Advice needed: son reports his weekends with me to mom

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My son's mommy and my ex mother in law question my son when he comes back from visits with me. It's little things like not enough reading, too much tv, not enough outside time, and teeth brushing. Love, care, kindness, I'm 100 percent focused on him, we get along amazingly well, everything is good....yet my son has been trained to report these little things to his mom and grandma....

They're using him to control how I do things when he's with me. There's something about this that isn't right, and I can't put my finger on it.

I see him for two nights every two weeks. Some night we forget to brush our teeth, every morning we watch cartoons together.....he goes home, reports it, and I don't know what that does, but.......I'm so frustrated......

Anyone have any thoughts, advice, perspective?

Thank you in advance, I'm struggling with this.....

Right in front of me he says to his grandma (my ex mother in law) "I brushed my teeth once this weekend" to which the grandma had him go in and brush his teeth. And then she says jokingly, "he tells us EVERYTHING....."(I was at her house dropping him off) Makes me look like an irresponsible as*hole, and s**ts on the tiny sliver of control I've managed to hold onto.....

They're cataloging data to use against you. Count on it.

Methinks 90% of all joint custody arrangements play this silly game.
I know I as a child was quizzed back and forth after visits.
Now that you understand everything you say and do will be reported back
use that to your advantage. Keep in mind to they are most likely documenting
every instance of forgotten brushed teeth and the like to use against you
some day.

I dot know how old your child is ... but for yr 11 yr old I explained a few things.

That 1) you mother and I love you very much 2) we are no longer friends but we are still both your parents. 3) that you never have to answer questions that I ask about your mom or her newest BF or that you have to answer about me and my newest GF. 4) you have the right to privacy. 5) and if she asks you what we did you say "He said you would ask this .. and I am to tell you that I love you.

sometimes Mom's (and Dad's) are afraid that maybe that child will love them more. I simply tell my child that whenever his mom ask his questions he doesn't want to talk about simply tell her you love her.

As for what I do and how I raise my child. I have a court order that says I get my kids custody 2 weekends per month. What I do with that time is my own business and has nothing to do with her or her mom.

She chose you to be the father to her kids and you chose her to be the mother of your kids ... now you both have to live with that mistake.

Forgetting to brush your teeth is rather minor in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps you could point that out to ex MIL, with a shrug. If you're happy and know you're doing your best with your kid, why should it bother you that he tells his mom everything? You've got nothing to hide or be ashamed of.

I don't do the questioning back. The worst would be like "does mommy let you eat sugar cereal?" But I don't have him report to me. I ask him about school and his friends. When my ex shares info with me i give her my opinion in a political manner.

I guess I not worried about anything being used against me....I don't want to be all suspicious and untrusting. I don't think this about that kind of thing either. it's just about control....a controlling mother in law, a controlling mommy....people who think they have good intentions but can't see the forest through the trees...


I just don't like it, and I feel like it's wrong, and it hurts my kid, and I don't know how I really feel about it..... it might just tie into a bigger feeling of no control of my own, and I'm afraid my kid is gonna not respect me, or not like me, or something.....it's cloudy in my head.

Maybe kinda what saxifraga says, know it's happening, and use it to your advantage. My mom says I should make it so he gives perfect reports and they can't say anything....maybe this is the way to go, play the game.....

I feel like I'm in a corner....

RollingPandaArt, my son is 6, I have told him before that he doesn't have to tell his grandma everything. let me think about what you said....I know my mother in law is one of these who gets depressed if she's not the center of attention and she's a control freak. Maybe this is all just her way of staying relevent?

singularity -- Exactly, I should feel bad, I'm a pretty damn good father to this kid, it's the one thing in life that I think I do well. But yet, I feel like I'm still under my ex's thumb, and moreso under my ex mother in law's thumb. that's the killer in this: Mommy lives with grandma, and I tons of contact with each. I can't put my finger on who does what.....

Mommy and mother in law got in a argument (not violent, no cussing) at my son's soccer game about his attitude on the field. Right in front of all the parents.....I say stop talking about it, they listen. My son walks off the field in a sad Charlie Brown walk, and I go out there and comfort him, say "it's no big deal, you did well.......did you have fun?"

Big sighs here.....

Forgetting to brush teeth sometimes is nothing that can be used against you to any degree. As long as you feed him appropriate food at reasonable mealtimes (no potato chips and hot dogs for breakfast or ice cream for supper) and he gets at least one bath while he's there, he goes to bed before 11 or 12 at night, he's not left alone, you don't drink, do drugs, leave drugs or booze lying around, bring women (or men - hey it's 2013) over to spend the night while he's there, don't leave him alone in the house while you go somewhere other than to take out the garbage, don't let him watch something that would be considered too mature or too scary for him, and reasonably prevent any injury from accident that is caused by carelessness or neglect rather than just a garden variety accident, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

If I were you I'd take such excellent care of him and have such an enjoyable time together that you can drive home with a very self satisfied smile and a very fervent hope that they ask him about every detail of the visit because there is no fear of them finding anything they can use against you.

Unless he has a special need or an illness you most likely won't be held to Mary Poppins standards when it's your visit together. If he never brushed his teeth with you then over time when a pattern could be shown that you never had him brush, then maybe they could try and pay their lawyer extra to do something about it but I'd think the most you would get from the judge would be an order to brush his teeth during your visit - if he didn't throw it out of court, that is.

That's not the kind of thing they look for to cut visitation. Well, it's the kind of thing that a custodial parent would look for but not a lawyer or judge.

I would just keep a checklist and go over it with him while you are there, of the things you need to do, - teeth, bath, brush hair, bed time by 11, three meals - and treat that like a game with him. Get stickers or something for each of the things and let him put one by the task. I would actually be a s**t enough to send the completed checklist home with him so his mother could see it though.

Don't let this get to you. This is petty stuff done mainly just to get to you, and that's exactly what it's doing. If this is all she's got then she's got nothing at all to use against you. Enjoy your son and don't say a word against his mother or grandmother around him, and know that at least while he's with you he's not being given the third degree and he can just relax and have fun. As time goes by the fact that he does relax and have fun with you and return home safe and clean, will become apparent.

As a child I was subjected to this. Not the grandma, since I didn't have one, but certainly my mother.

Depending on his age, you could start educating him about what mental and emotional manipulation and abuse look like.

I feel a laugh coming on when I think about him reporting that back to them so this may not actually be sound advice.

But in all seriousness, though, I wish someone had taught me what emotional abuse & manipulation looked like. I was terrified of my dad. I would have recognized it much sooner had I been armed with this knowledge.

If they are in fact also poisoning his mind--not just querying, but inputting also--that is regarded as mental abuse. You should sue for full custody if this is the case. I'd even recommend barring her from unsupervised visitation. I cannot begin to tell you how detrimental my mom's actions were on my development & my relationship with my dad. The poisoning didn't get fixed until I was 17 and realized she was nuts.

Like every child I eventually grew-up and wised-up. I was never dumb, I just lacked information. Once I had the knowledge, that was the end of her & my relationship. I subsequently threw out every thing she taught me; everything I consciously could disregard was immediately ignored. It was clear what she'd done, which drew everything she'd taught me into question. It was all immediately suspect, since so many things had been lies and/or told to me to negatively influence my relationship. Your ex- is digging her own grave. She'll have that unconditional love she needs right now, but will likely forfeit it for the rest of the child's adult life.

Once I reached my point of clarity, I wanted nothing to do with my mom. I didn't call, I didn't write, no Mother's Day card no Christmas visits. When she'd call and tell me how much my actions hurt I suggested she reflect on my upbringing and call me back when she'd reached a conclusion. She never would. She'd go a few months and try to make contact again, typically trying to guilt me into reconciliation. I was impervious. She was a bad parent and a bad human; I get to choose who I involve in my life, and bad people don't make the cut.

You and she screwed up. Don't make that the child's problem. Children need unconditional love; they do not exist to provide that same thing to you. I believe this was my mom's mistake, trying to ensure I always gave my love to her. But I really don't know, because we didn't say anything beyond small talk for the last 9 years of her life. And as you're all aware, small talk to us is at best the minimum amount necessary to get out of a situation.

Hell, show her these paragraphs. Then tell her I said stop being a selfish c**t and to start focusing on the child. If she is considering missing a tooth brushing to be disasterous then the problem is clearly hers, not yours.

(Language, I know. Sorry. Not sorry, triggered. )

[quote] I'm a pretty damn good father to this kid, it's the one thing in life that I think I do well. But yet, I feel like I'm still under my ex's thumb, and moreso under my ex mother in law's thumb. that's the killer in this: Mommy lives with grandma, and I tons of contact with each. [/quote
] They want you to believe you're under their thumbs. Do your best aspie acting and pretend it doesn't bother you in the least (because it really shouldn't, you have nothing to hide) and when they find they get no reaction/satisfaction from you, it's quite likely they'll give this up.

I appreciate everyone's responses.... man, this really got to me and depressed me today. But, I think the best course of action now is to say nothing. I need to chill out a bit, and be "proactive" as my therapist would put it. Be agreeable, while I figure this out.

My parents, for better or for worse, are still together, so I don't what it's like to grow up with divorced parents. I'm sorry for some of you who had to go through it. The real crime is that a kid doesn't have his family together, that he's estranged from his father. It's such BS why we got divorced, it's gonna be a doosey trying to explain it to him later.

Seriously though, all they have to complain about is that he misses tooth brushings, and sometimes we sit in bed and eat fruit by the foot and watch cartoons all day.

In terms of my MIL and ex wife, the tighter you hold on the easier the sand slips away.

It's good to be able to complain about this on this forum.....

I had this joy-- my grandmother was a prying, snooping, trouble-making NT b***h always looking for any excuse she could find to find fault with the man who hurt her precious daughter (for the record, her precious daughter left said man to run off with an abusive, unemployed alcoholic who just happened to be incredibly good at flattery, and never dated a good man again-- she actually ended up begging my dad to take her back; I heard this weekend that, when he asked his grandfather for advice, he was told, "Al, a man that sees dog s**t laying by the road and picks it up once made a mistake. If he picks it up again, he's a goddamn fool."

I was the stupid ASD kid that told the lying, smarmy, backstabbing b***h everything (but please understand, she truly did mean well).

My mother died miserably hating herself when I was 12...

...and my father raised me himself for the next six years of my life.

Grandma tried to mess with us once (I was about 15). I told her, in no uncertain terms at that point, that if she did not stop her snooping, she wouldn't see me again. That ended it. Cold.

Thank God for small favors.

Dot the I's and cross the T's. Balanced meals, regular bedtimes, brushed teeth, G-rated movies only...

...for a couple more years. Then you can start having some discussions with the child about questions that do and do not have to be answered, and the definition of the verb "to pry."

Moms tend to be more strict than dads about tooth brushing, healthy meals, limits on tv/electronics (both time and content), and bedtimes, even in non-divorced families.

To cover yourself legally, I would suggest you buy those serving-size bags of baby carrots and apple slices, and always offer them (or some other fruit and veg) as well as milk in addition to the fun food -- if you're offering fruit, veg, dairy, and a protein 2-3 times a day you should be pretty well covered. Emphasize to your kid that he gets to stay up late "because it's not a school night" -- hopefully he'll repeat that justification. Bite the bullet on the tooth brushing -- maybe buy an ultra-cool toothbrush and make a game of it or something so its more fun.

I tend to get all worked up, freak out, post here, and then calm down as the day goes. People's responses usually give me perspective, it it helps out quite a bit. Much appreciated.

On a good day, I understand my ex MIL does a lot for my son as his mommy still tries to figure out her life. But that woman is overbearing and super OCD and a giant ball of anxiety. Sweet, but forceful. She used to shove food into my son's mouth, "eat eat!" until I said something. I've had to say so many things, and stress about it, figure out some political way to say it. Maybe that has something to do with it.

I'm more of the strong silent type, but I give my son my ear and listen to every word he says. I'm patient and involved. I feel like my energy has been replaced with my mother inlaws awful energy. Like someone poking you with a thousand sticks.......

I more and more like the idea of making sure he gives good reports, and then one day, when he's older, talk to him about it. Advocate for his privacy when he comes to see me.

Be VERY careful here. Anything that could be construed as a child being encouraged to keep a secret or not talk will send up ugly red flags to anyone thinking that is what has happened.

I think it is better to remind the child that there is no single right or wrong way to spend a weekend and that while brushing teeth is extremely important, and they (father and child) can both work on remembering better, the world won't end if it is forgotten. And focus on why it gets forgotten: father and child are busy doing other things that have value.

To the OP: I think it is also better to come at this proactively with the mother and the grandmother, reminding them that many different things in this world have value in a parenting relationship, not just what THEY think is important, and that you demand they stop putting the child on the spot as a way of trying to force you into parenting their way. Just call them on it. Say you feel secure with your priorities and don't want this obvious second guessing to continue.

But do remember to get the child's teeth brushed nightly. It isn't that difficult And gum disease can be dangerous in kids.

Edit: just saw your follow up. I think on the idea of working towards "good" reports, I'd just say that conforming to the extent you agree they really are right is a good thing, sometimes we all could use a little pressure to up our parenting. But on the other stuff, don't let them make you stop being yourself. Every child should sometimes get to sit in bed long past morning with fruit and TV if that is something he enjoys Stand up for your right to teach your child how to balance his life by sometimes (obviously not all the time) relaxing and just being a bum.

I agree with this. I would never recommend that you encourage your kid to be secretive. It can lead to a lot of wrong impressions. If you do not think he is distressed by it, I would just consider it a necessary nuisance. If you think it is distressing him, you may want to consider talking to his mom about it. Not in a confrontational way. But more to say "I am happy to fill you in on how the weekend went. I have noticed, though, that Son seems upset that you ask him so many questions. Could we find a way to communicate directly? I don't want him to feel like he is caught in the middle and I want to maintain our partnership in parenting him."

My kids' dad and I have been separated for 2 years. I have never asked them anything about stuff like that because my primary goal in the whole separation/divorce thing was to never put my kids in the middle and do everything I can to make things as easy as possible for them. But the truth is, they eventually started to report things back to me anyway. Not in the way of trying to get me to do the same thing, but rather...well...more like tattling, though I don't think they want to get him "in trouble." More just telling me that he doesn't always follow my rules. "Dad lets us eat a lot of junk food" "We don't eat vegetables at Dad's" "I slept in my clothes" "I didn't brush my teeth" "I played computer all day" on and on. Kids notice differences between their parents, especially when their parents are apart. No one needs to point them out.

Honestly, I think that what your son's mom is doing is going to eventually backfire. One day he is going to wonder why she always does that and you don't. Another thing from my perspective as a separated parent...My second goal was to show my kids--through my actions--what kind of person I am. I am a big believer that kids eventually figure it out when one or both parents are game playing in some manner. I never want that for my kids. When they tell me things like "I didn't brush my teeth" I tell them things like "You don't need an invitation. Brush your teeth." When they say "Dad lets us eat a lot of junk food" I say "And Mom doesn't. Not a big deal." I want my actions to show them that it is safe to love both parents and that I am not playing games.

I don't know what the point of my post is really. I guess it's just be you and do what you know is right, no matter what they do. And don't let what they do bother you. When Grandma says "He tells us everything" I'd just respond by saying "Yeah. That's one of the things I love about him!" Leave her guessing what he's telling you! LOL!