Neurotypical seeking advice about specific problem

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First of all, let me start by saying I am not a parent. The issue has to do with one of my peers (we are in college). The reason I am posting this here is because this seemed like the closest forum for neurotypical people to discuss autism. I did not want to invade any space intended for people with ASD.

That being said, I would appreciate advice on how I can sensitively handle this situation. It is two years ongoing.

Two years ago, a student joined a club that me and my friends are members of. So we welcomed him in but gradually he began making a lot of people, especially females, uncomfortable. He would follow them, comment on their bodies, etc. We confronted him about it and he told us he has Asperger's. Ok, we think, we'll be really specific about what he's doing and explain to him why it makes us uncomfortable.

But when we explained to him, he would apologize, tell us he has Asperger's...and repeat the behavior. Eventually we became firmer and colder, which made him push more. He hung out with us more, followed us more, just generally made us feel like he was forcing his presence on us. I told him that this was making us more uncomfortable because it felt like he was trying to become our friends just by being around us, even though he had already made a lot of us uncomfortable (two of those people have ASD too). He said, "oh, that's not true. The great thing about Asperger's is that I don't feel any social pressure at all." Based on everything I read about ASD and what my friends w/ ASD confirmed later, this is untrue but I am Nt so I didn't call him out on it. (Clarifying: in the context of our conversation, it sounded like he meant he doesn't care about making friends or belonging, but I could have misconstrued what he meant.)

I haven't spoken to him for a few months but one of my friends told me but he has been trying to report me and te club to our school. He asked one of my friends (who he only met once before) to confirm to authorities that my friends and I have been leading a campaign against him. He recently messaged me threatening to report me to my job, claiming I discriminated against him because of his race (which I didn't...I never even saw him at my job.)

I know that this behavior is not typical of ASD. What I want to know is how can I handle this while being sensitive to his ASD? I thought explaining to him his behaviors would be fair, but then he didn't stop. I don't know what else to do. He is very reactionary and defensive. He gets too upset when people aren't 100% loving to him, but after so many chances, I don't think we owe him a more.

Last edited by NoTAhelp on 05 Jun 2014, 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

I think it would make more sense for you to ask ASD people for advice on how to be sensitive to ASD. It is not considered an invasion of the forum here. Many people join and ask these sorts of questions.

Definitely post this on the general discussion forum. You'll get a lot of advice!

Ok, thank you!

You can ask a moderator to move this post rather than creating another.

He's hiding behind ASD.

Its irrelevant that he has it. He knows its not proper to be making those comments.

If hes trying to get you reported and into trouble the best thing you can do is write down a statement and present it to the university staff that handles student issues (aka HR for students). If you can get the other students that witnessed his improper behavior (aka the girls) have them sign it as well.

If you don't and he does succeed in pushing a complaint against you, you will be up against the bureaucratic power of disability services and you will do so on your own. If you put your statement forward first in writing then your own student services 'HR' will take care of any complaints coming from disability services...because it will be you, witnesses and paper trail.

Actually, it is exactly how my ASD son behaves, though he is a child and the person about whom you are speaking is an adult. Minus the sexual overtones, of course.




A lot of people with ASD don't feel social pressure because they don't notice or aren't able to interpret the facial expressions, body language, and verbal hints that suggest others disapprove of them. I imagine that is what he meant. Please remember that each person with ASD experiences it somewhat differently. You can't use anecdotal evidence from one or two people with ASD to understand ALL people with ASD.

Also, if you are looking to exclude people with ASD from this conversation, you are in the wrong place. There are quite a few parents here who have ASD themselves. That may boggle your mind, but it's so. I'm one of them.

It seems like there's pressure right now on colleges to create a safe environment. There may be a policy in place about the behavior you are describing that you can follow where staff meet with him and advise him about limits of acceptable behavior.

No, I did not mean to exclude people with ASD from the conversation; what I meant was, I did not want to post this in a forum that was strictly designated for people with ASD to talk about their own lives and experiences. I was hoping for perspectives of people with ASD--I just did not want to do so in a forum where that wouldn't be welcome or wanted.

1. Sometimes people with Asperger's can get a bit paranoid. He may really think you are leading a campaign against him. The threat he made was probably in retaliation against this (perceived) campaign against him. Or, it could be that he just doesn't like you and doesn't understand that he shouldn't make threats. That is to say, he understands he's not supposed to threaten people but doesn't understand why it's a big deal if he does.

2. From his perspective it probably seems as if you and the other club members stopped being his friends for no reason at all. And it almost certainly isn't the first time he's had that experience. Try to put yourself in his shoes and imagine going through life being constantly rejected and rebuffed by people for no reason that you can discern. Is it surprising that he is angry and frustrated?

3. If you haven't spoken to him for months, it's probably best to just continue that way.

Reporting the club to the school for discrimination is an aggressive action, and is more than having hurt feelings, IMO. Assuming that your account is true, you have to use the channels at the school that are available to you to dispute this and document what has been/is occurring. Even if Yippy Skippy is right about why he's so upset, that doesn't give him the right to jeopardize your future. It's his issue to deal with, and it sounds like you have tried to give him feedback in the best way you know how. I'd wash my hands of it and focus on protecting myself. You're not responsible for fixing all of the hurt the world has dealt him.

-NT mom of two ASD toddler boys.

Or he could be a manipulative liar with some other problem altogether.

I am embarrassed to admit that there have been times when I have been oblivious to social
Pressure. But when someone explained the situation, I was not indifferent to the idea that I was widely perceived negatively for my actions and I modified my behavior as a result.

But ASD is heterogenous. This guy may be unable
to function. That doesn't give him carte Blanche.

Double post

Last edited by Adamantium on 05 Jun 2014, 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

I've been oblivious to social pressure too. And I was pretty awkward when I was in my 20's. And I was inclined to think that, if I repeated myself long enough, people would understand my intent. But this kid is over the top. He's a whiny, creepy, entitled little twerp. He's a jerk. He's hiding behind Asperger's, using it for an excuse why no better can be expected of him and he doesn't have to learn.

Any of us could have made the initial mistake: Getting too close, following people (maybe trying to get up the nerve to speak to them??), making inappropriate comments (I grew up with my dad making all kinds of dirty jokes, but he did take the trouble to explain to me that there were ALL KINDS of circumstances where it wasn't appropriate).

There is a big difference between, "I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was inappropriate. Um, I have Asperger's, I didn't realize it was inappropriate. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be a creep. I'm really sorry." and what you say he did. I have to pull my feet out of my mouth and apologize all the time; sometimes I have to do it with the same behaviors over and over and over again. "I'm sorry I acted like a jackAspie again, honey." But it sounds like this kid doesn't plan on making any effort to learn better.

It's true that, for most of us, some things just aren't going to be worth the huge amount of effort it takes to "act right." There are autistic things I will always do-- laugh to loud, tend to monologue when I feel remotely comfortable in a situation, sound funny, fail to make perfect eye contact unless I'm thinking really hard about it, misremember stupid things. But there's a difference between "not worth the effort" and "not making an effort."

It sounds like he's not making an effort. Which, if I sound unforgiving, well, I've got a long and sometimes messed-up story of tying myself in knots trying not to be THAT Aspie. Quite a lot of days, I feel old before my time for the effort I've put in. I've done some things I regret for that-- like selling my personhood for, basically, nothing-- but mostly I think I've just done my job.

I don't have a whole lot of patience for people who won't do theirs.

I don't have a whole lot of patience for bullying behavior, either. Which is EXACTLY what threatening to turn you in for discrimination is (at least, if your story is true as you tell it).

You did EXACTLY the right thing in being very specific about the behavior and explaining why. The ONLY thing, IMO, you could have done better is ask him what he was TRYING to achieve and give him some examples of alternative behavior. That would have been really, really sweet-- but that's also what therapists get paid to do, so don't beat yourself up or feel bad about it. Just file it away for next time.

And yes-- do what Dantac said about his threats. Whether they're empty or not. I have had false accusations made against me too-- it goes a lot better if the people in authority already have reasons to believe they're false.

I am an undiagnosed aspie for what it is is worth:

There is a big difference between acting a certain way b/c you don't know better, and acting that way after people point out that they do not like it.

I have done socially stupid things and then am embarrassed when it is pointed out--but I am mild, and my son (who is 8 ) does not seem to get embarrassed, or at least not yet. There is a range, and of course one acquires new abilities as one gets older.

Looking back with hindsight, I have always gravitated towards being friends with undiagnosed male aspies, and the vast majority were cool. Some I ended up dating; some were friends. Some would get very defensive if rejected romantically. (Sometimes I did not know that was in play-which is a separate communication issue.) In any event, just b/c a guy is on the spectrum does not give him license to intentionally use it as an excuse to be a jerk. I am an old and predate the mass diagnoses of today, but I am sure at least a couple of the real jerky ones would have played that card if they had it.

He probably joined your group hoping to make friends and meet girls, which by itself is fine. However, I get the feeling that his expectations were unrealistically optimistic in the romantic and/or sexual departments, and he is taking his failure out on you and your friends. That is a social cognitive thing he needs to get straightened out, but that is not your job.

TL:DR
I would go through the proper channels through your school, and explain to your workplace that you have a weird stalker. The Asperger's part is only relevant to me in that if the school is aware, maybe they could have him meet with someone qualified to get him to understand that he doesn't have a right to make others uncomfortable and that he is not going to get action that way.

You have already been as sensitive as you could be, initially. Aside from you actually explaining that you can't make friends or get girls by being creepy, I don't know how much more clear you could have been.

Edited to delete an unintended emoticon.

I think you need to drop the NT verbiage, which he may be misconstruing.

For example, instead of telling him that his behavior is making you uncomfortable, tell him that it is inappropriate to come so close and / or follow someone when they walk away from an interchange. Agree with him to a polite way to remind him each and every time he breaks the rule. Hand signals or light touches can be effective there.

Second, I would not talk to him about how this is not a way to make friends, keep it strictly to what the social rules are. For example, "I know you like to spend time with us outside of the club meetings, but if we are going to do that, we all have to want to. Feel free to say "hello," but unless someone is actively encouraging you to stay, the social rule is that you don't hang on." (He will probably then get into a discussion about how to know if someone is actively encouraging him to stay).

Note that you DO have to be open and accepting when he is at club meetings and events. You can try to keep him out of your personal space (as discussed above), but you can't keep him from talking or hanging out. If talking far too long and out of turn is a problem, that can be handled by hand signals (pragmatic speech is a common issue with ASD). But be careful to go out of your way to accept him at club meetings and events. This is your defense against any allegations he makes towards the club. Start keeping notes and documentation to support your side.

What you do not have to do is socialize outside of the club, although obviously you should be sensitive and polite.

I do think this guy uses his ASD as an excuse, but I don't know if that is conscious behavior or not. These interactions can be very difficult because a lot of people with ASD get some pretty odd ideas in their heads, and misunderstand a lot of the messages given them when people try to be polite (and take them even worse when people are not trying to be polite).

My son is ASD and it has been interesting to hear him talk about a new kid, more severely ASD, who has gotten involved in one of his activities. He gets upset at the kid because he can see the kid stepping way out of bounds and getting his friends upset. We've talked a lot about how to help guide this new kid, but the kid is having a very hard time integrating the information. Still, the group is committed to accepting everyone, and no one is giving up. Sometimes you do have to remember the person doesn't intend harm, accept their presence, and work on teaching them how to be better company.

The flip side is that sometimes ASD can cause obsessiveness, and it is possible this guy is interested in one of the members for much more than friendship, to the point of being unable to follow the rules you have set. You may want to ask him point blank about that, because things will get a lot trickier if that is the case, and you will need to very carefully select the next steps. If you do ask him, and find out that he interested in someone, hold back on response until you've gotten further advice. Just tell him, "thank you for being honest with me. Let me think about how to handle this."