Hitting vs. self-defense

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I am in a dilemma.

My husband has been telling my DS5 that he should hit back if anyone ever hits him (even his younger brother), so that he doesn't feel like a helpless victim and can learn to defend himself. On the other hand, I thought it better to not teach that (rather, to walk away or tell a teacher) because I know he can often misread a person's intention (obviously moreso than the average 5yo) and very likely hit an innocent person, and also that violence begets more violence. I just think it's better not to risk DS5 getting into trouble, but my husband thinks as a boy he needs to be able to defend himself and learn to fight. He used to go to martial arts classes but his schedule now does not allow for it. I cannot possibly explain each and every scenario to him, as he can barely listen to me for any length of time as it is. Any ideas, anyone? My husband and I cannot see eye-to-eye about this.

When my brother was three or four, my youngest brother kept on hitting him and my mom tried giving him consequences for it and none of them worked so she told my brother if he hits him, he has her permission to hit him back. So every time my brother hit him, he always got hit back and he stopped eventually because he didn't like getting hit by him because it would hurt.

I would be careful when telling an ASD child this and make it clear it only applies in a certain situation to someone. I agree it doesn't sound like a good idea for your son to hit for "self defense" because he has a hard time with reading intentions and that will just make things worse for him.

I agree with your husband, but you obviously have to do a lot of work around interpreting what is and isn't an attack.

But the basics are clear: if you don't pose any threat and are not guarded 24 hours a day, you will be victimized. If you respond to physical intimidation with the plausible threat of a counterstrike, you will be left alone.

Normal boys, in the right circumstances, do a lot of really nasty stuff to each other. Do you know what a swirly is? Want to help your son not get one? Let him learn how to hurt people.

I am only speaking from personal experience, here, but I would imagine your husband knows what I am talking about. Most men who I have talked about this with do.

we are stuck in a similar situation. While my son rarely hit back when younger, and always told the teacher like he had been taught to do, once he reached middle school, he came to the conclusion that the teachers either 1) don't care 2) don't do anything if they didn't see it or 3) are powerless to do anything. So, he decided to stand up for himself and not take it anymore. I have to admit, he is much better at 13 deciding if kids are intentional or just accidental, but not great at it. The issue now is that he is just not sneaky and devious enough to get away with it. For example, another boy waits for the teachers back to be turned to do something to my son, and my son retaliates without checking to see if the teacher is watching. Guess who gets in trouble? My son of course. Then there is the outright lies that the other kids say he does stuff when he doesn't. While the teachers usually believe he didn't do it, he loses his cool, has a meltdown, and guess who is removed from the classroom? my son. After losing count for the number of office referrals for fighting this year (when in elementary he only got in trouble two times in his whole 7 years that I can remember for hitting someone), and several fruitless IEP meetings, we decided to try homeschooling (online public school actually). We will see how it turns out.

It is definitely a tricky question to decide to tell your child to seek help or just stand up for himself.

mikassyna, please find a way to put karate back on his schedule. I found it to be a very important part of my son's education or Asperger's 'treatment'. He goes 2 - 3 days a week, so he is really immersed in techniques and discipline. My son does not have to think about how to carry himself or defend himself, he just does. He is really training his body, relying on muscle memory. He has been in situations where he has had to deflect a attacks and he just moved how he needed to without thinking about it. The kids don't realize why the respect him more, they just do. They play a hide and seek game where they tackle their opponents before they can run to 'base'. My son says he always escapes being tackled and he doesn't know why. I do. He knows how to move and deflect others but he doesn't realize it.

I'm guessing DS has ASD? If so, I think he is better off if the adults can try to convey that the world can be a safe place for him. We all know it isn't always, but he needs to believe his parents try to make it so. And he SHOULD be adequately supervised in school.

I know that might sound naive to your husband, but a child with ASD may feel so assaulted by sensory stimuli that relatively innocent things get misperceived as an assault, and you can't have your child hitting every time he experiences sensory overload because that just happens too much, I think, no matter how we try to help and control the environment,

I hope this is hypothetical, though. Because there is no reason a 5 year old with or without ASD should need to hit back on any kind of routine basis. And therefore no reason he should need to stay focused on this. To me, this should be like what to do in a fire. It's good to plan, but neither children nor adults thrive living in emergency conditions.

I'm not saying anyone should freak out if your son hits someone, or that it's necessarily always wrong to hit. I guess I'm thinking that if he has ASD, other children may set him up to get hurt and in trouble if he uses hitting because the socially skilled are usually much better than a child with ASD at planning how far to go that they'll get away with. And as he gets older, there may be some nasty kids who will provoke him into ineffectively hitting when teachers are watching and then he gets in trouble and feels it's unfair, only adults suddenly aren't listening.

There's lots of ways of bullying, and the physical stuff is just part of that. The psychological can be worse, and the humiliation of being someone's toy and the confusion of being set up and no one will listen to what really happened are pretty awful, too. And the only slight protection you can give your child against that psychological destruction is a sense of trust in responsible adults to help him.

Not saying others are wrong. Just that I've gotten kicked around psychologically and when people are doing that to you, being angry and complaining just adds to the perception that you are the problem. And no child, no person, should have to be a toy to kick around for other people who feel like messing with them.

I'm sorry that happened to you Adamantium.

And I agree with you that parents need to decide whether their child can defend him or herself, or not.

I don't believe any amount of vigilance is an adequate substitute for social judgment. You may be right that it would have made a difference, but I was a very scared little girl, and that did not help me protect myself from what I could not understand.

And I keep thinking, Adamantium, how very much I hope that you are right, maybe most girls escape childhood experiencing only minimal physical violence. Or maybe it's just that boys are better taught to use a show of force, as you are describing. I hope someday I can learn to do that, when necessary. But it just isn't something I or many girls from when I was a child were taught. Maybe it just is more important for boys.

I think a lot of us grew up feeling physically as well as psychologically unsafe from what I read here. I wish it were otherwise but if it seems to you I don't know what it's like to have people in groups hurt me because I am female, that's inaccurate.

I know what it's like when people come after me, too. I can't forget. I want to and I can't. But I keep trying not to live there.

I agree with your husband. Don't teach him to hit somebody for what they say, but when somebody hits him then the intention is pretty clear, so he should hit back. He doesn't want to wait and learn how to deal with it when he's about 13 and had to live through it for that long. Let him grow up with some honor and strength.

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I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
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Your mention of martial arts reminded me:

In martial arts classes, they teach ways to block attacks as well as how to attack people. Maybe tell him that he shouldn't hit people, but if they try to hit him, he should block it. And make sure he gets enough training that he'll be able to do that in the heat of the moment.

I dunno. I turned out alright. I never caused someone pain out of mistake. in fact it wasn't until highschool that I really even listened to it and followed through. My father told me the same thing- to fight back. ONLY if the other person started it. Only to prove my equality, or at least my willingness to stand up for myself. NEVER to prove myself or demonstrate myself above anyone.

Those qualifications, if delivered with the rest of the message are important. And so is the fact that as a male you DO have to be willing to fight back when the situation demands it - as a human being, you have to feel that fighting is wrong. So my vote is that dad is correct, but you both need to be united in the portrayal of WHEN it is permissible to fight back, and WHY.