9 YO still believes in Santa and Elf on the Shelf
24 Nov 2014, 7:59 pm
All at our encouragement. Problem is that the kids at school (who already think he's odd "weird") are really starting to bug him about it. He thinks in black and white (of course) and has stuck up for what he believes is right. We are concerned about the whole situation and know not what to do. I would like to get him through this "magical" year and talk to him prior to next year. I hate lying to him, though I know it's family tradition and (supposedly) harmless. It did not hurt my trust in my parents, but I'm not on the spectrum. Can any of you provide my wife and myself with much needed advice? Thank You- Paul
24 Nov 2014, 8:25 pm
Do you think he could be gently transitioned into the "we are all part of the magic" thinking?
For years I pointed out to my kids how different movies told different versions of the Santa story, and how Santa never looked exactly the same in the different places you saw him. Why? My explanation was that no one really knows what Santa looks like because no one ever sees him, and the movies are just stories.
Coupling that with concepts like playing Leprechaun on Saint Patrick's Day but keeping it secret, letting him see me create surprises for others, and practicing a few magic tricks, started to build the foundation for eventually telling him that magic comes from all of us, and we all play our part to keep it real and tangible. My son loves magic, still, at 17. He bridged pretty easy; his logic had him questioning so much of the Santa story specifics, but never the IDEA of Santa. So, we are all Santa; Santa is very real; he just doesn't wear a red suit. And no one can tell you what the real Santa looks like.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
24 Nov 2014, 8:25 pm
Did it hurt my trust with my parent? hmm. That's tough to answer. I think it definitely shatters any illusions I may have had that my parents would never lie to me, but I don't think that alone shattered my trust. Everyone is different though.
He will have to learn someday that santa, the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, etc. aren't real. So perhaps the longer you wait, the worse it gets?
25 Nov 2014, 9:47 pm
We still do the Santa thing at 9, but we are homeschooling and my son's current socialization is primarily with younger kids. If he were still in PS school and around kids his own age I would worry more. Right now, I don't have a transition plan, per se, but I don't think I would try to push through it once he starts asking questions. I am actually kind of wondering what to do if he doesn't start to have doubts about Santa in the next year or so, and how to come clean in that case.
I think once they ask questions, you have to be honest, or at least come out with some transitional sentiment like what DW_a_Mom suggested. The reason I say that, is that I would not want my child to feel lied to and feel resentful, which some Aspies do once they find out the truth. I want him to know we did it for the fun of it, not to make a fool of him or anything, and not feel lied to. If it weren't fun, we would not do it. He has no siblings, so we don't have that issue. (I don't remember if you have other children or not.)
26 Nov 2014, 3:45 pm
Who are the rotten kids who are spoiling the fun of Santa? Who are the rotten parents who aren't telling them not to?
My parents tell me that I was never a Santa true believer. I just seamlessly transitioned into straight up non-belief. One thing that helped my cousin (younger than I am) transition into non-belief was her inclusion in secret christmas traditions that we had.
My son apparently takes after me, he's 7 but we ditched Santa a while ago. Oh, we still have Santa, because I like Santa. But he only brings stocking stuffers. And is party of the 'magic of Christmas'. But when we had the discussion about Santa, I told him he was under absolutely strict instructions not to spoil it for anyone else and why it was a big deal to some kids.
I did draw the line at the tooth fairy. He told me there was no tooth fairy and then immediately demanded an extortionate amount of money for a small tooth. I told him "you don't play, I don't pay"
And what is Elf on the Shelf?
26 Nov 2014, 5:03 pm
...
And what is Elf on the Shelf?
I don't think it makes a child a "rotten kid." It depends on the reason. Some kids do it to be nasty and to show the other child up as immature, naive and ignorant, but this is not necessarily so. Some kids think of it as a truth-telling thing. Some kids come from a different cultural tradition and don't feel they should have to play along. They aren't going to view it as an adult would and may or not check with their parents before sharing, I don't know that it is every parent's responsibility to proactively forestall that by telling their kids to keep it a secret. I don't think kids would necessarily listen, either.
Disclaimer: I was one of those "rotten" kids and I really did not look at it spoiling other kids' fun. My parents did not believe in teaching about Santa and honestly were probably annoyed about having to explain it when I asked them about it, wanting to know why Santa did not bring me anything.
They were, I would guess, more focused on that then worrying about safeguarding other people's deal. I am not saying it was a great way of looking at it. Naturally, they should have figured I would be exposed to Santa, and should have been prepared with something.
We do Santa here, and while I would have been disappointed if the fun was truncated, I really would not have been pissed at the kid who told him, unless it was otherwise connected to being picked on for being immature. That may just be because of my own personal background, though.
...
"Elf on a Shelf is a toy/book product where you put the toy elf on a mantle or shelf so it can report to Santa if your kid/s are good or not. I think people use it to motivate good behavior. We did not do that, but it is pretty popular.
26 Nov 2014, 5:05 pm
...
And what is Elf on the Shelf?
"Elf on a Shelf" is a toy/book product where you put the toy elf on a mantle or shelf so it can report to Santa if your kid/s are good or not. I think people use it to motivate good behavior. We did not do that, but it is pretty popular.
...
I don't think it makes a child a "rotten kid." It depends on the reason. Some kids do it to be nasty and to show the other child up as immature, naive and ignorant, but this is not necessarily so. Some kids think of it as a truth-telling thing. Some kids come from a different cultural tradition and don't feel they should have to play along. They aren't going to view it as an adult would and may or not check with their parents before sharing, I don't know that it is every parent's responsibility to proactively forestall that by telling their kids to keep it a secret. I don't think kids would necessarily listen, either.
Disclaimer: I was one of those "rotten" kids and I really did not look at it spoiling other kids' fun. My parents did not believe in teaching about Santa and honestly were probably annoyed about having to explain it when I asked them about it, wanting to know why Santa did not bring me anything.
They were, I would guess, more focused on that then worrying about safeguarding other people's deal. I am not saying it was a great way of looking at it. Naturally, they should have figured I would be exposed to Santa, and should have been prepared with something. They told me it was a bunch of nonsense, which I duly reported to the class.
We do Santa here, and while I would have been disappointed if the fun was truncated, I really would not have been pissed at the kid who told him, unless it was otherwise connected to being picked on for being immature. That may just be because of my own personal background, though.
...
26 Nov 2014, 5:16 pm
The Elf is this little doll with a plastic head and a cloth body. It comes with a story book. The idea is that the Elf arrives at the home Dec. 1 (Thanksgiving night in our house). Each night it travels back to the North Pole to report on antics in the household (i.e., not so subtle attempt at behavior management). So each morning he/she is in a different location (except for our Elf - he's lazy). Kids can't touch the Elf, I forget why. It was created by a lady in my town. So it is very, very big where I live. Some folks do crazy things with their elves - snowball fights (with marshmallows), leaving tracks in the snow (flour left spread on the counter), etc. I'm not that creative with it. I can barely remember to move it each night.
Anyway, I have a 13 yo who still believes in Santa. His friends at school tell him he isn't real. His own younger brother tells him he isn't real, rather maliciously actually if the last conversation is anything to go by. Still he insists he believes Santa is real. All because 7 years ago, they wrote a note to Santa on Christmas Eve to leave with the cookies, and when they woke up, Santa had replied.
However, I think secretly he knows he isn't, because last year, when he opened his gift labeled from Santa (the big gifts come from Santa in our house), his first exclamation was, "Thanks, mom!" Or maybe his brain is on disconnect between knowing Mom buys the presents and Santa's realness or lack thereof. This year, I'm keep telling him he has too many things on his list and he needs to prioritize, and he keeps saying it doesn't matter, because Santa will make him the ones I don't buy. At this point I don't even think me telling him point blank Santa isn't real will do much good.
Good news is apparently he is immune to ridicule about it, though.
27 Nov 2014, 12:12 pm
My 14 year old daughters finally figured it out this past Easter. My aspie daughter really thought it was all real until then. And my NT daughter says that she knew for a while, but didn't want me to stop filling stockings or putting out egg hunts. I never thought I would have to go through the whole thing for so long, but I was waiting for them to say they knew it wasn't real. They would ask me if I believed and I would say yes and Santa fills my stocking too, so they believed too. I am so glad they know now because now that they go to bed so late, it was hard to stay up and sneak around the house filling stockings and/or putting out treats to be found for Easter.
I am not sure why they believed so long - maybe because they go to school with people of different nationalities and religions, so they knew different people believe different things.
I figured they would be mad that I had lied to them, but they were actually happy to have had that magical time for so long.
27 Nov 2014, 4:38 pm
No it did not hurt my trust in my parent when a friend told me Santa was not real and it was our parents who are Santa. I was actually relieved because that explained why i didn't get everything for Christmas and why Santa would make mistakes like the time I wanted The Little Mermaid fish tank and one of my best friends got it instead so I thought it was mine and he gave it to her by mistake when he delivered presents. My little brother wanted a Sonic doll two years later and one of his friends got it instead. I was nine when I found this out. Then I thought if Santa isn't real, then it must be our parents that fill our stockings, they must also fill our baskets too and hide them, they must be putting money under our pillows. But then I thought the reason why I didn't get many presents after that was because I stopped believing in him so I thought if I lie to myself and pretend he is real, I would get more presents even though my brothers didn't get as many either. I learned from my parents to not buy our kids so many Christmas presents every year or they will be expecting it every year and can turn into brats when they don't get as many presents because your income changed or something. I can remember how stressful it would be every year about what I was going to get for Christmas and how many presents I will be getting all because we got less than I did when I was little so I will not do the same to my own children.
Every kid is different and so is every aspie child. My brothers were not affected at all while I was.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
27 Nov 2014, 4:43 pm
...
And what is Elf on the Shelf?
I don't think it makes a child a "rotten kid." It depends on the reason. Some kids do it to be nasty and to show the other child up as immature, naive and ignorant, but this is not necessarily so. Some kids think of it as a truth-telling thing. Some kids come from a different cultural tradition and don't feel they should have to play along. They aren't going to view it as an adult would and may or not check with their parents before sharing, I don't know that it is every parent's responsibility to proactively forestall that by telling their kids to keep it a secret. I don't think kids would necessarily listen, either.
Disclaimer: I was one of those "rotten" kids and I really did not look at it spoiling other kids' fun. My parents did not believe in teaching about Santa and honestly were probably annoyed about having to explain it when I asked them about it, wanting to know why Santa did not bring me anything.
They were, I would guess, more focused on that then worrying about safeguarding other people's deal. I am not saying it was a great way of looking at it. Naturally, they should have figured I would be exposed to Santa, and should have been prepared with something.
We do Santa here, and while I would have been disappointed if the fun was truncated, I really would not have been pissed at the kid who told him, unless it was otherwise connected to being picked on for being immature. That may just be because of my own personal background, though.
...
"Elf on a Shelf is a toy/book product where you put the toy elf on a mantle or shelf so it can report to Santa if your kid/s are good or not. I think people use it to motivate good behavior. We did not do that, but it is pretty popular.
I remember when I told my mom about Santa not being real, she told me to not tell my brothers or it will upset them and she told me to not ever tell the other kids at school or it will upset them and not tell any other kids or it will upset them.
If it's hadn't told me this, I may have gone around telling others because I would have thought they would be happy to hear he isn't real because it would explain the mistakes Santa did and why they didn't always get what they wanted for Christmas. I would have assumed they would have felt the same way I felt and then not understand why they are so upset.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
27 Nov 2014, 11:04 pm
At that age I definitely still believed in Santa. Around 10-11 I started to realize that although Santa wasn't actually real, as in the big fat man, but that the SPIRIT of Santa was real - the spirit of giving and magic and general Christmas spirit. My parents did "do" Santa, but I didn't lose any trust in them when I realized it wasn't real - Santa is a part of the culture, it's not like my parents created some huge intricate lie that only I was a part of. Ya know? Heck, I still get a Santa gift if I spend Christmas back home! I do think that the fact that Santa brought ONE gift to our house (and the stocking) helped me not be confused. We wrote a list and Santa picked one thing to bring. In some houses, Santa brings all the gifts and I can see how that might be more confusing or more of a let down.
As for how to work on this with your son, you can see how he does as the season approaches next year. If he seems open to seeing it as more of a tradition/spirit of Christmas thing, then introduce that. If he likes culture or historical prospective, maybe read about the history of Santa and where it came from and how the rest of the world celebrates in similar ways.
30 Nov 2014, 1:46 am
...
And what is Elf on the Shelf?
I don't think it makes a child a "rotten kid." It depends on the reason. Some kids do it to be nasty and to show the other child up as immature, naive and ignorant, but this is not necessarily so. Some kids think of it as a truth-telling thing. Some kids come from a different cultural tradition and don't feel they should have to play along. They aren't going to view it as an adult would and may or not check with their parents before sharing, I don't know that it is every parent's responsibility to proactively forestall that by telling their kids to keep it a secret. I don't think kids would necessarily listen, either.
Disclaimer: I was one of those "rotten" kids and I really did not look at it spoiling other kids' fun. My parents did not believe in teaching about Santa and honestly were probably annoyed about having to explain it when I asked them about it, wanting to know why Santa did not bring me anything.
They were, I would guess, more focused on that then worrying about safeguarding other people's deal. I am not saying it was a great way of looking at it. Naturally, they should have figured I would be exposed to Santa, and should have been prepared with something.
We do Santa here, and while I would have been disappointed if the fun was truncated, I really would not have been pissed at the kid who told him, unless it was otherwise connected to being picked on for being immature. That may just be because of my own personal background, though.
...
"Elf on a Shelf is a toy/book product where you put the toy elf on a mantle or shelf so it can report to Santa if your kid/s are good or not. I think people use it to motivate good behavior. We did not do that, but it is pretty popular.
I remember when I told my mom about Santa not being real, she told me to not tell my brothers or it will upset them and she told me to not ever tell the other kids at school or it will upset them and not tell any other kids or it will upset them.
If it's hadn't told me this, I may have gone around telling others because I would have thought they would be happy to hear he isn't real because it would explain the mistakes Santa did and why they didn't always get what they wanted for Christmas. I would have assumed they would have felt the same way I felt and then not understand why they are so upset.
My son is not especially materialistic, and never asks for expensive or even for specific things, so I never had to worry about this like other parents; but I wonder how parents handle that some kids will get what they asked for, and other kids won't. Poorer kids or parents that are more fiscally prudent get less stuff/less costly stuff than other kids. I wonder how that makes kids feel? At least with birthday presents a kid knows it is because of the parents/finances, but I wonder if they feel bad when Santa gives them worse stuff than other kids, especially if those other kids seem naughty. My parents never would have been able to manage explaining that. Do most kids think the presents were accidentally switched?
That's what you get for thinking it's cute to deceive your child in the first place. Magical thinking is not harmless.
I struggled with this a little bit, as my parents were very much in this camp, though for some reason they were OK with the tooth fairy. I don't know that I ever was expected to really believe in it, though, and I always got less money than the other kids, so it wasn't hard to see that it was my parents doing it, which is why I wondered how kids processed disparities from Santa.
In the end, not knowing much about AS until my son, I thought that I had missed out on the fun, and so thought my son should get to have it. Most kids seem to like it, and not resent it later when they find out.
I always thought my parents were weird for thinking about that. I think my son is not the type who will resent it when he finds out. It is more like I think it will be hard for him to figure it out, because his mind seems to especially enjoy the magical thinking, and while intelligent, he is not very skeptical, if that makes sense.
30 Nov 2014, 8:34 am
I wouldn't think anything was wrong with it if it were always understood to be an act. Say if you told your kid Santa was here, then your Dad goes into another room and comes back dressed as Santa. I bet kids like make-believe more than belief, because it would involve genuine interaction with their family. My little brother got such a thrill when he tried to amuse us by suddenly showing up in a costume, or my fathers suit, or my mom's dress at 8 years old.
