Beyond FRUSTRATED @ life in general & children in partic

Post Reply New Topic

I have two kids - an almost 8 year old daughter and an almost 4 year old son.

I am posting here about my difficulties with my daughter. I am beginning to get VERY worried about her.

A year ago, my son was diagnosed with severe, low functioning autism, and began an intensive ABA program. My entire day goes into driving him around from therapy to therapy, staying on top of issues with the insurance company, juggling around our limited $$$ to ensure that all his treatments get paid for etc. I am burned out, stressed and depressed by the amount of care he needs and the amount of work that goes into all the allied activities that need to be done to ensure that he continues to get that care. Despite this, however, he is my "easier" kid,

That brings me to my daughter. She is very, very, very intelligent and very high energy, She is also insanely curious, wants to know about everyone and everything, and drives me crazy with her constant questions and cross questions. She was a difficult baby and grew into a very difficult toddler and preschooler - mainly because of her high intelligence, and high energy. I am a low energy person and NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer. This clash of personality has resulted in a lot of stress for me, and when my son was born, I was relieved to find that he did not constantly need my attention, wasn't constantly running around seeking my company etc etc etc. In hindsight, I know now that these were warning red flags, but back then, I thanked God that he is nothing like his sister.

I now see some red flags with my daughter - I don't know if these were always there and I just missed it, or if these have developed recently as we have very little time for her. One of the things I notice is that she seems to have very strict preferences in regards to people who are around her. For instance, she can only tolerate a high affect, high energy, and an ever smiling teacher or friend. She is beginning to give me a lot of problems because her current teacher is rather strict and she does not want to go to school, because, according to her, Ms. X does not SMILE ENOUGH !

She also insists on choosing her own extra curricular activities - if one is picked for her, she makes such a fuss that we are forced to pull her out. For instance, we have had to pull her from soccer, from piano, and from singing because she didn't pick them, but we (parents) did ! BUT, she then turned around and learned to play the piano by herself, and sings when she thinks that no one is listening to her ! When confronted, she coolly admits that she LIKES playing the piano and she LIKES singing and playing soccer, but that she was mad because WE picked these out for her, not her - does this make sense ?

She is also mathematically gifted and does math wayyyy above grade level, but put her in a Kumon class and she won't do the work or even come with me to class. Same explanation - I didn't ask to go to Kumon, just buy me advanced math books, and I will do the work when I feel like it.

I have never come across a child who is so self willed and so passive aggressive when it comes to dealing with situations that she is put into, and not picked by her (of her own volition). I am also worried because she is saying that she wants to be home schooled, because the teacher does not smile enough and she has heard that the 3rd grade teacher is strict and not very "smiley", either. Homeschooling would be a total disaster because (a) I won't have the time to do it with my son's extensive needs and (b) she would simply run rings around me, even if I did have the time, and the results would be disastrous.

We just had a huge fight this morning over summer camps. We tried to send her to a video games designing camp over Spring Break, and it was cancelled at the last minute (by the organizers). Well, the camp is being offered again in the Smmer, and I asked if she wanted to go. She threw a hissy fit, saying that since WE wouldn't let her go in the Spring, she doesn't want to go in the Summer ! Yes, we told her a gadzillion times that we didn't cancel the camp, the organizers did, because of low enrollment. She does not believe us, because ALL kids are supposedly interested in designing video games, and it is us who don't like these games, as we are forever limiting her time on them at home. So, her logic is that we were making up stories about why she couldn't go to video games designing camp back then !

I am at my wits' end. Do you see any red flags for any personality problems ? How do I cope with this child and still stay sane and strong for my little boy ? (Oh, she has recently begun accusing me of playing favorites, and loving him 75% more than I love her - her exact words)

Please help ! !! !

Last edited by HisMom on 04 May 2013, 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Maybe she feels ignored because you have to spend so much time with her brother and this is the way she knows how to get your attention. Sometimes kids will go for negative attention when they feel that's all they can get. I have four kids (NT's all, but I have suspicions now about my younger son) and the last three were all 18 months apart. The oldest was 4 when his first sibling was born so he had had plenty of time with me alone and I let him help me out with her and included him in everything I could, so he didn't really act out. Because I had three babies right after each other, I was always busy and always had little ones to look after. It was the little kids that I had trouble with when they would act out. A kid that's good and well behaved doesn't get all that much attention from Mom, because Mom is busy getting another kid down for a nap or doing housework, etc. So, to get the attention away from the other kid they break something, or hit their other sibling, etc. When I finally figured this out, and saw what they were doing I then made it a special point to do something alone with each of them every day. Now, being AS myself (didn't know that then though) I haven't ever really played with them like other parents do, so I would do other things with them. I'd read to them or do crafts with them or take them to the coffee house or a book store or the park or something. I would make them see that I was ignoring the other kids in favor of them. I wouldn't actually BE ignoring them, but the kid who was the focus of my attention thought that I was.

It was difficult to manage, and took a while before I started seeing results but it did work. I'd suggest that you try and find something special with her to do just you and her. Then make sure you keep it up and make sure she knows that you are leaving her brother with his dad to deal with because you would rather spend the time with her right then.

You will probably have to discount my opinions a bit b/c I have a strong-willed "non compliant" child and everyone thinks it is a bigger deal than my husband and I do.

My parents never would have put me in mandatory extracurricular stuff, so my background is not to think that is the usual thing. If I were your daughter, I would feel exactly the same way. I would not want my parents choosing activities for me. I am an introvert and do not like being over-scheduled(Which for an introvert does not look like what an extrovert thinks is over-scheduled) Why do you think it is bad for her to pick her own? I think being able to choose hobby type activities or work at your own pace is not so bad. Does it put her at risk for being "oppositional/defiant? I don't know. In my experience rigidity and special interests trump compliance is unessential matters. No kid is 100% compliant, anyway. But to me, picking her own after school activities is reasonable --but the homeschooling is not reasonable for her to expect.

If you can't manage it, you can't manage it. If you don't think it is the best thing for her, that is your decision, too. She will have to understand that.This is a big decision which to me is not like piano or something, which to me is not so big a deal. Her objection to non-smiling people sounds awfully rigid, so she may have some Aspie in her, I don't know. Girls are much less likely to be successfully diagnosed, anyway.

Also, she sounds like she resents the attention paid to the younger one, as OliveOilMom said, though I know it is impossible to pay equal attention when the younger one has such stronger needs. Maybe you try to carve out some special time with just the two of you, somehow. Maybe your spouse or a relative can stay with your son while you do something your daughter really likes.

Edited to add: The bit about summer camp sounds so like my 7 yr old son. It is a black and white, negative thinking thing. If she could not sdo it when it was scheduled she does not want to do it now. It is a way of wallowing in the initial disappointment. We have not had much success fixing that sort of thing, so no advice other than it could be a spectrum thing, too.

Last edited by ASDMommyASDKid on 05 May 2013, 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Your daughter sounds awesome. Picking your child's extracurricular activities for her makes no sense to me – of course you would ask her what she wanted to do instead, otherwise she may not like it, and, as you've learned, resent you for making choices that should be hers to make.

I suggest that you consider unschooling your child. Unschooling is like homeschooling in that the child does not attend a school outside the home, but it is much less rigid in terms of schedule and curriculum. Parents who unschool give their children much more control over the curriculum and when to study than homeschooled kids. This works very well for children who are very intelligent, curious, and motivated – so it seems that it would be a good fit for your daughter. You can dump a pile of books on kids like this and they teach themselves. You can find more info on it with an Internet search.

I don't know exactly what your daily schedule is, but if your daughter can keep quiet/compliant in the car (perhaps with distractions like books, small electronics, etc.) with you on the way to your son's appointments, then pursue her interests/study in the evenings and on weekends, it might work out for you.

Also – maybe reduce the number of therapy appointments, at least temporarily? Therapy appointments should not be a full-time job.

Well you have been making your daughter's decisions for her for so long. I can see why she is so convinced that you are playing mind games with her. Your daughter needs to feel more that she is in control of things...and her own decision making. If not, it puts her in a situation where it creates severe anxiety and low esteem to the point where she needs to lash out as a result.

I'm with the majority here, why would you sign her up for activities without her consent? Just because she likes to do something at home, doesn't mean she will enjoy doing it in a group setting.

I may look into getting her tested for HFA or Asperger's. I'm not saying that's what it sounds like, but if she's anything like I was when I was younger, it's a possibility.

Well you are admitting that you have an easier time with your son, don't you? Maybe your daughter sees that too and that's why she thinks you consider him "the favorite".

Your daughter sounds as if she fits the label of gifted.

However, have you ever had her assessed for Asperger's or ADHD? Girls with Asperger's often present differently to males. She is at higher risk of autism already having an autistic brother.

She has elements that sound very much like my eldest daughter, with a little of my youngest daughter thrown in. My youngest is HFA and my eldest is pending diagnosis of Asperger's.

As a person who is quietly introverted, your daughter sounds like a nightmare to me.

I would love to handpick the people that I interact with on a day-to-day basis, but guess what? the world doesn't work that way. She needs to learn this now.

If she wants everybody to maintain high energy and constant smiles, this troubles me. It even sounds as if she thinks she can make happen, whether by homeschooling or whatever other methods have occurred to her.

The world does not revolve around her - unfortunately she is seeing the world revolve around her brother - which is not helping the situation.

You are in a difficult situation. If nothing else, might I suggest carving out times to spend with your daughter that are just "her" times?

Beyond that, how about asking her to help you with her brother's exercises? Not all of them, of course, but maybe one or two. Ask if she has anything to add to the situation that could be helpful for her brother.

(By the way, how does she feel about being asked to do tasks?)

Maybe this would help her to feel like a part of his therapy, which could help the whole family come together.

I agree with the 'mom-and-daughter time' comments but I think that's been sufficiently pointed out already

I'd recommend finding out about the giftedness first. If her education can be a bit more tailored to leave out the many repetitions that are inherent to the standard curriculum and involve more interesting topics without burdening her with more work (which most people would feel is unfair, and rightly so) this may already put less of a strain on your home life.

Also, when the cognitive part is sufficiently dealt with, it is much easier to make 'clean' observations regarding her possible ASD/AD(H)Dness. I've seen several complaints by people that are stuck with an ADHD label while they now discovered that addressing their cognitive needs would have fixed the issue.

That said, combinations do happen. I'm one of them, but I'm very happy that I found out about 'what is interesting/fun about being me' before 'what makes me a bit more difficult for others (and hence the world for me)'.

Thank you all so very much for responding to me.

I began to implement a Mom-and-me time for her after reading the suggestions - we agreed that Saturday afternoons would be just the two of us and she is thrilled about it.

She already has a modified curriculum at school because she did test gifted. However, it may be wise to review her curriculum again, so I will talk to the teacher about it. She is supposedly very well behaved at school, so I am confused, because she complains about the teacher not smiling enough or returning her smiles enough, to me, to her father and to anyone who would care to listen to her.

We also discussed her demands that she be homeschooled over the weekend. After a several rounds of "negotiations" (! !), we came to an agreement whereby I will be "homeschooling" her in a foreign language and in religious education, but she will attend public school for everything else. I am also going to supplement her science / microbiology curriculum, as she has recently begun to ask me about the different types of bacteria and which one is responsible for what infection (her latest curiosity being about clostridium tetani) ! I just don't know where to start, though, and need to start small so I don't extinguish myself. I am already just plain exhausted.

I don't know about her being on the spectrum. She had a speech delay when she was 2 and we had her completely assessed at that time, and later again when she was 4 (and was completely verbal and also reading). Both times, she did not show any red flags for being on the spectrum. She is also very social and very empathetic - has a large number of high affect, high energy friends !

But I will keep this alert on the back of my mind and see if she is any different after these changes (more one-on-one time, more interesting things to learn at home etc)

BTW, Beth mentioned involving her in her brother's therapy. She is usually more than happy to help out, but he plays rough with her and she flees from him, after a while. I don't want to force her to continue being involved once she has had enough / been smacked / had her hair pulled etc. However, peer interaction is one of his goals, and although she is technically not a peer (being 4 years older than he is), she is the only kid that we do have around, so we will continue trying. If it does not work out, I am going to try to involve her in other ways, even if not directly interacting with him.

I pray this all really works out. I am just tired and drained with my son's needs. The last thing I need is ongoing problems with my daughter, too.

Last edited by HisMom on 13 May 2013, 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think it is wise to keep an eye on it. The initial speech delay, the fact that your son is autistic, and the fact that she seems to have very strong preferences for things and unusual special interests are possible indicators.You can be an extrovert and still have aspergers. Girls present differently than boys anyway and tend to show more empathy and social skills. That is why it is harder for girls to get diagnosed. If she is very high functioning she may have friends but then struggle with navigating the complicated girl dynamics of friendship, later. Once puberty starts to hit and a little before, these dynamics become much more complicated.

Fourth grade, as I recall was where that started, but I can't be sure of that. Your memory of that age might be better than mine. Their groups tend to be more cliquish and they start excluding each other for odd, confusing reasons. I think her interest in microbiology is pretty cool.

It is good that her behavior in school is good and she is taking her complaints about smiling to you, instead of to them. It is not usual for kids to do that.

I think your plan is sound. And do keep considering the possibility of high functioning ASD. Or that she has certain ASD traits without enough to be diagnosed as ASD. The inability to see that not everyone would like what she likes (the spring break / summer camp thing) is the comment that really sticks out for me there; sounds like a theory of mind issue.

Do keep involving her in the scheduling decisions. I have to say, your schedule and expectations would have exhausted me and would exhaust either of my kids. While it can be said that my son is high energy, he needs to be in control of what he is doing and when. He can't run from scheduled activity to scheduled activity without breaking down. He needs to breathe and follow his own mind, moods, and changes in interests. If there is anything creative in your daughter, she will have that need, too. You can't schedule creativity; it happens when it happens. My son will sit impatiently through activities until he has that free time to write down his story outline or finally mock up the new game he has in head, and all the scheduled learning time may as well have not existed because all he does is think about his creative idea. So, give some consideration as to if something like that could be at play. It took a while to find the right balance with my son, of scheduled v. unscheduled, because if too much is unscheduled he'll just play computer games and end up addicted to that. Just remember that all these decisions should be driven by what your unique child wants and needs, and not some perception of what she "should" be learning and doing to "get ahead." I'm not much of one for following the race to nowhere (there is a documentary by that name); it just burns out kids and doesn't teach them how to really think for themselves.

Also, overall, once you get past the toddler stage (I know it was reversed there for you, but commonly little boys are more energetic), girls are much difficult to raise, in my experience, and based on conversations with other parents. There is a push-pull between mothers and daughters that does not exist between mothers and sons. You have to be patient with it, reminding yourself that it is a normal part of a girl trying to establish her own identity separate from her mother. But, jeez, it can drive one nuts! Best of luck there, I know first hand how that one goes!

Yes it makes perfect sense, with her intelligence she probably feels she can rationalize which extra-curricular activities she would like to do, and feels insulted if she's 'forced' to do an extra-curricular activity she may have no interest in. I guess my take on this is would it hurt to let her choose extra-curricular activities?

For instance you could say she needs to join one, and then allow her the option to decide which one....I mean I am sure all extra-curricular activities have some kind of benefit, so what would be the harm in letting her choose the one. I mean she might even feel like she already has to go to school, follow whatever rules/guidelines/structure there is at home and then to top it all off she isn't even allowed to choose her own extra-curricular activity...she may very well just want a little bit of say in how she spends her day.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but is she perhaps picking up on that she's just a child needing dealt with...so you can remain strong and sane for 'your' little boy? I mean isn't she your little girl to or just a random child needing dealt with? I mean with how you just worded that it kind of makes sense she might feel that way.

Key is you should be trying to stay strong and sane for both of your children, not cope with one so you can remain strong and sane for the other. Also keep in mind if one feels they are being treated as the 'favorite' they might become upset about that because they want to get along well with their sibling...but their sibling resents them for being treated as the favorite.

You did say she asks a lot of questions and wants to know everything and it gets to be overwhelming....have you ever tried just telling her you don't know the answer if its something you don't really get. I mean maybe she just doesn't understand that not everyone has the same capacity for curiousity and wanting to know about everything as she does......I bet I probably talked peoples ears off all the time as a child simply because I had no concept that they might not understand what I am even talking about, or simply might not be intrested at that time. I mean it doesn't sound like she is trying to spite you or anything, seems like shes just oblivious to a lot of things people take for granted. It's kind of how I am though I was more the 'favorite' and dealt with some resentment from my siblings due to it....we've gotten over that long since then and don't blame each other over our mom potentially being unfair.

I would say it's highly likely that the daughter has Aspergers.

As stated before, girls do seem to demonstrate symptoms differently than boys (According to my AS girlfriend, she seems to have noticed this herself) so the diagnosis might be a little bit more difficult.

That said, I don't think it's an attention issue, like everyone else has been saying. I think it's more of a scheduling issue - easily relate-able to the routine aspect of Aspergers/Autism. From what I'm seeing, she can sense that there's something in that environment that doesn't seem to mesh well with her, be it the teacher's attitude or the format of the work given (This CAN be an issue - my first meltdown I can remember was related to it, and issues with it continue through high school) that is causing large amounts of discomfort. She likely knows that something is wrong, but doesn't entirely know how to how to say it - with the singing and piano club issues, it's not so much the fact that you picked it - it's that the schedule of it conflicted with her own, or more likely the teachers themselves caused her discomfort, therefore she attempted to leave.

What kind of fuss did she make? Did she attempt to request leaving calmly before the fuss occurred? It's likely she realized that the calmer method wasn't working - so she moved onto a more "aggressive" method - because she generally felt uncomfortable within those activities, or they conflicted with her routine.

Well if you think your daughter is having problems, perhaps getting her help would be wise....I mean just keep in mind it's not her decision to have ongoing problems she didn't choose to be born, I guess I just worry that unintentionally you might take it out on her that you don't particularly 'need' a daughter with ongoing problems.

I mean its possible that is exactly what you have, and ignoring the problems wishing they would go away wont help nor would blaming her for having them. If you need outside help certainly get it........but your lack of needing ongoing problems with your daughter isn't nessisarily going to prevent them or make them disappear.

I understand feeling frusterated and drained, which is why sometimes outside help is a good idea but it is still your responsibility to ensure your daughters physical and mental well-being as best as you can as well even if she is the more troublesome of the two. Not sure you could fit it in your scedule but have you thought of maybe seeing a therapist, maybe they could help you with finding ways to cope a little better and not be so overwhelmed.

I àm going to sound very stupid, but what is the difference between high functioning autism and low functioning autism (aside from lack of language, aggression issues etc) ? I ask this very seriously because I am completely and utterly confused. Also, is there a difference between HFA & Aspergers ? Since she had a speech delay (did not really start talking until age 30 months), she probably does not have Aspergers because Aspies, I was told, don't have language delays ?

Also, what exactly separates a NT from a HFA ?

Please help me understand - I am getting very worried about my daughter now !