Does this sound familiar?
My oldest (will turn 13 in March) is diagnosed HFA. He only got the official diagnosis recently, though we have been dealing with various aspects such as fine motor deficits for years. The middle child (will turn 12 in June), and is diagnosed with ADHD and ODD (He is my biggest handful to deal with).
My youngest child (the Sprout) will be 5 at the end of June. He is the one I have questions about today. Basically, does this sound familiar to anyone?
This child is very smart, I strongly suspect that he would test in the mildly gifted range. However, I don't think that anyone would be able to get an accurate measure in testing him due to his odd behavior. He refuses to perform "tricks". For example, he can count to at least 16. I've overheard him counting his toys when he thinks no one is paying attention. When asked to count some objects it goes something like this.
Dad: How many candies are in my hand *holds out hand with 6 candies
Sprout: Six. Give me the candy!
Dad: Count them out loud first
Sprout: 5,9,8,4,3! Give me the candy!
He might or might not give in and count it 1-6, and he never counts if you just ask him to count to a number without incentives. When he was somewhere in the 24 months, give or take 3 months range, he would count in base 3. Show him six items and he'd say 1,2,3,1,2,3. Four items was 1,2,3,1. He would even add and subtract. I saw his dad ask him once if he had three candies and added four candies (there were no actual candies in sight at this point) how many candies would he have, and the Sprout answered without hesitation, 1,2,3,1,2,3,1. Then his dad asked him to take two away, and the Sprout answered 1,2,3,1,2. He has stopped counting like that now, though.
I don't know how many letters he knows for similar reasons. At one point he'd play along and answer and he knew about 15 letters, that was a couple of years ago. Now, he has me convinced half the time that he can read, but doesn't want us to know that he can. Sometimes it is obvious that he is only "pretend reading" by making up what he thinks something says, but other times he gets things word perfect, and we have no idea how if he isn't reading. I am not sure if he is just memorizing everything anyone has ever once pointed out what it says, or what. His general refusal of cooperation makes determining practically impossible.
He is very particular about his things, he has bags for his various toys, and it is very rare that he leaves them lying around. For instance, he has a large collection of Super Hero Squad action figures. He takes his bag to a room, empties it one toy at a time, and lines them up like a little army. Now that he has so many, he makes several rows, so he can reach them all. Then he picks up one toy in his right hand and the first one from the line in his left and those two have a battle for a few seconds. Then the toy in the left hand goes back to the line and the second toy from the line has a battle, and so on and so forth. When they've all battled the toy in the right hand, he will either pick a new toy for the right hand or put them all back in his bag.
He doesn't like to transition from one activity to another and trying to add a timer to tell him when the activity is over only results in the entire time being spent protesting the timer. He won't step on cracks in floors or sidewalks. He likes to walk on his toes. He generally has no trouble separating to go to his one day per week preschool, but when he's at home he can be incredibly clingy to me, and often says things like, "I only listen to mom. Mom is the only one that is right" etc. Especially when his dad or brothers are telling him something he doesn't want to hear, like "Nap time." He is very obsessive about the computer, and would play on it 12 hours a day, if I'd let him. He mostly plays Angry Birds, but he can also turn on Youtube and watch Angry Birds and Plants vs. Zombies videos--which he finds by himself.
He told his first story when he wasn't even two. It had a decent plot, and involved a beginning, middle, and end. He's had an imaginary family, though we don't hear much about them any more. He literally talks like a child of at least ten years old in his language usage (I did have that tested, because his articulation sounded so immature. Turns out his articulation was normal for a four year old. It just sounded immature compared to his language). He is sometimes shy with strangers, very often refusing to speak to them unless they are one on one and entice him with something he finds interesting. My in-laws were convinced he couldn't talk until they started asking him how to play the Angry Birds game he was playing at Christmas this year.
He's never had any sensory issues unless the liking to walk on his toes counts. His motor skills and muscle tone are great. He's good at identifying and using words to describe emotions like, "I am very angry and frustrated, right now!" Although he doesn't always proceed from words to appropriate actions. I had to pick him up early from preschool last week, because he was hitting himself and choking himself and then throwing his shoes at the director's chair after he was sent out of class. His reason was that he'd been at his Mimi's all week (because one of the others was very sick) and he missed me (and Angry Birds, but he wouldn't say that), and didn't want to go to school, and that made him very angry and frustrated, so he did those things.
Does any of this sound familiar to anyone? He is very different than my oldest or the middle child was at his age, but he is very different than the average kid, too. I don't know if it has to do with his brothers both having behaviors related to their diagnoses or what. Neither of them show these particular behaviors, though.
Well, the oldest used to hit himself from frustration when he was younger, but he is 8 years older than the Sprout and I can't recall him doing it after the Sprout was born. The oldest does repeat things sometimes, but never to the extent that the little one does, and using movie quotes is a completely valid method of expressing emotions or as situation describing shorthand in this house, but no one else uses it to the extent that the little one does, or feels the need to repeat every word in every movie he sees or book that is read to him.
The middle kid is oppositional, as he says, "I just hate being told what to do." So some of the defiant, "I don't want to pick up my clothes! No, I'm not going to put up dishes!" is reminiscent of the middle kid. But the middle kid has never in his life shied away from showing off, so the thing about refusing to perform tricks is very different.
The one he reminds some family members of is me at his age. I had imaginary friends that took precedence over real people, and I refused to perform tricks. He's never seen that in person, though, and I have no idea about my own behavior when I was 3-4 years old.
I don't if any of this makes any sense.
It sounds like a phase...
When dealing with the other children, concessions must be made, as we all know. If the sprout is NT, this could be interpretation of his perceived reality.
That being said, approach with firm care and caution... if behaviors do not change with firm insistence, diagnostics may be necessary
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Yeah. I'm done. Don't bother messaging and expecting a response - i've left WP permanently.
I am not sure that I understand what you are saying. Some of these things are things he has been doing for 3-4 years, so I don't know how it could be a short term phase.
I think what I was mostly hoping for was that any one else had ever had a kid that has done these things that can say, "Oh yeah, that sounds like my kid! He turned out fine (or he didn't, whatever)". I was just really hoping for this to be familiar to someone, because I've never seen another kid do some of these things.
Has anyone been here before?
Is Sprout in school? Does he answer appropriately outside your home? Has the school suggested an assessment? He's right on the edge of the age for kindergarten - you might want to take him in to your school district and ask for an assessment if he isn't in school now (it should be free and shouldn't be a big deal; many preschools run screeners anyway.)
Almost the only thing we know for sure about autism is that there is a strong genetic component - therefore, while it's not unusual for families with multiple kids to have NTs, it's also not unusual for there to be multiple kids on the spectrum. A close friend of mine has three, all impacted. In other words, could go either way. I think that while NT kids might occasionally mimic their siblings' autistic behavior - it should come across as mimicry. Finding unique things to be different about strikes me as a possible red flag.
From what you wrote, I couldn't really say much other than that your son seems not to understand the expected answer, or not to want to answer in the expected way. Have you tried modeling and seeing if he can copy you, you know "repeat after me."
Keep in mind, I'm just a Mom and am no expert. What I'd say to anyone is to go with your gut feeling and if you have concerns, get an assessment.
There are several things that are the odd/quirky things that people often look back on after a diagnosis, but only a few things you said really stood out as things definitely on the spectrum to me. The lining toys up and toe-walking. Also, the way of interacting could be a pragmatic issue. It is not much like my son, but kids on the spectrum are all different. I think a helpful book might be "Raising your spirited Child"
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NT with a lot of nerd mixed in. Married to an electronic-gaming geek. Mother of an Aspie son and a daughter who creates her own style.
I have both a personal and professional interest in ASD's. www.CrawfordPsychology.com
If it helps, DS wasn't diagnosed until 1st grade (with a fairly lame diagnosis by the school) and 4th grade. He struggles with cracks on the sidewalks and timers and perfectionism (erases holes in paper, etc.) These are all his particular expression of autistic rigidity, although he does edge over into OCD-type or Tourettes-type tics to some degree.
DS also has always been far ahead with verbal skills, was making full short sentences at 9mos and had a near college-level vocabulary in 4th grade. I didn't realize at the time, but he relied heavily on "scripted" language.
DS punishes himself physically when he is under a lot of stress and perceives that he has done something wrong: hitting, choking, head banging, poking his hand with a pencil. We haven't seen this behavior for some time, but we have been working very hard to reduce his stress, so I don't know if that one has gone, or if it is that we're doing better as parents.
DS also struggles to transition, although for some bizarre reason he does well in social situations that are new.
The problem is that all kids, AS or otherwise, are individuals - and the same deficits can be expressed in a myriad of ways (as well as the strengths, right?) This is why having a professional opinion by a specialist (start with the school because it should be paid for, but you can move on to a developmental pediatrician or a pediatric neuropsychologist) can be helpful. For instance, it never in a million years occurred to us that hyperverbal DS had a speech deficit requiring therapy - but he had a deficit in pragmatics. Or that he had a social skills deficit when he was one of the "popular kids" in 1st grade. Those are more obvious ones, but there are all kinds of subtler ways that inflexibility, lack of self awareness, lack of social awareness and a difficulty interpreting your environment can express itself.
I think an example of a NT sibling mimicing behaviors that he or she lives with would be helpful. I believe my DD is NT, but she does mimic some behaviors of my son, and a particulat freind of his (who hasnt been diagnosed yet but is in self contained class and clearly on the spectrum). The difference is, DD, at her young age of 3, responds better to redirection or consequences then her big bro and his freind. My son at 3 would never have done that, he still doesnt at 7.
While watching a sibling copy negative behavior, or just any behavior can be upstetting, maybe you can redirect or teach the sibling a bettter way and they shuld be able to respond appropriately.
If I were in the OPs shoes, Id get an eval.
good luck!
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Dara, mom to my beautiful kids:
J- 8, diagnosed Aspergers and ADHD possible learning disability due to porcessing speed, born with a cleft lip and palate.
M- 5
M-, who would be 6 1/2, my forever angel baby
E- 1 year old!! !