Grandbaby misbehavior. Suggestions?

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What do you do about a grandbaby that just won't mind at all? She's almost 5 and never had any discipline whatsoever. Her mother is some kind of crazy and her daddy was raised right and has tried to teach her but they haven't been together in a while and the relationship wasn't very good at all to begin with. this about her.

My son is living here right now and my grandbaby comes to stay for several days at a time, but when she comes it's like she's forgotten everything she was taught. I've raised four kids and this isn't just regular misbehavior. I seriously think she isn't getting any home training at all, and my son has told me that her mother doesn't do much in the way of discipline and teaching. This isn't just regular mother in law dislike and blame of the ex, everybody who knows that girl says she's got a whole lot of problems.

I've just given up trying to teach her to act right when she comes here, pretty much. It's like jailing jello to a tree. My son says that he knows for a fact that her mother says terrible things about us to her and has told her directly not to listen to me. This isn't paranoid thinking, I've been told this by him.

So, does anybody have any suggestions for what to do? They may end up going to court for custody of her for various reasons. I'm encouraging him to do that and more than willing to help raise her here if he needs it. What do ya'll suggest I do?

when my son's SO decided motherhood was too confining, she left him with a 2yr old & a full-time job & i decided i would do whatever it took to help my son. i've taken care of GB full-time now for almost a year, but just recently his mom has shown an interest in him & will have him 1-2 days a week & I've noticed similar issues like you describe.

as long as i am VERY consistent in reminding him that " at grandma's house, grandma is the boss of EVERYBODY!", he will typically knock it off after a few hours. it's almost like he is relieved that i am in control. it's hard at times because i want to be the grandma that gets to spoil him with cookies & toys..not the disciplinarian! & sometimes i just want to be lazy & i tell myself I'm getting too old for this..but i get a grip for his sake because that's what he needs right now. even if he doesn't like it!

I didn't see my grandbaby until a year and a half ago because of her mama's craziness so I'm starting late and with a big disadvantage. She had my son convinced that I was a monster too so he went without talking to me for a few years. He's apologized and that's straightened out and is ok now, but my grandbaby actually says "My Mama says I don't have to mind you!" or "No! I hate you! You're an evil old witch, my mama told me so!" and refuses to do anything at all. She throws fit after fit about everything.

The only way I can make her do anything is by spanking her with a switch and I'm certainly not going to do that constantly! THat would be horrible. I just mainly pick my battles and spank her when she's doing something harmful or destructive, which is about half the time. I do not want to be the "mean grandma" that she can't stand. My MIL was overly strict about ridiculous stuff with my kids and they never liked her much and I don't want mine to feel that way about me. However, I'm not going to constantly only feed her junk food or McDonalds, and never wash her and let her stay up all night and smart off to everybody and call people names for telling her no.

If he goes to DHR tomorrow and reports the mother and ends up with custody and they live here, then I'll be able to have her here full time and she will have consistancy and over time her behavior will get better. I know it's going to take some consistancy and time, but it's not just me she's like this with. She's never been around other kids and she's spoiled rotten. Her other grandmother has only one child and when that baby was born (my son's baby mama) she was on drugs and missed a lot of her daughters childhood cause of the drugs, so she spoils the grandbaby now, I suppose to make up for the time lost with her own child back then. Thats understandable, but it's also not good for the baby. I don't know what kind of problems she's going to have when she starts school but she's sure enough going to have some!

So, my choices are to keep on like I've been doing or be stricter when she is here. Of course right now her mama is mad at my son and is keeping the baby from him because of that. And he's still in love with that lying, ugly, ho, I can't imagine that. However, he really needs to get this custody to at least give that baby a chance in life. Being raised by that mama, she might as well be raised by wolves. Hell, wolves would do a better job probably.

I know next to nothing about raising an NT kid, but given what is going on maybe setting up familiar routines for when she is with you and adding some that are fun (I would say special interest, but you can probably do NT fun kid things, here) will make it easier.

There is only so much you can do to combat that kind of inconsistency. You will still have to battle it if your son gets full time custody if she gets unsupervised visitation b/c she will still be the fun parent. albeit for smaller amounts of time.

If NT kids at that age are still distractable (My ASD kid was, but I have not looked at an NT kid developmental handbook in a long time) You could try distraction from things that are likely to start a row and a fussy fit.

That is the best I can think of, for now.

Dont know if it will help but someone once told me that the sole motivator of any NT childs behaviour is attention good or bad ( i added the NT bit) so if you can catch them doing anything positive lavish praise and attention, anything negative ignor ( including not shouting, spanking or whatever) . I know it is when they are very difficult easier said than done, when they are quiet one just wants to leave them alone and not rock that boat but that is the time to give attention not when they are tearing the house apart.
It worked for my sister with a very challanging NT child and I do it with my own NT five year old, I hope it might work for you.
In my opinion spanking doesn't teach anything in the long term that is useful apart from resentment and fear, but is is so hard to manage such a tricky child.
A

You need to have your son tell her to sit in a corner when she violates the rules, and then hold her there if necessary. At his house, and at your house. You can't hit the kid or advise him to hit her, especially if there's a potential court case in the future that will determine who gets the kid and who pays alimony. As Grandma, you shouldn't have to be the bad guy. I imagine he's more pressed for time than you are, so it would probably be really helpful if you set up a chore wheel system for the kid and gave it to him and explained it to him. Try to fill her time at your house with routine.

Example:
Child attempts to come in the house with muddy shoes.
Your response: What do we do when we come in a house, Alice?
Her appropriate response: Oh yeah, we take off our shoes and hang up our coat.

If she doesn't understand why we do that, she can clean the muddy floor or help Grandma or dad clean it depending on her age and abilities. If she tries to resist, time-out facing the corner until she's ready to help.

Keep everything routine, from how we enter a home to what we do once we've entered.
Shoes come off, coat is hung, other people greeted.
Snack is consumed, homework is begun as the adult begins dinner.
She finishes homework, and an adult checks it while she sets the table.
Dinner is consumed.
If homework was successfully completed, off she goes to play or watch an approved program with an adult.
If homework was not successfully completed, you tell her she needs to try number 4 again or she forgot to do the other page of questions.
If you meet with resistance, tell her she can't leave until it's either completed or time for bed. If time for bed comes first, the other adults as well as her teacher will be informed. The implication is that the only way to escape the problem of every adult she knows getting on her case about homework is to do the homework.
Bedtime with a story of her choice, a glass of water, a lit nightlight and a boogeyman check if necessary, and a goodnight kiss.

One more thing: don't let the other adults in her life talk about her mother. She'll see everything for herself in time, but right now she needs a peaceful, clean, orderly retreat. Your home needs to be a home, first and foremost. It needs to be the place where everything is always the same, people don't gossip, and there's as little yelling as possible. Based on what you've told me, her mom's house will be the opposite. Judges care about that stuff.

She's only 4 right now and not in any preschool or daycare. She stays with her mother and when her mother works she stays with her other grandmother or the mothers bf or the mother takes her to work with her. My son lives here with us right now and if he gets custody he will stay here a while so I can help him with the baby.

Where I live, spanking is ok. I'm in a small town in the very rural Deep South. I know the judge fairly well and he would actually consider not spanking to be more abusive when the kid is very bratty than normal spanking. Of course going overboard either way isn't good, and it's what I want to avoid. Right now the problem is her willfully tearing up things, trying to do things just to piss us off that we have told her not to do, like letting my dogs out or breaking glass knicknacks or stealing and hiding things, drawing on the walls, etc. She will look right at you and do something like that. The other day she was coloring on a some posterboard in the den and I had told her what a good job she was doing and she looked up at me and said "Hhhmmmph!" and then reached over with her marker and started writing on the wall while looking directly at me! Well, she got a spanking for that.

She will refuse to eat anything except junk and when one of us tells her she's not getting junk or McDonalds she says "My Mama will get it for me". She won't even try a bite of something else. I've got four kids, all of them grown now and my youngest is 18 and a senior in high school, and I've dealt with picky eaters before, but this is ridiculous. She will refuse to eat to the point where my son gets worried and goes and gets her takeout. I told him to give it time and she will eat. We have mac and cheese and cereal and eggs and that kind of thing she likes but she just refuses to eat it because it's here. I understand him though, it's difficult to know what to do when it's your first baby and you're very young and haven't had any experience. My kids are all NT, except I do think my youngest son may have some AS like I do. He also had ADHD pretty bad.

Right now her mothers not letting her come over cause she's going through a crazy time again. Thats why my son's fed up and about to go to DHR. If he were to get custody and they lived here then I'm pretty sure I could do something about the behavior even with her visiting her mother. And no, we don't talk about her mother in front of her. That would just confuse her and pull her in all different directions. I'm pretty much the "bad guy" in her life right now because I'm the only one that makes her mind. My daughters also make her mind and don't put up with any of her antics. Honestly, nobody can even do anything with her like play with her or read to her or watch something on tv with her because all she does is throw a fit, hate everything that anybody but her daddy does for her, and keep repeating to us how much she hates us.

Sounds like she's testing you, testing the rules, testing the limits. She's probably doing it because something she thought she knew like Mommy and Daddy are married and will be together forever and ever just like Disney has kind of crumbled around her.

If it's OK where you live, and you're sure she's the kind of child it would help more than hurt, and it isn't you're ready and only solution to every problem, keep it in your arsenal.

Use the time out for when she's throwing her fits and acting in a really anti-social way. The reason sitting on a chair in the corner, unable to move and unable to speak to anybody works is because humans are generally social creatures. It's boring sitting there. She can't get any interaction from a wall. Hold her there if you have to, and I guess since it's acceptable where you live, swat her on the rear if she tries to leave before her time is up.

Honestly, a lot of what you're describing sounds very normal for a child whose parents are going through divorce. I've heard the exact same behavior described plenty of times in those circumstances.

The big problem here is really the McDonald's. Personally, I consider what the mom is doing with the McDonald's to be a form of abuse.

All I can think of for that one is this:
Example 1:
The child walks in on grandma and dad dad drinking a smoothie or other normal healthy fare.
Dad: "MMMMMMMmmmmmmmm! Wow, that's really good. That's just amazing."
Grandma: "Mmmmmhmmmm. It really did come out well. Delicious."
Continue exaggerating enjoyment until the child expresses an interest in trying some.
"Well, there isn't really much left. It's a special treat. Tell you what though, if you _____________, I'll give you a little bit."

Example 2:
Dad: You know what I haven't had in a long time, Grandma's pork chops with apple sauce. I'd do pretty much anything for those pork chops with apple sauce. Maybe if I ask her really nicely, she'll make some. Will you help me ask her?

Don't treat all your dishes like they're ordinary things. Treat, and have your son treat them like they're something special. Treat your banana bread like donuts and your meatloaf like a Whopper. Treat your smoothies like milkshakes.

Honestly, I've done all those things and more. Like I said, I've raised 4 children already and they were all very different from each other and so I had to use different tactics with each of them and change them up as they grew older. This child has just tried my patience so much farther than anything I've ever encountered. I honestly never seen a child act this way. My son's had some pretty rowdy and misbehaved friends that came over to play when they were little and some were really hard to deal with, and I used to babysit a little boy with severe ADHD and even he acted better than my grandbaby. My son agrees that her behavior is a problem but he's a softie with her and he doesn't want to be the "bad guy", although I've explained that being the bad guy for a few weeks or months is better in the long run because she won't remember that too well and it won't change her opinion of him.

I have just honestly never seen a child act this way. We have all played up the food issue with her, made out like other things were treats or so good we didn't want to share them with anybody, but she is still not interested at all. She refuses to even take a few bites. My youngest son was the pickiest eater I had ever seen and the most stubborn but even he would take a few bites of something new. I'd always make sure I served at least one dish that each child liked. That worked well because I like to serve meals with several side dishes, so everybody was happy. However, not even macaroni and cheese made here is acceptable to her! It's the same thing she gets at her other grandmother's house but she won't eat it.

This honestly makes all of us besides my son, not look forward to her visits. Everything is a huge battle and she's constantly displeased with every single thing here and does everything she can to disrupt and destroy everything. I don't want to just sit her down in her daddy's room to watch tv the whole time, but that seems to be the ONLY thing she wants to do, no matter what toys we have, or what crafts or activities we try to do with her. I'm just at my wits end.

I've honestly tried all the normal things, and none of these work at all on her.

I think I'd be playing the "I'm more stubborn than you are" game. And I'd tell the father that he absolutely cannot break and bring in the MacDonald's (not because the food is the end of the world, but because you have to show that you are always going to win this game).

Choose a limited number of rules that she absolutely must follow, no exceptions, and list them at the start of the weekend. Then watch her like a hawk to make sure she complies. If that hand with a pen reaches for the wall, you move it back to the paper and repeat the rule. Don't let her gain even an inch of advantage.

She can cry, she can scream, she can kick and punch the air, she can complain, she can call you names, but she cannot break any of the rules you set out and will be physically prevented from doing so if necessary. Forget the spankings, just keep moving her back to where she is allowed to be. Stay 100% in control and prove that you are, most definitely, more stubborn than she is. Living under this game is worse than a spanking, because there is no freedom, and all children are driven to show their free will. And the only way out of the game? Prove you will follow the rules.

I would not make having to eat a rule, by the way, just "the what she will not get to eat" part. She will live if she doesn't eat for two days, although I doubt she will last that long. Be sure to have some things available that you know she likes so that you aren't pushing the issue any further than you have to. Or ... just forget that rule altogether, permanently (which is what I would probably do with a child that isn't living with me full time). Or maybe the food issue can be used as leverage: if she can follow the other rules you've set, you will permanently cave on that one. I do think it has to be either/or, because she can't see any kinks in your wall of armor, so all of this trying to hold the rule and then having daddy eventually cave is the WORST way to play it.

Thanks so much for the ideas everybody. I'm going to try them, and even retry some of the ones I've used before. Of course not all at once and I'll give things time.

Her Mama completely disregarded her idea of not letting my son see the baby. Something came up and her and her boyfriend had people coming over so she dropped the baby off here for a week. Yes, she's here a week. I have uninterrupted time. My son minds well and I can keep him from going to get McDonalds if I make sure he knows the plan. He might feel bad but he won't if he knows if's for a reason.

Anyway, it's been a little busy today. I woke up with my youngest son bringing all his stuff into the house. He had moved out months ago and was living with his gf about a mile away. So, I'll post and let ya'll know how she's doing. I basically just let her stay in there and watch tv today and didn't ask her to do very much that she didn't want to do, although I dressed her, and brushed her hair and teeth even though she was screaming and putting up a fight. I just wanted to get that done and wasn't all that worried about cooperation right then. I asked twice and then just started dressing her. Like I said, I've never seen anything like this. You would have thought I was killing her or something. Then she refused to talk to me for a while.

I think your granddaughter must be really confused. On the one hand, her mother is telling her horrible things about you, that your an "evil witch" etc. On the other hand, her mother will gladly drop her off at your home under your care whenever it is inconvenient to have her in her own care. Little kids see things very black and white. If I was that little girl, I would be afraid to go to stay with someone my mother (who she has no choice but to trust on some level because she relies on her to take care of her) told me was evil. I would also feel very hurt that my mother would leave me with someone she told me was so horrible. I bet this brings up a lot of trust issues and uneasiness in this kid. In my opinion, it is abusive for her mother to keep saying these things to her yet drop her off. She probably (on a level she probably can't express) feels abandoned by her mom. To me, it makes sense that she acts so horrible at your place because 1. she is worried about what her mom told her about you, 2. she sees that you aren't a horrible witch and doesn't know whether to trust her instincts or her mother, which is very confusing and 3. feels loyal to her mom's "us against grandma" campaign and feels she must act out.

I hope this all gets ironed out in court and the mom learns to stop doing this to your granddaughter.

About kid who says mommy says X, Y, Z about you...or my parent does everything so much better..

My friend does foster care and this is a really common problem. The parent can be the biggest abusive meth head on the planet, and the kid will defend to the bitter end.

So when you need to get dear kid's shoes on, and she pulls mommy says you a b***h...

You say: I hear you. Get your shoes on.
Kid: I don't have to.
You: here's your flip flops (yes, they are a life saver to get a kid to go out with something on her feet. Bring the shoes/socks along in the car).

Kid: my mommy is the best! You suck!
You: Yes, she is the best. She gave birth to you. (or your blonde hair, something along these lines). You acknowledge mom/parent as person, and move on.

Kid: I eat Pop Rocks and Kool-aid for breakfast every day.
You: Here's your toast (whatever). If the kid doesn't eat, she'll eat at lunch.

My friend never says this is how we do it HERE. These kids are sharp enough to hear *here*, and the next statement is AT HOME...blah blah blah.
This friend does respite care before the child is placed in a long term residential treatment center. She'll get them for a week, and then off they go. The kids are always a sad hot mess. No boundaries. Anger management issues. Manipulative.

You set the boundaries, and don't argue. You don't take the manipulative comparison bait, and hold firm on boundaries. This kid has learned that the only way to engage people is to manipulate and act out. That is why she does it.

About spanking. I know down South, there are areas that still spank. The fact you spank would disqualify you from any sort of guardianship/adoption deal here where I live. Especially since I think the little charmer is smart enough, at 5, to pipe that up to mom, social worker or judge. All you need to do is leave a mark, and have someone find out.

My friend grew up in Mississippi, where everyone got a switch or a spank. She can't use it AT ALL, up here, and believe me, some of these kids can push every button where you would like to strangle them.

She leaves the room.

Remembers she's the adult and this is a child not a peer.

Regroup for round two of pulling privileges, and keeping calm.

Many of the techniques for low ASD kids will work for GD. Remember, this kid has no social skills and no boundaries.

Good luck!

Tawaki

I'm from the South, so I get the culture of beating children as an expectation. But in this case I think what you're doing is strongly counterproductive. This little girl's world sucks, it is chaotic and violent. All the messages she's getting are that she's a nuisance and a problem. I'm guessing hardly anyone is sitting with this kid and cuddling her and letting her know she's wanted. It's really no surprise that she's reacting negatively. Not only do small children not have the capacity to emotionally and physically regulate in the way that adults can, she's not seeing any adults model good emotional regulation. Mom neglects. Grandma beats - often without warning. You may think that it's clear that a beating would ensue from a particular action, but in her mind it's not. It's either unpredictable or she's assuming that she'll get a beating no matter what.

I'm not saying never spank. I will tell you now that you should NEVER, EVER, EVER hit a child with an implement.

I do spank my son. But I use a several step process taken from the time out model. There is a warning. There is an opportunity to correct behaviour (start doing something or stop doing something). Then there is follow-through if there's no correction. One smack. This method means that in actuality I don't spank very often - in fact, hardly ever. I can't remember the last time I did. Maybe once last year? I do not ever hit him without a warning and a count down. Usually I only have to warn, sometimes I have to get to the countdown. I never hit in anger. In 'anger' (say after a surprise bad behaviour), I remove him from the situation and withdraw privileges.

What I'm hearing from you is about discipline and training, like a circus dog. I'm also hearing resentment. I'm not hearing much here about love or concern. I can understand the frustration, but I urge you to find a different way to engage with this child.

I come from a broken home and I can identify with your grand daughter. It is extremely confusing for a small child to go from one household to another. The inconsistency of rules, norms and expectations can play havoc with a developing mind. It is extremely unfortunate that her mother is bad mouthing you to her. Kids do not need this drama.
I don't have kids or siblings so I cant offer much here except to say that I think its great that you're willing to be a part of her life and I think its important that you establish a relationship with her that she will warm to.
Differing values are hard to deal with in these situations and she is seemingly not getting good guidance from her Mom. I would suggest taking things slowly and trying to build up a relationship over time. And also bear in mind her confusion at these differing norms from people who she looks up to. She may not know where to put her trust.

I do sit with her and cuddle her and pay her attention. So does my son and my husband and her aunts and uncle. When she lets anybody and doesn't scream cause she's taken away from the tv. So, your guess was wrong. Weaning her off the tv is going to be another issue. We have to cut that back and get her doing other stuff. She's not interested in anything. She was interested in drawing and I got several big rolls of blank newspaper that I pull off long sheets of and she makes banners but today she decided to draw on my couch cushion. Thank God I bought washable markers. No more coloring for the rest of the day today, that's for sure. I try reading to her and telling her stories, but she's not interested in doing that with anybody. She wants her entertainment from the tv screen.

The way I spank her is the same way I spanked my kids. You spank when they do something dangerous or destructive, not just for annoying or for not eating or anything like that. You use other punishments for that, usually taking something away or time out or something along those lines. As for never using an implement, well the hand hurts worse than a hickory. A hickory just stings and goes away after a few. That's mainly why I use that. I know how to spank and I don't do the redneck "beating a child" I spank. There is a difference between a beating and a spanking even though both involve physical force. Spanking works. I spanked mine and they didn't end up with psychological problems from it and they weren't afraid of me or my husband and nobody had a problem. Big difference. If it's so horrible and I'm doing it so wrong how come my kids are fine, and they also agree with spanking and sometimes talk about how it does work and that parents who refuse to spank when they need to are doing their kids a disservice cause the kid grows up to be a brat? Also, I don't spank just to spank or because I think I have to or just should. Not every kid needs spanking. My youngest two didn't hardly ever get spanked because other ways worked better with them. I could count on one hand the number of times each of them ever got spanked. You find what works for each child because each child is different. And since you said that how I discipline children reminds you of training a dog, you have obviously not ever trained a dog to do something. You use positive reinforcement when you train a dog to do something. I give dog biscuits for the behavior I want with a dog. I also do that with a child but since a child isn't a dog you need more than just positive reinforcement from time to time. You need negative consequences at times and you have to find what negative consequence works best for each child. Spanking is only one tool.

She's here for this week and next week and my son told her that I was in charge of all food. I'm doing her like I did my kids about food. I make sure there is one dish she likes and I don't push food and don't make a big deal out of it. We have three meals a day and one snack. She's not getting something different instead of what's cooked for everybody but I'd never cook something a child hates and insist they eat it. Last night we did a big breakfast for dinner. Scrambled eggs with cheese, sausage, bacon, grits, biscuits, sweet milk gravy, french toast. I thought about making fruit but didn't have time. She ate one piece of french toast and that was it. Well, that's not a problem, she ate. I've just stopped giving her a lot of snacks and junk food all day and running to get her a replacement for dinner just because she screams her head off about it. Sorry, we have food that she likes for meals even if it's one dish and there is a snack offered. She won't starve. She's just used to being completely catered to for meals. Plus, I let her help me cook. She gets an apron and a stool to stand on and I let her stir and do all kind of things to "help". That makes her more interested in the food itself and she sees what goes into it and what it is, and will help over time in her trying things.