How to approach another parent about counseling?

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How would you go about this? I am not very tactful at times, and the guy I'm going to be talking to knows this because he knows me very well, but I'd like to put things as nice as possible to him, because it's a sensitive subject. I need advice on what to say please.

Here is what happened. You all know about my neighbor and friend who killed herself a few months ago. She left a husband and daughter at home. Her other kids are grown and moved out and the daughter is almost 18 now and about to be a senior in high school. I check on them from time to time, and yesterday the daughter talked to me, very upset still over her mother. Still very much raw and hurting. The problem is that her dad hasn't taken her to any type of counseling at all. Not even once. She hasn't even talked to the school counselor and didn't want to at the time but now she realizes she needs to see somebody about it. The problem is, she doesn't want to ask her dad to take her because she's trying to make things as easy on him as possible and not make him worry. I told her I'd talk to him for her and she was good with that, but how should I put it? I want to just say "You need to take that child to the psychiatrist and while you're at it you need to see him too. Neither one of you are coping with this very good and he can help, that's his job." but he may not take to that to well, he's the type of guy who thinks women shouldn't tell men what to do, and while we get along, he doesn't like me all that much because I'm pushy and mouthy.

I can take her somewhere myself if he won't do it, but I'd like for him to take her and also be part of her therapy. How should I phrase it?

This is not the answer you want, but here it goes:

If you think the girl's well-being is stable enough so she can hold off until school starts, she might start with the school counselor. If the school counselor suggests family counseling (especially if the counselor is a man ) it may hold more weight than coming from you. I am not saying it is right, but just to be pragmatic about it.

I just don't think there is much to be gained by you talking about this to someone like what you describe.

Whether you bring it up or his daughter does, that won't make a difference in terms of how much worrying he does. If that is the only objection his daughter has to her telling him herself; she might be able to bring it up to him. He is more likely to be persuaded by her than you as he may perceive you as being a busy-body---if I am reading between the lines of what you said, right.

Describe to the father a similar situation from your life where some counseling helped you. Then, ask him if he has considered something like that for himself or his daughter. I would point out the good parts of counseling, and remind him that it doesn't mean that he and his daughter are crazy and need years of therapy. The kind of counseling you probably are recommending is just the once or twice kinda of talking it out. He might be afraid that it is a lot more complicated than it is.

I like the above, and also conversation points like:
1. Very few people cope as well internally with this sort of thing as it appears on the outside; that is why it is always good to at least try some counseling.
2. Teenagers can be very fragile. They put on a brave face and try to cope on their own, but they don't actually have the tools for it. Even if they thought at one point they didn't need counseling, there is a good chance down the road that they will realize it probably would be a really good idea.
3. It is normal to need some counseling after this sort of thing; no one needs to go it alone, or just with the help friends and family. Professionals can be a huge help.

'She talked to me the other day. She wants to talk with a counselor-like person, and she said she was fine with me talking with you . . . '

Please trust your gut instincts regarding this. If you don't envision a relatively brief, respectful conversation going well, then perhaps follow through by going back to the daughter. Don't run down the father, but you can tell her that you and him just don't get along well.

And the older adult children might be an additional resource, right?

I'd use a light touch and very much think of the situation in terms of a process because . . .

A lot of counselors are crappy anyway!

Honest to gosh, my personal experience with mental health professionals is 1-4.

Someone here at WrongPlanet actually had someone with a Master's or PhD literally tell them, You can't have Asperger's if you've had at least one friend in your life. I mean, really. It boggles the imagination. This so-called professional is less capable than a random bartender or a random hair stylist.

In addition, it's kind of the belief that the professional norm is that you must be an emotional cipher. So whereas a co-worker can say, Oh, Jesus, that's so serious, I'm so sorry. And mean it, and have a real human response and a real human reaction. Somehow this is viewed as 'unprofessional.' And the result is that the mental health professional sits there like a cardboard cut-out, loads of intellectualizing and summarizing, that's what they're good at, but it's like they've truncated the whole emotional side of their reaction.

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Other possibilities include:

A priest, minister, or other religious leader. And I say this as a good agnostic! Just that they may be better than the average psychologist.

Maybe some kind of Asian practitioner, for example, I think there's a lot of wisdom in zen.

Maybe, maybe someone who does Asian bodywork, for example, maybe someone who combines just a little bit of talking with holding your back and breathing, something like this.

And if you do go the route of using a Western style counselor or psychologist, please be patient, because you may have to go through several, to find one fair to middling.

I agree with AardvarkGoodSwimmer, just briefly and state what happened and that his daughter said she was fine with you telling him. I don't know him though, if you think he would be upset or in denial his daughter needed help, then maybe you should go back to the daughter and try to find her other help options. You know the family.

I wouldn't tell him he needed counseling though, it muddies the message. Some people are very sensitive about needing help and you don't want to risk letting that interrupt his hearing that his daughter needs help. The message is simply his daughter needs help and she wants him to know. You are just the messenger. After she starts getting help and if he is open you can bring up the idea about him getting help or maybe even tip toe into it with family counseling.

It must be a very hard time for him and I am sure he is very worried about his daughter. It is so kind of you to look after them.

The daughter has asked for your help, the father has not. I would only suggest counseling for the daughter, in the wording that has already been stated above. I would not suggest that he needs it, even if he does. From the way you describe him, I don't think he'd take it well. But if you tell him that his daughter asked you speak on her behalf, that might get through to him for her sake.

This does change the read of the poker hand so to speak.

Please don't sugarcoat it as if the guy's some kind of invalid. He'll feel that, and he'll feel it as insulting.

Just be straightforward and matter-of-fact, and slightly on the brief side. This probably gives you the best chance.