Forcing/Pushing Socialization

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I just wanted to get opinions on this. I just pulled my 6 year old son from kindergarten and have started homeschooling him. He was having a lot of behavior issues, sensory issues and his motor delay was causing a lot of frustration in the classroom with writing. We are settling into our routine at home. I am getting the typical concerns from family/friends about socialization. My son never has and still doesn't have any interest in playdates or typical socializing (parties, family gatherings,etc). Even the people he feels comfortable with and knows (my family) I get resistance on. Of course, in those scenarios (family gatherings, holidays, etc) I push him and we go. He usually sticks to himself on the couch or by the tv, with minimal talking to others. He is also quick to say he is ready to leave. He will also sometimes ask me to tell my family he doesn't want a lot of talking or questions directed at him. I have a friend in the neighborhood who has kids his age and would like to meet at neighborhood park. He cries and screams he doesn't want to go. If I force him, he seems ok when we are there but not too much interaction with the other kids. I just don't know how much I should be planning these types of interactions and how much I should force this. I know it seems especially important now since I am homeschooling. Just not sure what to do. His dad does take him at least twice a week to his cousin's house so he is getting some (although minimal) interaction with other kids.

Sounds to me like he is overwhelmed by too many people, and too much talking.

How is he at his cousin's house? Given that you described this as a "minimal" amount of social interaction, it may not be as overwhelming for him...

And how are the other kids treating him when he is in large groups? Is he being bullied or not given a fair shake? Some bullying, you may have to make the kids think your back is turned in order to spot...

Does he have activities he likes? He might tolerate being around other people in order to engage in activities that he enjoys.

To be honest, at 6 my son was the opposite, always wanting to engage, just being bad at it. A few things to note:

1. Adults are easier than kids, because they don't go through so many phases, stages, fads and slang.
2. He will have to learn how to interact with people, but he himself will also be changing and growing and what he is ready for will change.

In general, when it comes to life skills, I've found that nudging is good, pushing too hard is not; get an idea what your child can handle and then nudge him into that. But keep it all at levels in which he is likely to be successful, and only stretch the comfort zone more as he gets older and more mature.

It's not really socialization if he's not engaged with anyone socially. Just putting him in proximity doesn't seem to be working either. So how do you get him to engage? I think the first step is with his interests. You need to find things that he likes and then find ways to make people instrumental in getting those things. At the most basic level this could be handing a non-verbal child candy whenever he approached a new caregiver, or playmate. It could be pushing a child on the swings whenever he looks or requests it. It could be playing legos with a child, or even having a special lego set that he is only allowed to play when a peer or parent is there. At higher levels this could be playing sports together, or video games, or board games. These activities are all easier with someone who is patient and willing to wait for him to come around. Usually adults are better at this, and so people often start social skills training with adults, although a willing peer (like a sibling) may also be helpful. Either way, take it slow, and focus on maximizing engagement with others doing activities that he likes in situations where he is comfortable...those are the times that he is going to learn social skills. Once he becomes comfortable with specific people, then you can start branching out to new fun activities and settings, and eventually to less fun settings / activities.

It may be necessary to bring him to social events, where he shuts down and sitcks to himself, but at this stage, treat those as difficult moments that you will help him tolerate, rather than learning opportunities. The learning opportunities come when you engage him at or just slightly above his current level. When he's good with one peer, you can introduce a second and then a third, and maybe after that you could consider a party a learning opportunity.

I dont understand the reason for that. So I avoid socializing as well, it simply affects me negative, so there is no reason to do so for fun.

I do understand the necesitty to train dealing with situations, you cant avoid. As example doctors, officials, ... But until now, going to a party, was no life necessity, so why force that on someone without need? O_o

Thanks for the replies. I feel the other kids just don't get him. He is not great at reciprocal conversation. He likes to talk about what he wants and sometimes it's pretend stuff that other children may not understand. Other kids don't have interest in what he wants to tell them usually. Myself, my husband, his dad, all adults in his life get him engaged in conversation and play but it usually works because we allow him to talk about what he wants to talk about. Not to say, he can never have a conversation about a topic we want. I am having a hard time in general right now. I am sort of anti therapies right now. This kid has been getting on and off therapy since he was six months old. Some has helped, others not sure how much. He is becoming more aware of his differences, and I am sort of at the mindset right now to let him be a kid and be himself! But of course, as a parent, I want to do the best thing for him. I feel I made the right decision pulling him to homeschool right now. It just was not working this year and to be honest did more harm than good at school.
My family, although trying to be supportive, are in complete denial of his PDD-NOS diagnosis. My sister, her husband, my nephew basically think nothing is wrong with him. My nephew does pick on him/tease him but in a cousin/brother way. My son can't handle this...ends up screaming and hitting. Then eyes get turned on me like I am doing something wrong as a parent (lack of socialization, lack of discipline, etc). This is a whole other topic, but sort of over my family. I think the reason for this post was spurred on by a recent family gathering and the interaction between my son and my nephew (described above). My 14 year old nephew made a remark that my son acts the way he does because he is not around kids enough. I was livid, more at my sister (because my nephew had to have heard this from her). Again, the lack of acknowledgement of his diagnosis. My son has been in preschool since he 2 years old. I just pulled him from school a month ago. And there is a thought he is not around kids enough? I want to scream. Yes, I am not huge into filling up our weeks with playdates, mainly because my son has no interest. But to say he isn't around kids when he has been in a preschool/school setting for 4 years UGGGGGHHHHH. Ok this became more of a vent. Sorry.....

No worries about the vent ... we can ALL relate. Vent away. You will need to many, many times on this journey.

It would be great if you could get some of the adults he interacts with (which will mostly be yourself ) to slowly start nudging him in the direction of reciprocal conversation. This can be built into your school curriculum, along with things like game play where turns have to be taken. Create exercises where you get a turn to talk and he has to repeat back to you and ask you questions; the sorts of things a speech therapist might do.

Is he involved in speech therapy? Pragmatic speech therapy will be really helpful for his interactions with others, long term.

And tell the nephew to stop poking the bear. If he can't, keep distance between the two at family events and be clear to your nephew why. Who cares what the family thinks of all that; this is your child and your responsibility to give him the space he needs to learn in his own time and own way. (I know, it is hard not to care, but this is a battle you will be fighting for a long time so may as well armor up; it is just the way it usually is)

A lot of us have family issues that are similar b.c frankly people do not understand. My family, I can handle, my husband's family---ugh. They are super-critical and on top of it have a very different culture/child-raising philosophy and are totally rigid about it. I try to avoid these discussions with them, and when I can't , say something terse like, "He is just fine," even when that means ..all things considered...

As far as a 14 year old giving you a hard time, I would just tell him he is not a parenting expert, and if he mom wants to claim she is, you can tell her she doesn't know a da** thing about PDD-NOS, or you don't want to discuss it with her, or whatever suits your temperament.

Socialization through osmosis does not work for us. Think of it this way ---when little NT ones are in the parallel play stage you can't socialize them into reciprocal play until they are ready. Practice will help, but only when desire and readiness are there. Also because of the age our kids may hit this stage they are then expected to somehow immediately be able to get promoted to advanced socialization b/c that is what the kids their age do. It does not work that way, and negative socialization can be counterproductive and even harmful.

Right now--I am trying to get my son to understand very basic concepts that a 5 yr old normally understands. My son is 8. So, no, he cannot socialize with kids his age with no guidance or help. I accept it because it is reality. Extended family does not live it, and their opinions are what they are. I can't do anything about that, either.

You have to learn to shut that down or ignore them. They don't have the best interests of you or your son in mind.

What they are doing thoughtlessly is really destructive.

If any of them are at all thoughtful or compassionate, you should have one-on-one conversations with them to try to enlist their support. Some of them may be natural leaders of the family and it would be great if you could enlist the support of those people. however that works out, though, you can't allow them to coerce you into doing things that are damaging to your boy, like putting up with their harassment.

Good luck!

Valid point (and the example about parallel play is a good one, too).

Until my son hit middle school, I found that I needed to be "involved" in his play dates, either staying within ear shot to help as needed, or structuring the entire "event" so that things would go smoothly for both children. I didn't start out that way, but enough meltdowns and you make the decision.

We also learned fast that 3 kids was a recipe for disaster; they have to learn one on one first.

My son has learned, and is considered a "leader" at his High School. But it did not just "happen" from being around other kids; a whole bunch of people TAUGHT him.

It is possible to live a life without these sorts of events, but it may have subtle social consequences to avoid parties as a whole. For someone who is unable to cope with the situation, I agree with you that it's not worth the trouble in most cases. Even so, there are circumstances where families require attendance at a party. For example, if a close family member were getting married, and you skipped the wedding, they may interpret it as a social rejection. This would be one of those situations where you may have to tolerate it, for your family's sake. I recently attended a party that I didn't really want to go to, solely because my wife would have been upset if she had to go alone. She was going because it was important to her friend...Everyone would have been fine if we had stayed home, but in this case it served to strengthen two relationships and help two people feel more supported (my wife, by me, and her friend, by her). I also got some free food.

Parties can also be very important for social, romantic and professional life. They help to maintain and develop new friendships. Being able to socialize at a party may lead to meeting a potential romantic partner. It may also allow you to meet a potential future employer, or it may just put you in the mind of an acquaintance who knows someone who is looking to hire someone, and you would be the perfect one for the job. There are even professional parties and conferences that are aimed at this sort of professional networking. If it's a work party, it may improve your boss's impression of you such that you are more likely to get a promotion and failing to make a good social impression on your boss may result in them choosing you to lay off over other people, because they care for those people more (since they socialized with them). I know some of this is unfair and unjust, but it is how the world can work sometimes. Although any particular gathering may not be materially beneficial, avoiding them altogether may result in important missed opportunities.

So I do think being able to attend parties and be appropriately sociable in those contexts is an important social goal for people. If it is far beyond someone's ability, it may not be an immediate goal, but it doesn't mean that attending parties should not be an eventual goal.

The way you say this is very confusing: You start out saying "unable to cope" and then you state "Even so, there are circumstances [...] where you may have to tolerate it" -- which is it? If someone is unable to cope, that literally means they cannot tolerate it -- so did you switch to referring to a group of people who can tolerate it without actually stating this, or do you not believe that some people really can't tolerate it?

I do sometimes go to things for as long as I can (if I can -- sometimes I quite literally cannot) in situations where it means a lot to someone I care about.... However, I think there are limits to my responsibility for another person's feelings resulting from their misinterpretation of my inability to do something. If I try to explain myself and if I work hard to find other ways to show them I care (there are often other ways -- for example, I could offer to stop by another time to congratulate them in person and drop off a wedding gift), I have done what I can, and if they cannot see that I am not rejecting them it is not my failing (nor is it necessarily theirs, I'm just trying to say that I do not "have to" do exactly what they want just because it's the normal thing to do nor because they might have trouble understanding).

I know that someone's special day means going the extra mile for them, but going the extra mile should stop at reasonable sacrifice and extra effort -- it should not mean actually hurting yourself....relationships don't stop being at least a teensy bit reciprocal just because one person is having a special day. These things work both ways, it's not as simple as saying, "You have to do it for your family member" -- I could just as easily say the same thing to my family member, about their dealing with my absence and expecting them to be understanding and my expectation is no less valid.

And really, if you have a destructive, screaming meltdown, or shutdown and spend hours rocking or sitting statue-still in a corner by yourself, or can't converse and get so overloaded that your brain starts shorting out and you lose functional abilities (this last one would apply mostly to a work party, I think) then there is really no point at all in being there unless you want to be.



You don't need to go to parties to make friends or meet partners. Some people would be better off making friends/meeting partners in other ways (at school, at work, at clubs, at social groups, talking with neighbours, talking to random strangers even works sometimes -- not for me, but I know others who have met friends that way).



I have had people help me get jobs without going to parties. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that I think you're overstating the importance of attending parties.



Maybe, maybe not. It reall depends on your life and social circle.



I disagree that attending parties is an important goal. I think people can get along just fine in life and careers without attending parties -- it may be harder, depending on their circumstances (friends, employer, career, etc), or it may not be, given that "harder" can be a relative thing. Attending parties in the way you talk about (i.e. in a functional state) will never be a goal for me, because it's totally unrealistic -- improving my repertoire of scripts and my ability to converse with people? That's a reasonable goal for me (and one I have made lots of progress on in my life), but it's best worked on outside of parties in quieter and less over-stimulating environments.

Last edited by animalcrackers on 06 Mar 2014, 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: parties: It really depends on the person. Corporate parties are optional or not depending on the job. When I was young, before I really understood myself, I would try. I was Ok most of the time as a child, and teen (though it was not necessarily fun) but the social requirements overwhelmed me later on. By then I had friends who didn't like parties but I still tried in order to get the "authentic college experience."

With my son, I would have to be making much better progress on our other goals to even include this amongst them. We have family functions, and we weigh attendance, in part, based on my son's ability to escape and zone out of it, when (not if) needed and if he and one can parent can separate from the group when necessary. There have been occasions my husband and I have attended separately b/c they were "must attend" events on either side that did not meet our requirements.

I have stopped caring how family views it. because it is a tough balancing act and It is hard enough to do what we do.

Edited for clarity and literacy.

Last edited by ASDMommyASDKid on 06 Mar 2014, 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

A lot of families are toxic. Their group interactions are more about reinforcing shared mythology and demonstrating internal hierarchy than doing good for their individual members. The views of people engaged in this sort of thing are not worth considering when you have real needs to consider.

It is a valuable skill to be able to go to a group lunch or dinner at work, but this is not something you will learn during Thanksgiving rituals with Grandma and Grandpa and all the aunties and uncles.

If they are willing to learn and want to help, great. If their primary concern is getting the child to conform to the family system, and they are inflexible and unwilling to tolerate any change for the good of the child (and these traits do run in families!) then their needs should be prioritized way, way below the needs of the child and the parents who are helping the child.

There will be plenty of time when he's older to learn how to manage lunch with the boss or drinks after work with the team. There is no need to go through serial torture with an ignorant and uncaring family.

You're right, I misspoke (misswrote?). I meant to say something like "effectively socialize" rather than "cope" in that initial part. Which puts me in agreement with your last paragraph. If you're not actually making social gains at parties, then it isn't really doing anything for you (as those potential opportunities only apply if you are able to effectively socialize). Whether that is within your reach or not is an individual judgment call, and I'm sure you are a better judge of your own personal situation (although your friends and relatives may have useful insight on this as well).

So let me revise myself to be clear: I think that if it is within your reach to attain social skills that make you effective in a group social context, then it is probably in your own best interest to practice that skill. Doing so may be initially daunting and difficult, or even painful, but may result in a variety of long-term benefits. If you only humiliate yourself or offend others at parties, then they may just be pointless torture, and you should endure them only when obligated to.

There are also some people who may feel embarrassed at parties, and this may not accurately reflect the impressions that others have of them. Those people may believe that they are in the category of people for whom social success is hopelessly out of reach, when in fact the only thing holding them back is their own anxiety or self-doubt. It may therefore be worth getting some feedback from friends and relatives before determining that it is a hopeless cause.

Sorry for getting off topic here. I'm trying to give a neurotypical perspective on how these things work. I'm trying to do this for the benefit of the ASD members here, who may not have personally experienced some of those potential benefits. I hope I don't seem like I'm blindly pushing conformity, as I do understand that these things can be very difficult for some, and I do respect their choices.

Thanks for clarfying -- I understand better now what you're saying and it does make sense. I agree with you that the ability to socialize in groups is useful and that sometimes difficult and painful things are worth doing.



Personally my problem is not that I feel humiliated or that I offend people (as far as I know I don't offend people all the time or anything); the biggest problem is sensory overload, followed by getting completely lost in group conversations and interactions (which is frustrating and exhausting, but not embarrasing or humiliating).



I see what you're saying. I still want to add that social success doesn't only happen at/through successful interaction at parties, though....even if you are hopeless at parties, all is not lost. There are many types of social interactions, and sometimes people introduce each other one on one (for the whole networking and meeting new people benefit).



I get that.

Last edited by animalcrackers on 07 Mar 2014, 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.