How important are NT friends?

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Something happened awhile ago, and I am still trying to process it.

My son lost one of his friends. She told him that her mom wants her to hang out more with her "normal" friends.

Now, this girl is "more impaired" than my son, and I have always tried to be supportive of other parents of atypical kids, because I know it is hard. So at first I was trying to be accepting of this.

But this is still not sitting right with me. I feel hurt that a parent of another kid on the spectrum actually decided that my son was not a suitable friend for her daughter. Because he is not "normal" enough. Part of me wants to call her, but part of me figures I should keep my mouth shut.

But what do you guys think? Is it important for your kid to spend time with typical peers? When my kids were younger (like preschool age), I thought it was, simply so they could learn to interact. But my son is in middle school. I don't care if his friends are typical or not. I just care that he has friends who accept him for who he is.

My son has not gotten to the friend acquiring stage, but I would be happy with any friend ---unless s/he was a really bad influence and got my son in trouble.

If my son had more than one friend, it would be nice but not mandatory if one was less-impaired than my son, socially, so that he could maybe act as an adviser. An NT friend would be helpful, also, but I would not require it as a condition or anything.

I would never terminate a friendship b/c a child was not NT enough. That makes no sense. She could certainly encourage your daughter to become friends with NT kids without dumping your child as a friend. I don't understand the logic.

I wonder if maybe the girl's mom might think her daughter will be less of a target if she doesn't hang around with the "weird" kids. The pragmatic part of me can understand that point of view, but the idealistic part of me and the principled part of me balks against it. In principle, I believe that no one is any less valuable due to their neurology either way. And in principle, I want my kids to stand up for what they believe and stand by those who have stood by them. And I feel a need to be protective of other kids who struggle, so I just can't picture myself telling either of my kids to hang out with "normal" kids instead of "weird" ones.

Then another part of me tells myself that I shouldn't let this bother me. My son is not really bothered by it. And maybe there is value in having NT friends at this age that I just don't see. I mean, I'm not a fool. I do realize that the one popular kid who likes my son is of great benefit to him in a kind of selfish sort of way. But I would never tell him to stop hanging around with his friends to hang around with this kid.

<sigh>

This isn't quite the same thing...but some mums at my son's old school didn't want him over for play dates because he goes to rugby*. They thought he was too rough. It's a laugh because one of the things about my son is that he's so adaptable. He'll be rough with kids that like to play rough and gentle with those that don't. One of his very best friends does not like rough play and they do not play rough, when he is at their house he is kind and sweet and gentle. With another friend, he's quite naughty, with another, yes - he is rough.

So what I'm saying is that there will always be people who think something weird about your kid and make mistakes and not want them to be friends, etc - and sometimes it will defy logic.
___

*I'm a bit worried he's not tapped enough into his roughness for rugby!! We'll see when it comes to contact next year.

I used to play rugby and I don't think anyone would ever describe me as rough!

It is possible she thinks that way, but it would only work if she were capable of passing for typical, and the kids have to all be supportive.

From what I remember of girl cliques (and NT groups at that age are gender specific) the odds that she would not be the butt of jokes within the group is unlikely. She will stick out, and I doubt it will be pretty.

I don't think this mother's plan makes much sense.

She is a very physically attractive girl. Some might say stunning. But she doesn't pass very well. She has very stiff body movements, her affect is blunted, she has long pauses in much of her speech, and she either fails to make eye contact or stares too much. These traits are worse when she is uncomfortable, but once she gets more comfortable, she is a great kid. For the most part. There were a few incidents of lying over the past year or so, but I think it is largely because she is trying to fit in. She can also be controlling, and gets upset when her expectations are violated.

For her sake, I hope she found a core group of friends like my closest friends when I was in middle school. We were all the nurturers. Some actually fit in with the "in" crowd because they were good at sports, but many were neither popular nor unpopular. Just nice girls. But yes, most "girl" cliques are horrible. I still don't know why some of the girls I grew up with were so mean to me. I tried to steer clear of them, but they went out of their way to be mean anyway.

I wish this little girl the best, but being pretty might make it worse for her because the other girls will be envious of that.

I always did best in mixed groups. All-girl cliques had rules I did not understand that were enforced with the ruthlessness of a Mafia crew. The few times I tried to be in one, it was a disaster.

i think they start early, now, too. In my son's kinder, a few years ago, there was a group of three girls, who rean their little group with the sophistication of junior high school girls. They were mean to my son, which (luckily?) he did not understand, and were very conniving and sophisticated for their age. Mostly they went after the other girls and each other when one would leave the room. With my son, they would mainly point and laugh when he would twirl around and stim.

I think it's very important to have disabled friends (ASD or not doesn't matter) because if you only hang out with nondisabled NTs, you will always be the outsider. I think every child needs to have some social contacts where he/she does not stand out from everyone else.

My guess is this parent thinks her daughter will copy behavior from her friends, and would rather she copy NT behavior than autistic behavior. But I think her copying autistic behavior is far less important than her learning that she is not alone, she is not the only one who's 'weird', and you can be weird and still be an OK person. Those are the lessons she is likely to learn from having a good friend with a similar disability.

Maybe there's some other reason the parents don't want to say. Maybe they want her to spend more time with girls, or maybe she's picked up some bad habits and blamed it on your son.
Or maybe they're just dumb parents.

Do you think the girl could have lied? Wondered if it was the truth reading, but am quoting what you wrote as it suggests the possibility she made it up.

At first I didn't think she could have lied because you said she's pretty impaired.....the story reminds me of the excuses some people make, though. On the other hand, sometimes, the parents really are behind it.

It's frustrating to have people be cruel. And to have to act like things aren't a big deal. You might be able to find out more, just not sure it's worth it.

I thought there might have been lying, but one of the other parents in my son's peer group has spoken with the mother and apparently, it is true. I don't think she came right out and said it is because our kids are "weird," but she did say she wanted her daughter to spend more time with her "other" friends. It is my son who told me that her "other" friends are not weird, and the girl made the comment about "normal" friends.

Maybe it is because they are girls? I hadn't thought of that. Perhaps her mom wants her hanging around with girls instead of mostly boys and a couple of girls.

Her parents might be worried about inappropriate boy/girl interactions, given her age and looks. I'd probably feel the same if I had a girl with ASD. As it is, I worry about DS going in to middle school next year, and how he will navigate puberty. Especially after having read some of the Love and Dating posts.

I can understand a parent to be not all that happy with her daughter (more than with a son) to be friends with a soon-to-enter-puberty Aspergian, depending on what she heared from her friends and the internet. there are some nasty warnings out there.

that said; i think it is good to have some (accepting) NT friends if you are on the spectrum; they can help you identify correct behaviours and improve your coping mechanisms.
i was lucky enough to have some of these in college, they helped me a lot, and probarbly changed my future from being in an institution towards being gainfully employed.

do note: the NT friends must be understanding and accepting of you being on the spectrum, if they are not, the result will be the opposite.
unfortunately, such NTs are rare before the last year of secondary school (say: ages 16 and up, probarbly even older).

Hey InThis,

Personally I wish my daughter had more friends on the spectrum, or even just exposure to them! I am pretty much banned from being involved in my daughters social life (she's 13), and she very much wants to make her own choices socially. I'm amazed this girl is going along with it. Throwing aside any friendship is such a waste, I can't see where this mom is coming from. If she thinks by hanging out with NT kids that her daughter is going to be exposed to "better" behavior I think she is sadly mistaken! At my daughter's school many of the "cool" girls are drinking, smoking pot and posting some pretty hair raising stuff online (I monitor my daughters social media).

I will say my daughter enjoys friendships with several loud, outgoing NT girls. I found this puzzling at first, but I think these girls take up so much oxygen in the room that she (my daughter) doesn't have to do any heavy lifting - socially speaking. She just floats along in their wake enjoying watching the chaos they cause. She also has a couple sweet/nice girl friends, and one or two nerdy ones.

Its interesting that you mention the girls appearance and that she is pretty - looks are so important at this age. She may be getting a "pass" from the NT girls because of the way she looks. My daughter is the same way and when she meets new kids the pretty "mean girl" types always come to sniff around, because thats what she looks like. Barbie on the outside, science geek and socially awkward on the inside. It leads to some interesting situations.

Anyway, I'm rambling. But I think the mom sounds like a small minded twit and if it were me I'd be very annoyed. Tell your son my daughter would love to be his friend!

Take care!

Gosh. I don't care. My 7 year old daughter shows zero interest in other children or friends at this point. She is "hfa" but not at all interested in friends or socializing. Period. She views other children as a nuisance and nothing more... I'd encourage her on almost any friend if she showed an interest.