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Adamantium
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14 May 2014, 10:53 am

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... s-science/

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The current study measured blood levels of C-reactive protein (CRP)?a biomarker of chronic inflammation that's been linked to cardiovascular risk and metabolic syndrome... CRP is a sign of stress on the body... a harbinger of health problems down the road....

...those who had been bullied had the highest level of increase, and former bullies had the lowest. Those who were bully-victims fell somewhere in between...

There seems to be a protective effect for the bullies because of this enhanced social status, or their success that comes along with being a good bully," Copeland said. The pattern was present even after controlling for body mass index, substance use, health status, and exposure to other types of trauma.


I found this quite depressing.



elkclan
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14 May 2014, 11:05 am

yep. I've also seen but can't cite a study that said that abusers get positive effects from abuse - i.e. lowered heart rate, I assume lower stress hormone levels.



BuyerBeware
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14 May 2014, 11:21 am

Of course it is!! !

I've said it before, I will say it again: HUMAN BEINGS SUCK. Bullies don't grow out of it-- they just get older, smarter, and more subtle. And kicking someone else-- having power over them, putting them down, getting your way, and reminding them that you're up here and they're down there still releases happy chemicals and does something good for the organism.

People suck. Human nature isn't good. Bullying is a (highly successful) attempt by the most aggressive normals to remove outliers from the gene pool.

Hell, my FIL loved his grandkids (though I note he preferred his popular, athletic children from his first marriage to the nerdy soccer-playing son from his second wife that I married). You know what he called them?? Pups.

I asked him why. Despite the fact that I'd been subservient to him for the last seven years of his life, the answer was, "Because they came out of a f*****g b***h."

You're the bottom. They're the top. It's going to kill you, and they will benefit.

Bullying is an adaptive part of human nature. Get used to it.


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14 May 2014, 11:41 am

A person who doesn't care about the well-being and concerns of those around them(i.e. a bully) is obviously a good candidate for someone with low-stress levels.



Sweetleaf
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14 May 2014, 11:48 am

BuyerBeware wrote:
Of course it is!! !

I've said it before, I will say it again: HUMAN BEINGS SUCK. Bullies don't grow out of it-- they just get older, smarter, and more subtle. And kicking someone else-- having power over them, putting them down, getting your way, and reminding them that you're up here and they're down there still releases happy chemicals and does something good for the organism.

People suck. Human nature isn't good. Bullying is a (highly successful) attempt by the most aggressive normals to remove outliers from the gene pool.

Hell, my FIL loved his grandkids (though I note he preferred his popular, athletic children from his first marriage to the nerdy soccer-playing son from his second wife that I married). You know what he called them?? Pups.

I asked him why. Despite the fact that I'd been subservient to him for the last seven years of his life, the answer was, "Because they came out of a f***ing b***h."

You're the bottom. They're the top. It's going to kill you, and they will benefit.

Bullying is an adaptive part of human nature. Get used to it.


Wait you married the second wife of one of your male relatives...had a child with her and yet its still that male relatives son? Confusing. Also does he currently have a wife? If not I can see why if all he sees women as are b*****s to put your penis in and have children come out.

Also getting used to bullying doesn't do anything good, if anything it seems to contribute to mental problems because you get used to being put down and treated like crap by your peers because someone has to be the bottom.


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Adamantium
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14 May 2014, 12:14 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
BuyerBeware wrote:
Of course it is!! !

I've said it before, I will say it again: HUMAN BEINGS SUCK. Bullies don't grow out of it-- they just get older, smarter, and more subtle. And kicking someone else-- having power over them, putting them down, getting your way, and reminding them that you're up here and they're down there still releases happy chemicals and does something good for the organism.

People suck. Human nature isn't good. Bullying is a (highly successful) attempt by the most aggressive normals to remove outliers from the gene pool.

Hell, my FIL loved his grandkids (though I note he preferred his popular, athletic children from his first marriage to the nerdy soccer-playing son from his second wife that I married). You know what he called them?? Pups.

I asked him why. Despite the fact that I'd been subservient to him for the last seven years of his life, the answer was, "Because they came out of a f***ing b***h."

You're the bottom. They're the top. It's going to kill you, and they will benefit.

Bullying is an adaptive part of human nature. Get used to it.


Wait you married the second wife of one of your male relatives...had a child with her and yet its still that male relatives son? Confusing. Also does he currently have a wife? If not I can see why if all he sees women as are b*****s to put your penis in and have children come out.

Also getting used to bullying doesn't do anything good, if anything it seems to contribute to mental problems because you get used to being put down and treated like crap by your peers because someone has to be the bottom.


have a look a buyerbeware's profile, then reread that post, giving particular care to how you parse "the nerdy soccer-playing son from his second wife that I married" is BB saying she married FIL's second wife or the son from his second wife...

Comprehension will follow.



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14 May 2014, 12:34 pm

That article sounded like it was saying bullying others is healthy, you know making an excuse for bullies to bully and justifying it.


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14 May 2014, 1:17 pm

Quote:
Hell, my FIL loved his grandkids (though I note he preferred his popular, athletic children from his first marriage to the nerdy soccer-playing son from his second wife that I married). You know what he called them?? Pups.

I asked him why. Despite the fact that I'd been subservient to him for the last seven years of his life, the answer was, "Because they came out of a f***ing b***h."



"From there to here, from here to there, funny things are everywhere."

You married his wife, and he's your FIL? Then your wife is his daughter, and was married to her dad?
:lol:



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14 May 2014, 1:27 pm

BuyerBeware wrote:
I've said it before, I will say it again: HUMAN BEINGS SUCK. Bullies don't grow out of it-- they just get older, smarter, and more subtle.


It sounds like your describing my well-off aunt and uncle. When I dropped out of college due to depression induced exhaustion they told me how easy college was, how when they were there they only had to study the night before the exam and spent the rest of their time partying, called me a whinger and spent the next few years blaming me for the failing economy and raising their overachieving kids who are good at everything.

Also I recall some study that proved obnoxious people are more likely to become wealthy and successful (and may become your boss).
It's all described in that most revered of science journals, Cracked.
http://www.cracked.com/article_21053_5- ... nt_p2.html



BuyerBeware
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14 May 2014, 1:43 pm

Sorry. I guess the syntax sucks.

My FIL married one woman, and had three kids with her. They were all popular and athletic, and he liked them better.

She left him, and he married another woman. They had one kid. He was a soccer-playing nerd. His father (my FIL) didn't like him until he finished engineering school and started making a lot of money.

I married that kid, thus making his father my father-in-law.

The story is only relevant at all because my FIL was a dyed-in-the-wool bully, who seemed to get some kind of neurochemical high out of kicking my husband (at least until he "proved up") and then me.

"It's time to eat kids." "It's time to eat, kids." GRAMMAR IS IMPORTANT!! !!


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Adamantium
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14 May 2014, 1:45 pm

League_Girl wrote:
That article sounded like it was saying bullying others is healthy, you know making an excuse for bullies to bully and justifying it.


I don't think so.

What it was saying is that there is a benefit to bullying--not a moral judgment but a biochemical fact.

Can people create alternative paths to good health? I think so, and the ethics of how to deal with the situation are a completely different question than the one asked by this study which was: "what happens to the people on all sides of bullying as a result?"

There are probably some tough questions to establish causal relationships, but the inferences about social benefits seem plausible. What humans choose to do with this knowledge is up to us.



Janissy
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14 May 2014, 3:04 pm

Adamantium wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
That article sounded like it was saying bullying others is healthy, you know making an excuse for bullies to bully and justifying it.


I don't think so.

What it was saying is that there is a benefit to bullying--not a moral judgment but a biochemical fact.

Can people create alternative paths to good health? I think so, and the ethics of how to deal with the situation are a completely different question than the one asked by this study which was: "what happens to the people on all sides of bullying as a result?"

There are probably some tough questions to establish causal relationships, but the inferences about social benefits seem plausible. What humans choose to do with this knowledge is up to us.


Can people create alternative paths to the good health that bullies enjoy? That might be a way to use this information. If a kid is getting a benefit from being a bully, maybe the adults in his/her life can steer him/her towards a different path to the same benefits. Maybe bullying is a perversion of a leadership instinct. The bully gets followers and thus higher social status and the measured health benefits that brings. If that kid could gain followers by leading in a positive way rather than a bullying way, that could help.



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14 May 2014, 3:14 pm

Psychologists divide mental disorders into "externalizing" and "internalizing" types, where externalizing includes things like antisocial personality disorder, and internalizing includes anxiety and depression. That article only refers to the internalizing issues as problems, and seemed to ignore externalizing disorders as a possible consequence of bullying (for the bully). It makes sense that the externalizing approach is beneficial and protective for the individual, but just like the internalizing approaches, if you take it too far, you become unable to function in this society. Whereas with anxiety and depression, people can wind up locked in their houses; people who go too far with their externalizing can wind up locked in jail.

I do think it's useful to understand the positive effects of the behavior, even if we want to eradicate it; just like we should want to understand reward pathways for drugs as we're trying to treat or reduce drug use. Unfortunately, the person who wrote that blog-post gave a very simplistic overview of the topic that can easily be misinterpreted as "bullying is beneficial".



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14 May 2014, 3:20 pm

...nevermind what I was confused about makes more sense now.


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14 May 2014, 9:55 pm

This is one of the most disturbing studies I've ever seen. Biology is so cruel.



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15 May 2014, 4:36 am

We homeschool middle school. My son heard about that bullying/health study on the news. His reaction, "So, Mom, you still want to send me to a high school?" Grrrrrr.