been in there and it's seriously noisy. The new school is being built to accommodate kids from her current school. We live in a newish housing estate, with 2500 new houses. So, there has been a huge increase in numbers at the school, which has existed since my Mum attended, in the 30s. The council finally decided that the school could not take any more pupils and decided to build another, in effect, splitting the school. We stay in the catchment area for the current school, but, as the new school has a more sensible layout, we're seriously considering moving her there. That's my main reason for moving her. She has very few friends and one of them is going to the new school, so I think (and hope) this is the right thing to do.

Thanks DW_a_mom, The DH seemed to be in some sort of denial that E is a problem, which seems to be a bit of stumbling block. She made it clear that she thought my daughter was exaggerating a lot of it, suggesting that she thought her autism might make her 'tell tales'. She also said that he's not bothered about her, completely missing the point that she's bothered by him just being there and doing the things that he does. I did get quite angry and told her exactly what was on my mind and how the parents in the playground have spoken about some of the more shocking things that their child has told them about E. I've told a few parents that she was sitting beside E and, as they know about her concentration problems, they were quite astounded that the teachers would ever think this was a good move. She has sat beside a few other kids whom she had no problems with, and it was mutual, and I'm sure there are plenty more to choose from (there's 32 in the class). My husband's phoning the educational psychologist tomorrow, to ask her to act as a go-between for us. Hopefully, she'll be able to come along to a meeting to discuss options.

ASDMommyASDKid, I hope I did not offend you in any way. My daughter likes the boy and cares deeply about him, her main distraction is caused by her worrying for his safety. He stuffs things in his mouth (a pencil sharpener today) and she's constantly on edge, in case he chokes. Despite her feelings for him, she's clearly not the right person to be sitting next to him.

I've not seen her sticker chart for last week yet, but I expect it's poor, as she doesn't remember getting many stickers. That should be enough evidence that her work is being affected.

I like the term 'empathetic fixation'. That's a very good description of what's going on. I got angry with the DH for suggesting that just telling her to stop worrying should do the trick. My daughter's very like me and my Mum, in that sense. We worry and, if someone's else's safety is at stake, then it will not simply go away, especially if we're constantly being reminded of it.

My thoughts exactly. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to work out they made a mistake. They're being very pigheaded about the matter.

I misunderstood. I thought you meant you would move her to a different school now, and then again when the new school opens.

My experience with teachers is you have ones that are attentive to all the kids (you will find these teachers calls the kids their kids, tear up at their achievements) and you get the tough love teachers. My experience for my DD is the tough love teachers don't gel with DD as she needs more nurturing and time and the attentive teachers give that to her. The tough love teacher would do the seating arrangement like your teacher with thinking your DD needs to learn to cope with different characters, not that l am agreeing with this. We have had 2 teachers who were tough love and both thoses years were horrible, DD would become depressed and often would have issues with what was going on with the teacher choices.
Not sure how the school system is in Scotland but here in Australia a parent usually pops in to see the teacher and have a chat. I have been my DD's advocate and you will find you have to fight for your child's needs, especially with aspergers as only you truely know your child and what works and doesn't. We were very lucky last year as we had a fantastic teacher who we have again this year, she understands DD really well and knows that how ever little the issue may be its sometimes best to sort it especially if it affects her learning and at worst DD doesn't want to go to school.
Another thought is use the words 'duty of care' for your teacher, as isn't it her duty of care to make sure all the children are feeling safe and happy so they can learn. This clearly isn't the case for your DD.
Also when chatting to the teacher come from a gentle angle, if you upset the teacher you will have her off side even though she will continue to be professional to your face. I have seen both sides since l have worked as an aide, most teachers are caring but you do get some with attitude or rigid in their ideas of how they do things.
Hope that helps and good luck.

Goodness, no, I was not offended at all. I see where I might not have been clear. What I meant is that I can see it from the other angle, and that agree that a child with a behavioral issue should not be put next to a child with focus issues. (I did not mean anything by the "thought you should know," part other than to clarify that my son has behavioral issues at a somewhat lower gradation than the boy in question, so you would know how much to value/weight what I was saying. Poor communication on my part. I am sorry to have made you think I was offended.

Talk to the teacher again and say,

"I understand what you are saying, I would like my daughter's seating changed anyway."
Nothing more, nothing less. Repeat, repeat and repeat.

Oh yes, I did say that. Sorry. Chances are, if the teachers refuse to move my daughter or E and she's still very unhappy, I will take her out of school and home-school her, until the new one opens. When I spoke to the DH, I mentioned the other catchment school, on the spur of the moment, knowing that they don't approve of home-schooling and not wanting to get into that debate. But, if home-schooling wasn't an option, then I would definitely consider the current catchment school and, if it went well, I would not move her after that.

My husband is speaking with the DH today, whether he gets to speak with the ed psych or not and I hope he'll stand firm on this one. He's much less likely to get emotional than I would and he feels very strongly about it, so I think he'll manage it.

A few days ago, I told a Mum I often speak to about the seating arrangment. She took a sharp intake of breath and said, 'I assume you're going to ask to have one of them moved'. I told her I was going to wait a few days and see what happens. Today, I told her what had happened and she told me that she had the same problem with this boy distracting her son. Her son isn't on the spectrum, but he's the youngest in the class and his concentration is not very good. Sitting beside the boy, his concentration and work really suffered, she's certain of it. She told me that she has been into school several times to discuss issues with E and has requested seating arrangments to be changed as well. On those occasions, they did move him. She also said that she knew of others who had requested moves as well, in relation to E. She's not a gossipy type, she's a very nice and mature lady and I trust what she says is true. So, I know for sure that my daughter's not the only one. The DH would have me believe that my daughter's making it up. I know she's not, but it's good to have concrete evidence, not that I would ever discuss this with the teachers.