Hard to Love?

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Hi all. I am new the the forum.
My 11 year old has been diagnosed with ADHD since Kindergarten, on various meds since then, and only recently, informally tagged as PDD and possibly Asperger's. My wife and I roll with these different labels, not bothered by them as much as by the actual behavior we have to deal with and the steps we need to take to address them.
I could go into detail about his interactions with his siblings, his classmates, and us, but I'd like first to focus on my own reaction to his behaviors and attitudes.
I dislike him.
I have gotten to the point where I simply cannot tolerate his rudeness to everyone, his irresponsible attitude where everyone is at fault but him, and his complete inability to do anything that's not his cup of tea.
I find my own child unpleasant.
I find my own feelings abhorrent.
Am I a lousy parent because I feel this way? Because it sure seems to me.

Well, actually knowing the behaviors would help because you are probably feeling that way because you are frustrated and overwhelmed. We all get frustrated at one point or another. You may be overwhelmed and frustrated, which is not the same thing as feeling actual dislike. (Not that I am trying to tell you what your feelings are--just that sometimes feelings can get confusing) I don't know if you have access to respite care or if you can take a break somehow, so you can clear your head.

I think its very brave of you to admit those feelings. I strugged with how I feel about my own son. he is very difficult and there are days I don't enjoy him, there are days I don't like his behavior, and many days where I resent his presence. it is difficult to own up to those feelings about our own children, and even more difficult to air them. NOW, I didn't say I don't love him, casue I DO love him! it is a mixed bag to love a child while you resent or dislike most of their behavior.

There is so much negative behavior, that I TRY to focus on anything positive and stick with that.

welcome and good luck!

Have you ever asked yourself how does your son feel?AS people are not good at social interactions,and you maybe misinterpret his behavior with rudeness.Instead of talking bad about him,try to understand what causes him to behave that way.

There are multiple different ways to look at this, and I can't say which apply, so I'll just throw them all out there.

One: as my mother once told me, we don't pick our relations, and sometimes we have to love people we would not normally even like. She said that because my father and I had a hard time with each other, although we did eventually find a basis to connect. Basically, you accept what is and then look for that one little thing that you really can share.

Two: sometimes with an ASD child the (what I consider) superficial things overrun your perspective of the person. We grow up expecting certain things from "good" people and certain things from "bad" people, with our instincts being to like the former and be turned off by the later. But many of the things that can drive a parent nuts about an ASD child aren't really important. The stimming can be annoying to us, but you keep reminding yourself that it calms your child you learn not to see it. The rudeness isn't meant to be rudeness; it is a basic misunderstanding of the purpose of it all and also not realizing how one comes across. Some very interesting discussions with my son over the years on that topic. And there are more that fall into that category; basically, you change your perspective until you find a viewpoint that allows you to accept your child the way he is. Much as we do with some of our spouse's annoying behaviors: for example, my husband leaves cabinet doors open, and now I see them a little trail showing me where he's been, kind of like getting to spy on his activity I don't directly see.

Three: there is a huge part of ourselves that wants our children to be and have everything we wanted for ourselves and didn't quite make it to. With an ASD child, through no fault of their own, those dreams aren't going to be realized. This child is not a mini-you, and he doesn't like what you like and he doesn't fit in with the social circle you want to be in. My son stopped playing organized sports of any type when he was 11 and all the sudden I saw a void in my social life, because spending time with other parents on the team simply happens organically. Feeling the loss of these sorts of things is normal, and you have to let yourself feel them. In a way, you mourn the life you saw for yourself as a parent, because the one you got looks quite different. And then you move on, because it was never your child's job to fulfill your dreams. But recognizing that you have those feelings is essential to moving beyond them.

Four: oh, dang, I'm forgetting what my fourth was.

What are your son's gifts? My son is funny. And he challenges me to see the world in a different way. Despite all his quirks and how he can forget to use any manners, it seems like people like him. All of these are good things to focus on in difficult times.

He has also taught me to care a whole lot less what other people think. I used to care, even when I said I didn't. Well, I don't have much room for that in my life anymore. I've let go of some things that really were never as important as my head had made them out to be.

You are at a crossroads and need to find your way to the other side. Spend a lot of time thinking long and hard about what it is about YOU that has a difficult time with your son, so that you drop all the non-essential stuff and stayed focused with him on the key things he needs to learn, like how to accept his share of responsibility (most likely he isn't being irresponsible with that attitude, he is being defensive, because he doesn't know how to connect the dots in situations properly. You have to go back through each one with a fine tooth comb doing a situational autopsy). Talking it all out in places like this can help you get there; some of the comments you'll get may be harsh, but you'll also start to get some valuable insights into your son's head.

Good luck.

There's a joke that god made kids cute so we wouldn't kill them.

Lotta truth in that, even grocery bags tell you to keep away from children.

I think most of us struggle with some version of this - when we were first looking for help, what I wanted most was for someone to get ME to STOP YELLING. I could not fathom another way to be, and yet I wanted nothing more than to be a different mother to my son.

I've found that reframing how I think about my son has been what I needed to change my behavior. I could make a list just like the one you are avoiding (and good for you for recognizing that you shouldn't be posting such lists!)

The thing that changed everything for me was the day I sat in on my son's pragmatic speech assessment. I suddenly realized that he was understanding only about 70% of every interaction in either direction. It was intensely painful to discover that I had been yelling at my son for things he simply could not see anymore than if he was blind!

Speaking of blindness, I am often struck by the similarity between the stories of kids on the autism spectrum and the early stories about Helen Keller. She would tantrum, and throw things, and be rude - she often purposely grabbed people's plates and threw them on the floor. For years, her problem was that everybody excused her behavior because of her disability.

The thing is, she has the same disability our kids do: a communication disorder. If you look at some of the "rudeness" through that frame, it becomes easier to take. Nobody blamed Helen Keller for her frustration; she didn't have the tools to understand. Kids on the spectrum are the same - though they have working eyes and ears, there is still a disconnect between what happens outside of them and what they process inside. The only real difference is that kids on the spectrum don't appear to be disabled.

Anne Sullivan's methods for treating Helen Keller are very similar to the strategies I've seen on this forum that are successful. Her autobiography is online and kind of worth looking at.

As usual, momsparky pretty much summed up what I was thinking. It is hard to feel warm fuzzy feelings towards someone who acts as you describe and believe me, I know EXACTLY the type of behavior you are talking about as I think many others here do. I would like to offer you the hope that your child can learn not to be rude all the time, can learn to take responsibility for his actions and can learn to do somethings outside of his comfort zone. The thing is, he needs to be taught these skills in a very explicit, focused and supportive manner. He is not going to just "get" them (well he might but probably only after he has left your house). The comparison to Helen Keller is a good one. I also highly recommend reading Dr. Ross Greene's books, "The Explosive Child" and "Lost at School". He also has a website:
www.livesinthebalance.com. If your son is not involved in a social skills class, I highly recommend it and any other therapy you can afford that will help him learn how his actions and words make other people feel. I highly doubt that he WANTS to make people not like him but he probably either A) isn't aware of how his behavior affects other people and/or B) he doesn't know any other way to act.
I would also like to offer you the hope that you can learn to overlook some of the rudeness and irresponsibility and accept some amount of rigidity. You can learn how to help him interact with others in a more positive way. It does really take looking at the child and the whole situation through a new set of lenses but there really is a lot of good information out there these days.

The fact that you're questioning yourself in an open forum is enough for me to think you're nothing less than a caring parent.. and an honest one. Your feelings are normal. Your environment is toxic. It's hard to pretend our children are the joys in our eyes when their actions feel so overwhelming at times.. and continual. I'd like to believe this is just a phase in his life - he'll outgrow it. He may not have that self-awareness - the ability to understand how others view him. That may be a good lesson for you to focus on.

It is important to remember that autistic children grow, too. Since we are tempted to compare them to other kids or the behavior we expect or something else, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that - whatever trajectory or time frame they are on - they do grow and learn. Sometimes it's two steps forwards and one back, but in DS's case, he has definitely developed more self-control and better skills that had nothing to do with anything but him. (Not to say all the interventions did nothing - we just noticed that last year, many of the things he was white-knuckling through and using every too we gave him to master come fairly easily this year.) Sometimes it helps to look backward and remind yourself of how far you've come.

I do know that there are some parents dealing with very young children whose development is regressing, and for those of you who are struggling with that, I am sorry if the above is not inclusive enough.

I wanted to add that sometimes the behavior gets worse before it gets better because they are struggling with new skills, and new stressors. Sometimes you have to find the magic thing to ease up on (temporarily) to get them through. Sometimes there is a limit to what they can take. Sometimes you don't figure it out, but it seems to fix on its own. Some days are good and some are horrible beyond belief.

Also, if you are NT, things may bother you for different reasons. Sometimes my son says rude things (by accident) and I think they are funny. I don't condone it or encourage it, and I always correct him, but I am not "offended." I just think to myself that he is saying what he thinks, and really shouldn't have. I think it seems cute because most of the time what he says isn't really bad, and I think that in some ways I wish I was less socialized as a child and could have been honest like that, too. I always forget that for NTs (and probably some Aspies too) it makes them feel like bad parents, out in public, and they worry about public censure more than I do. Also, parents sometimes take it like it is smart-mouthing, and because of my own quirks it never occurred to think of it as a form of disrespect.

For example, when my son was little and we got him a present he did not like, he would tell us that. Then it evolved to, "This was not what I expected." Now he will say, "No, thank you. I don't want this." I think they emphasized, "No, thank you," too much in speech without explaining it is not appropriate for all occasions. So, now I am trying to teach him when to accept something graciously, with a thank you,and why that better than "No, thank you," and a rejection in some cases.

Luckily (and maybe by design) we don't have too many public gift openings, so I don't let it worry me too much unless he says it to a child at school who is passing out stuff at a party, which was when I first heard him do this. Some of this just takes time, and it does not mean your child is bad, that you are bad, or even that your child is not trying to understand these alien and arbitrary to him) rules. It is not personal. It is hard for your child to do.

You say that you 'roll with the labels' which is fine but they are more than just labels, they are explanations for your sons behaviour. I would recommend doing some reading and trying to understand a little of why he does some of things he does, it makes a huge difference. Good Luck!

This post really struck a cord with me as I've recently been in the very same situation. My daughter who is 9yrs has always been the naughty, disrespectful & rude child out of the 3 of them and we have constant battles about anything and everything with her. Bedtime is a nightmare (& still is). I got to the point about 2months ago where I decided that I really needed to do something about it for the whole families sanity, there was always a 'negative' attitude in the air at home. I had suspected some ASD traits in her but primarily she was just our 'naughty' child. The feelings my DH and I seemed to have towards her became negative and I was really worried how we were affecting her (& how it was affecting us), whatever we said or did never made a patch of difference to her behavior. I made the first step by emailing a local community nurse who came out to discuss my issues, it was really hard to press the 'send' button on my email as this was admitting that we may have a problem!! ! She came and i talked for almost 2hrs and she asked me if I liked my daughter, and sadly at that point I had to say no. It was heartbreaking, but I had got to the point where I rarely showed any affection towards her (& vice versa), although she is not overly affectionate anyway. This was all quite a breakthrough and having done lots of reading on the internet I am quite convinced she has Aspergers and this in itself has allowed me to take a step back and look at how I treat her. I feel so much better in myself and she reacts far better to me now and I see her in a different light. Don't get me wrong, we haven't modified any of her behavior-she still doesn't take anything on board and she still drives me insane at times but I feel like I've gotten over a hurdle. My DH hasn't quite got there yet, he still gets cross with her at times and believe me its quite hard not to!! !!

What I am saying is although its really hard to 'bite your tongue' at times and if your child is reasonably intelligent its very difficult to understand why they don't get 'simple' things when explained, but it is possible to educate yourself on certain behaviors and change your reactions to them. Believe me you will feel 100% better about yourself and your child. I still wonder sometimes if she is just taking the p*#% at times…... We are awaiting an appointment in August with a psychologist to hopefully get some kind of diagnosis. Good luck.

What helps me in this regard is to remember that my kids have a neurologically-based disability. I try to remind myself that however tough this is for me, it is probably even tougher for them. Do they sometimes have willfully rude and disobedient behavior? Of course...they are kids. BUT, I try to catch myself and look for reasons and explanations that do not immediately include descriptions of them as rude and disobedient.

My son, for instance, is very literal in his language and sometimes that makes him look like a smart a$$. For example, one time I asked him a question and he didn't answer. I asked him again. He didn't answer. I asked him again. He didn't answer. I got frustrated and said "Are you going to answer me, or are you just going to sit there?" To which he replied "I am just going to sit here." That response would have gotten me smacked as a child. However, I asked him a question. A question that he interpreted as a list of two choices. He simply selected the choice that matched his intentions and told me his choice. There was nothing smart a$$y about it. I have had to learn to be very careful in my word choices with him, because he will interpret what I have said very literally.

He also has the issue (as does my daughter) of not distinguishing between socially appropriate ways to talk to adults vs peers. This makes both of them appear rude on a regular basis. But the truth is, they can't help it. They don't pick up on the social rules the way typpies do. So like someone said (I think maybe Zette?) everything...EVERYTHING...needs to be broken down and taught explicitly because I do wholeheartedly believe their "implicit learning switch" was locked in the "off" position at birth.

Are you a bad parent? I suspect not. A bad parent would never even question, nor feel bad about, their feelings. It sounds to me like you are most likely a good parent who's at their wits end.

I'm going to ask a sensitive question, and please understand I mean no offense...is it possible that you, yourself, are not typically wired? I ask because realizing this in myself has helped me immensely in trying to learn effective ways of coping with parenting my kids. Mind you...I had NO IDEA that I was a shadow Aspie and had ADD before my kids. But over time I started to recognize that I'm not NT.

Understanding my own quirks and idiosyncrasies has helped me in many ways. For one, I have a better understanding of where our neurologies line up and where they clash. For another, I am more aware of my own weaknesses, so it helps me identify where, perhaps, the problem might be me and not them. It has also helped me find ways to connect with them, even when I feel really irritated. For example, with my son, I remember being in middle school and coming to the conclusion that I must not be smart, even though I felt like I was smart. I don't know if that makes sense. But in middle school I started looking around me and realizing my wheels were spinning a lot faster than everyone else's and it seemed like I was not getting anywhere. So, I concluded that I had been wrong all along: I actually was NOT smart. Since then I have come to realize that I really AM smart. I just had unrecognized ADD. The way this helps me is because when I start feeling really frustrated with him because he did not turn in the paper that we spent two days working on, I remember how it felt to be in middle school. I remember how hard it was. And I remember that nothing that happened to me was due to lack of trying on my part, even though I am sure it looked that way to everyone else. I often feel like I am a smart person trapped in a disorganized person's brain. It is frustrating. When I realize this is probably how my son feels, too, it helps soften my frustration with him.

And then sometimes you have to just say it out loud, and then you are able to deal with it because it's out there. I hope that happens for you.

You folks are all wonderfully supportive and helpful, and I thank you for taking the time to reply to my thread.
There is too much here for me to reply to everyone individually, but I wanted to touch on some points.
"good parent at wits' end" -- sounds about right, but the tricky bit about wits' end is that as one nears it, principles and firmly held beliefs begin to fray. I swore once I would never hit my kids, but in one of the darkest moments in our relationship, hitting began to creep in as the only way I could cut through the nonstop litany of abuse coming from his mouth. I've backed away from that these days, which I feel is good, but a lot of the time it just seems like there is no word that will get through to him..and the hand is the only way to be heard.

Am I atypical? Not on the spectrum. I suffer from depression but I am in therapy. Not bipolar or manic or any of the others, just prone to taking it all too hard. This certainly does play in to the scenario with my son, but the opposite of how you'd think. When things get crushingly tough, I start questioning and doubting, as I do in this thread, and I am likely to be less assertive, and will fall silent. This is where my supposedly neuroTypical wife comes in, and she's got no problem yelling more readily ("It's the only way he listens!") or even hitting him if it comes to it.

There is a clear distinction between rudeness consisting of inappropriate comments vs. rudeness consisting of hurtful comments. When my son comments on how disgusting something tastes, I calmly remind him that he should phrase it in a way that is not going to offend someone. When he repeatedly orders his brother to shut up because he is eating too loud, still I can somewhat calmly talk to him about how if the noise is bothering him, he can go to the other room. But when it comes to getting him to bed, for instance, and he refuses to turn off the computer, insists that my and and I have no right to tell him what to do or to touch him, the logic and calm starts to melt away and anger holds sway. There is always a line beyond which I find it impossible to maintain calm and my son crosses it multiple times daily.

And I KNOW it's not done on purpose, and I KNOW there are things he can't control... but where does that put me as a parent? Am I supposed to just look on and make excuses for him? No, I need to be involved in guiding, but when he actively and rudely fights the guidance, it all goes south.

Have you tried giving yourself time outs? I have done this so many times. There is a version of time outs that are for calming not punishing. I do this when I don't want to give him a time out because it is not appropriate to punish (I am just frustrated) or I think it will backfire (create worse behavior). It is sort of a form of something called evacuation also (though I did not know this when I started doing it) which sometimes is appropriate when the child is doing something for attention and will behave to get you back. I don't know if it works at 11.

If nothing else it is good when you need to calm and regroup.