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CWA
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30 Sep 2013, 8:09 am

Einsteinologist wrote:
Without tearing apart everything said in this thread as a response to many issues in terms of mal-education, I will state my gut reaction: perhaps PE is not in the cards for that student, right now. You schools make me sick - literally!


I completely agree with this to be honest. I'm a firm believer than not every class is meant for every student, not limited just to PE.

Unfortunatley that is not how our system works.

She DOES have an excape clause HOWEVER, she is really bad about knowning when she needs to escape and still has a desire to ask permission to leave, but by the time she gets there it is too late. Also there have been times that not all the staff has known she has an escape clause so in that case the IEP wasn't followed.

She had a very very violent episode this weekend that flat out has me worried for her. It was really bad, the worst I've ever seen from her. She melted down for over two hours at a science museum. During this time she kicked, hit, and bit me while shrieking and screaming (Age appropriate) obscenities. It. Was. Horrid. We obviously left, slowly, which was hard because she is more than half my size now (did I mention that I'm literally a midget? I hate the term, but I didn't have enough growth hormone when I was a kid and I'm horribly small- she isn't). If she has one like THAT at school we're all screwed. They'll kick her out, I'm certain.

The principal agreed to just the one suspension and after this they are working on something more "punishing". It's just at the time, they weren't sure what that would be so they told her they were suspending her and wanted to carry through with it.



momsparky
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30 Sep 2013, 8:27 am

Has the school done a behavioral assessment? Sounds like there needs to be some detective work to figure out what is causing these outbursts. I'm no doctor - but from what you describe, one thing I'd want to look at is sensory issues with noise (have you tried the little foam earplugs?) Both PE and Science Museums tend to be incredibly noisy places...does that hold true in other noisy situations? (DS can tolerate expected noise (loud music) but not random noise (balloons popping.)

We were in the same boat until 4th grade, when we finally got appropriate help (and let me tell you, having a violent 4th grader with no end in sight is scary.) They had us chart a Functional Behavioral Assessment, which helped us understand WHY our son was behaving the way he was, and then we were able to figure out what interventions he needed. Our big breakthrough was that DS doesn't tolerate changes in routine, so if there is any change we make sure to prep him carefully (many kids who are violent are also rigid.) The key is figuring out what it is that she's trying to communicate, so you can do two things: help her get what she needs, and teach her to communicate that need more appropriately and effectively. (Bad use/framing of FBA: to "make" her behave. This shouldn't be the goal.)

Here is a good overview of this tool: http://www.education.com/reference/arti ... ehavioral/



CWA
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30 Sep 2013, 10:03 am

momsparky wrote:
Has the school done a behavioral assessment? Sounds like there needs to be some detective work to figure out what is causing these outbursts. I'm no doctor - but from what you describe, one thing I'd want to look at is sensory issues with noise (have you tried the little foam earplugs?) Both PE and Science Museums tend to be incredibly noisy places...does that hold true in other noisy situations? (DS can tolerate expected noise (loud music) but not random noise (balloons popping.)

We were in the same boat until 4th grade, when we finally got appropriate help (and let me tell you, having a violent 4th grader with no end in sight is scary.) They had us chart a Functional Behavioral Assessment, which helped us understand WHY our son was behaving the way he was, and then we were able to figure out what interventions he needed. Our big breakthrough was that DS doesn't tolerate changes in routine, so if there is any change we make sure to prep him carefully (many kids who are violent are also rigid.) The key is figuring out what it is that she's trying to communicate, so you can do two things: help her get what she needs, and teach her to communicate that need more appropriately and effectively. (Bad use/framing of FBA: to "make" her behave. This shouldn't be the goal.)

Here is a good overview of this tool: http://www.education.com/reference/arti ... ehavioral/


It holds true in some other noisy situations, but not always. I think it depends a lot on other stressors as well. For example I ahve taken her to science museums many other times with few or no issues and certainly no epic meltdowns. IT seems being in close proximity with other people also plays a role. The last meltdown even approaching this level (That I was present for) was about 8 -9 months ago at a rally at the school. It was not only loud, but dense with people. The exhibit was not dense with people, but there was a child on either side of her, so it may as well have been. I did get her away from people, but it didn't seem to help once she got started with the meltdown. We have tried the foam plugs but it seems as if the sensation of the foam in her ear also really bugs her.



ASDMommyASDKid
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30 Sep 2013, 11:08 am

I am going to chime in with the fact that there are things that can be tolerated and even enjoyed when their brains are more at peace. When we have had a rough day or two or three things that are normally fun (b/c they are capable of coping with the stressful parts better) can be really bad. So when your kid is wrapped up in a stressful cycle I find the best thing is to provided a more calm atmosphere. We stay home more and do things that are comfortable (usually special interest-related) away from too many people and stressful environments. We had a heck of a time last quarter of last school year, and we spent most weekends just trying to decompress him. Anytime we were forced by circumstances to have a more involved weekend : 9 times out of 10 it was a real disaster.



momsparky
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30 Sep 2013, 2:22 pm

CWA wrote:
IT seems being in close proximity with other people also plays a role. The last meltdown even approaching this level (That I was present for) was about 8 -9 months ago at a rally at the school. It was not only loud, but dense with people. The exhibit was not dense with people, but there was a child on either side of her, so it may as well have been. I did get her away from people, but it didn't seem to help once she got started with the meltdown.


DS also has a deficit in proprioperception, or your awareness of where your own body is in space (which played a role in some aggressive behavior in PE - multiple problems there including this, noise, bullying, etc.) This meant he was constantly bumping into people and didn't know why. The unfortunate truth is that, while at first kids were OK with the clumsiness, eventually they learned he would react if they bumped into him or touched him - so, eventually he learned to overreact to the slightest touch, because he couldn't tell the difference between a kid deliberately shoving him so they could laugh at him or him tripping over his own feet and bumping into an innocent person. My son's deficit isn't enough for him to get therapy, but the therapist could definitely see it (he can compensate - but it takes a lot of concentration for him to do so - which contribute to anxiety/aggression.)

I can see where those two situations could set this one off as well. The key is to either chart or remember situations where there's been a meltdown and find the things that are congruent that make sense to you.

I do agree that adaptive PE is probably called for, at least for the time being. DS is doing well in regular PE in Middle School, but it took a significant amount of time before he was comfortable.



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01 Oct 2013, 7:46 pm

momsparky wrote:

DS also has a deficit in proprioperception, or your awareness of where your own body is in space (which played a role in some aggressive behavior


My son's proprioceptive issues were much worse when he was younger, and it appeared he was aggressive, but the truth was, he could not grade his movements. He could not tell the difference between "tagging" someone and outright forcefully slapping them. He would also try to hug kids or get close to them and bowl them over.

If you look, you still see evidence of difficulties grading. He presses so hard on his pencil that it looks like he is trying to dig a hole in his paper.


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hanyo
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04 Oct 2013, 5:39 am

CWA wrote:
dd6 apparently got aggitated during gym class yesterday and punched her teacher :( so they suspended her for a day. I pointed out that this is hardly a punishment and likely more of a reinforcement for her since she would rather stay home than go to school. Obviously we are doing what we can to make her day not fun (not miserable, just not fun). No electronicx, no tv. We won't tell her no books, that just isn't right.

She tends to lash out when she is angry. Any advice on how to curb this behavior?


I had a situation in eighth grade where I got suspended for 3 days for kicking a teacher. She made me stand in the hall all day and right before the end wanted me back in the classroom. I refused and she tried to drag me back in and ended up kicked. As far as I was concerned the suspension was a reward. I hated school so much.

For gym in sixth grade it was my last class of the day so I just left and walked home. I never got in trouble for it either.