8 year old son with Aspergers...behavior at home

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My 8 year old boy over very high functioning and has an unbelievable respect for every authority figure except me and my ex-wife. I'm concerned and having a very hard time coping! I feel like I'm redirecting every minute of my life. It seems like he is doing everything possible to break the rules, test boundaries and push every wrong button possible.

He wants to connect with others and he is misbehaving in order to get attention. He using potty words to get a laugh from others, he hits me when frustrated, laughs whenever someone gets hurt, constantly talks back and tells me he hates me, spits during tantrums.

This seems to be getting worse and I'm feeling depressed and like a failure.

Can any parent or adult/teen with Aspergers help me understand how to deal with this?

Are you saying he respects other adults, but not you? If that's the case, my guess is he is scared or overwhelmed and that what looks like testing might be his falling apart. One of the things that makes me fall apart is any kind of unspoken agendas and tensions that create confusion. And confusion in general, especially when everyone else seems unaffected is tough.

If you and your ex get along, clear explanations of what has and is happening can help, but even minor things might be setting him off. If one thinks very literally for instance and parents say they'll always love each other but .... A neurotypical kid might just be afraid the parents might stop loving him or her, a literal kid might notice something's really off, because mom and dad don't love each other, might even perceive the parents as lying, and will certainly feel confused.

I think the worst part about what you're describing is your son's actions make it really hard for you to give him the calm he needs. Would you be able to find a counselor with experience working with kids on the spectrum?

Whatever else you do, try not to tell yourself he is manipulating, or testing--it seems unlikely an 8 year old with ASD who behaves well with other adults is capable of that degree of theory of mind. I certainly wasn't. I'm still not, but a lot of people seem to learn. Doesn't matter though for what you need. If he won't listen, maybe he doesn't understand the divorce, or he's angry and wants you to fix something (could he be scared in school?) or maybe sensory issues.

Also think about what he might really want. You're saying he's doing things for attention. At 8 I wanted to be left alone. I don't know what your son wants but I think it can be sorted out. If it's social confusion, a counselor might be able to help---make sure they have experience with kids with ASD. But for my child when she was 8 the occupational therapist for sensory issues and speech therapist to improve effectively communicating needs were far more helpful than any counseling.

Can you give us a specific situation?

Are you sure that he has "unbelievable respect" for other adults, or do you think he is trying desperately to hold it all together until he is around people he feels safe with? That is a very common pattern for kids with ASD who are overwhelmed.


The best way to attack it, IMO, is to find out what stressors he has in his daily life, and if there is anyway you can scaffold things (or convince the school to do so) so his day is less stressful. If you are in a location where the school year is ending, you might start to see improvement in the summer, if the issues are school-driven.

If you can catch him in a calm moment, how does he do at explaining what may be troubling him.? If he can communicate fairly well when he is calm, you might be able to uncover some things. Don't try to engage him while he is melting down, as that will not likely go well. They have trouble thinking in melt-down mode.

Edited to delete extra quote stuff.

I agree with the above: my son was the same way, we'd get comments from other parents on how well-behaved and polite he was and he would come home and explode - and he was violent at this age as well.

One therapist likened it to him holding a beach ball underwater: he could do it for a limited time, but the built-up pressure has to go sometime. In a way, it's an underhanded compliment: he feels safe at home, and doesn't feel safe anywhere else. Another plus: he knows the behavior is inappropriate, so although he can't control it, he knows to hide it in public.

You probably have a child who is completely terrified of himself and doesn't understand his own behavior any more than you do. At the top of this thread, there is a post stickied entitled "Parenting Index" where some posts on different topics have been collected. Read over the posts on violent behavior, you might see some similarities and learn some strategies there.

One of the biggest things to remember: one of the most challenging deficits in autism is communication. This means that your child may be unable to either frame or to communicate what's happening to him. Your job as a parent is primarily detective work: research autism and follow your child's clues to see if you can find out what it is that's causing him to lose control. We have a saying on this board: behavior is communication. If you re-frame your child's behavior in this way (his only way to communicate what's going on) you might feel less powerless and be able to help more. Charting behavioral outbursts and looking for patterns can be very helpful.

I understand how worried and afraid you must be; I've been there. I first came to this forum terrified because my son was very similar at this age (there is a giant leap in development for neurotypical kids around 8-10, and our kids often are behind, which makes them seem like they've suddenly become worse - but it's a comparison to their peers - in reality you probably have an 8 year old with the social development of a kindergartener. Don't worry, development happens, just not at a predictable pace.)

He is now doing very well, and we've moved beyond the violence and misbehavior in large part. Some of that was simply development on his part, and some of that was a concerted, team effort on the part of ourselves, the school, and his therapists to understand what was going on and support him appropriately. Hang in there - you're on the right track just by asking questions.

Wow...so many good points. Thanks for the feedback.

I believe my boy is looking for attention...he wants to make people like him which is why he misbehaves when he's with me and in a social setting. He'll use potty words, pass gas etc , because other kids might laugh. I also know he hates it when I get mad at him for misbehaving. For him, the threat of a time-out is just as bad as the time-out itself.

Regarding other authority figures: at school he was so terrified of having his behavior chart changed that his teacher had to remove his name from the list. He spent all day obsessing over that chart and was terrified when his teacher approached the chart for any reason. Since he wasn't a behavior problem at school. They simply took him off.

I know he's trying to communicate...I just don't know what I can do to help him communicate in an appropriate manner. How can I help him?

My son once memorized a joke book (it only takes him reading it once or twice) in order to be able to tell jokes. He liked doing it because it was an interaction he understood: I tell the joke, you listen or respond (depending on the style of joke) I tell the punchline, you laugh, interaction over.

He wasn't doing it for attention, but because he needed a predictable pattern in order to help him interact AT ALL.

This may or may not make sense for your son. What helped my son in many instances was re-scripting an appropriate response for him in situations where he seemed unsure - e.g. "What's your name? My name is _________ Do you like Legos?" Sometimes when my son is inappropriate, I'll just step in and say something appropriate on his behalf. "What _____________ meant to say was that he's starving, that looks delicious!" (or whatever.)

Think of it as him being a foreigner who doesn't speak English at all. Come up with strategies you'd use to help a child in that situation - they may apply here as well.

There's a time and place where potty words, passing gas, etc., are completely appropriate -- when an 8 yo boy is hanging out with other 8 yo boys! Many Aspies have trouble understanding social context and social hierarchies, and that behavior that is appropriate in one situation with one group of people is not ok in a different setting with different people (eg adults). It made his friends laugh, so he's probably confused about why Dad got mad.

The standard psychological explanation is that kids do stuff like this because they "want attention". If that were true, ignoring the behavior and giving praise and attention to more appropriate behavior would make the potty words, passing gas, etc., go away. I haven't found this advice to be very helpful with my son. It didn't give me any tools that actually made a difference in reducing tantrums and other problematic behavior. Nor did reward stickers and prizes to "motivate" him to behave well do much good.

There is a psychologist named Ross W Greene who takes a very different approach. I'm still learning about it but when I look back at what HAS worked to help my son, his approach fits with my observations and makes sense. He believes that problem behavior is almost always due to lagging skills (for example, not understanding social context) and "unsolved problems" (all those things that make your child anxious or easily upset). With this mindset, you can look for ways to teach the missing skills and work together with your child to identify the causes of his tantrums and come up with solutions so he's not melting down as much. He has a lot of free video lectures at
http://www.livesinthebalance.org/walking-tour-parents
or you can read his books Lost at School and The Explosive Child.

Maybe you could make a social story with him about what you'd like him to do and how this is positive? A social story explains, simply and briefly, and is positive, and although it sounds like he knows right from wrong, they can work really well when a child is stuck and there is confusion in the child's mind about why things are as complicated as they are.

I think the more appropriate translation for the joking behavior you described in your follow up is "desperately trying to fit in." That is very different from seeking attention. Usually our kids are smart enough to know they are different, but lack the ability to understand why and how to cure it. So, they study and observe but because of their impairment, come up with a totally inappropriate answer. Communicating with your child at a level he can understand is the going to be the best way to solve it. He believes he once observed someone telling jokes like that and being accepted, so he uses it. What he doesn't realize is that he probably missed a lot of important things when he was making that observation, and also that what other kids like and accept changes so fast that it is highly unlikely to ever work for him.

I suggest trying a simple conversation with him. An open, trusting, "no, you are not in trouble" one. When you see that kind of behavior, ask if you can talk to him for a little while off to the side. Then ask him, "I'm curious, why do you want to tell jokes like that?" He'll probably say something like, "they are funny." But follow up, do an autopsy: "did you think it is funny?" "what makes it funny?" "what makes you think the other kids think it is funny?" "what do their faces look like right now?" "Do you know that people sometimes have an embarrassed laugh, which is different from an honest one?" And so. Really break it down.

This is all a flip side to the same obsession you saw with the teacher's behavior chart: he wants to get it right, NEEDS to get it right, but has no idea how.

Is there much time when he is just home and relaxing with you or his mom and not having other children or family around? He needs that, you know; a chance to completely decompress. As in much more time that he is "free" than time he is not. And "free" is time to act strange, yell, move in weird ways, and do whatever it takes to shake off the stress he has built up for the day trying to function in a world that completely overwhelms and confuses him. Home needs to be his free place, where he can be as odd, withdrawn, and physical as he needs to be (yes, most of us long ago "child" proofed our homes to make them more appropriate for kids who pace, slam, grab, rearrange, etc). What the others have written is true, and all these things need to be looked at from a different angle. It really will improve things for you, it really will.

One of thought patterns I'm having to change is how I view my kid's behavior. I think I've had the default thought that my kid acts up because I'm a lousy parent, inconsistent with discipline, etc. And it's stressful, because my kid's behavior is reflection on me, so I want my kid to behave correctly. And it's stressful if he does it at home and not in public, because why do outside people get the benefit of good behavior when I don't. Hardly seems fair.

But I think that is the wrong mindset. My kid behaves the way he does for a reason, and it's most probably not willful disobedience/disrespect to make me look bad. My job is to get to the root of the reason, and address that to hopefully improve the behavior. Or accept the behavior that is actually beneficial, even though it sure looks like disobedience/disrespect on the outside, or channel that behavior into an appropriate manner/venue.

Not sure if I made since. It short, it's about framing it not as a discipline issue, but a symptom issue, I guess.

I mention this because my DH really struggles with this (and me, too somewhat), taking S1's behavior as a personal affront. Like he's doing something that needs consequences, when in reality he's just being ASD.

I want to add one more thing, to address in advance a common misconception I've encountered when talking about changing how you view behaviors and react to them. You are not going to disable your child by accepting and understanding his needs. You aren't going to fail him, and or become "one of those" parents who think the world has to accept everything annoying your child might do. It is a starting point. You have to go backwards before you can go forwards. You have to dismantle all the expectations and assumptions that have overwhelmed him and that he is not capable of meeting so you can establish a trust and understanding with him. He needs to know that you really do care about hard some things are for him, and that you have an accurate sense of what he can and cannot do. Right now he probably considers himself mostly doomed to failure, and that no one (not even his family) really understand him. Or he is sure he is complying when you don't think he is. But once you've reestablished that trust, you can push him to work on things, and he'll be coming at the skills with a much better bag of tools.

The kids we're raising on this forum have all seen huge improvements after we turned our parenting on its head. Not only are our kids happier, but we are happier, and the kids are functioning and achieving in the outside world better.

Forget timelines about what anyone feels your son should be able to do when, and live in the moment, adapt to the moment, figure out what is going on and help him deal with it. Never be afraid to take the time to go backwards out of fear that you will run out of time to go forwards; those steps backwards are essential to staying on track moving forward.

Amen to both the above posts.

I had both misconceptions, have overcome them, and now have a relatively independent teen who, with some slight bumps, is successful in school and has friends. We did go very far backwards (in 4th grade he would call me whenever he'd lost or forgotten something, and I would drive over to the school with it for him.) but since then we have come so far forwards that he's very, very close to his neurotypical peers.

I'm glad I found this thread. My son is quite high-functioning in many respects, so I think my wife and I have drifted toward seeing his instances of "bad behavior" through an NT lens. We need to get back to looking for triggers, as well as stop trying to normalize his attachment to his obsessions.

I just want all of the parents on this thread to stop for a moment and give themselves a hug and a pat on the back for a job well done. Parenting and ASD child is the most analytically challenging thing that I have ever done, and I was a math major at an Ivy League School!! Every day, we all sift through data, try to determine relationships, and formulate and test hypotheses. We are WORKING here!

Our children are on paths to reach their potential because of our efforts. That means something.