Please help ! (question about mandatory school hours)

Post Reply New Topic

Please help me ! I am so sick of all the BS and the conspiracy theories about special education homeschooling.

As some of you regulars know, I am a homescholing Mum to a pre-verbal son on the lower end of the spectrum. My son turns 6 later this year (oh, joy !) and I'm starting to have run-ins with the "system", again.

My question : How many hours of schooling per day should a special needs child in kindergarten or first grade get ? I have been told 5 hours of "academics" a week with a child who has minimum receptive language, ZERO expressive language, a few signed mands and with the cognitive level of a 2-yr-old "won't legally cut it" and I am expected to school him in "academics" for 25 hours A WEEK. They showed me the education code from HSLDA (which anyone with half a brain cell knows refers to the mandatory homeschool hours for children in general education, not a kid with significant autism like my son) which indicates the necessity for "full time schooling" for kids who school at home !

Before I run out and hire a lawyer, I'd like to DIY this (in an attempt to save time and money). I have looked and looked and looked - including the California Department of Education - and can't (for the life of me) find anywhere it says that a kid with special needs HAS to be in an SDC class or be tutored in academics for 6 hours a DAY ! Am I missing something ? Are there any federal statutes under IDEA that might cover this ?

Please, please help ! I am just so overwhelmed and frustrated right now.

Thank you all so much in advance for your advise / feedback / help.

I don't live in Cali, but my first reaction is if they want you to show you are doing 5 hours a day or 25 hours a week of academics or whatever it is, the easiest thing may be to think about what you are doing as academics.

If you are attempting to teach him words for shapes---that is math. If you are doing general communication work, that is language arts. Now, if they are asking for Common Core ---or whatever Cali does, that would be harder, but if you can just describe what you are doing with their buzz words that might be the path of least resistance.

Failing that, I would look at Wright's Law's website or look for an advocate. (yeah, I know you probably knew that already---but for the sake of completion and/or lurkers who do not know, I am mentioning it.) It is very possible that this is not the state's interpretation, but the school district's attempt to get you to put your kid back in their system for revenue enhancement purposes.

.

I don't know anything about this for a fact, but this does not seem right to me AT ALL. I'd be surprised if you need a lawyer because that just doesn't make any sense!

Did they define what constitutes "academics"? That doesn't make any sense, because I HIGHLY doubt 6 years olds do 5 hours of academics each day in public school. They are only in school for 6 hours, and during those 6 hours they spend time wrangling kids, breaks, snacks, standing in line, tidying up, disciplining kids, doing gym class, putting on shoes and coats, doing play time, doing music, etc., etc., etc.. And everyone knows that homeschoolers don't have to spend as much time on academics because with 1:1 they waste less time than they do in public school. So yeah…that's a ridiculous rule, even if the kid is highly verbal and advanced, much less a child with no language skills.

If your child would have an IEP at school (which I assume he would), then he is obviously not going to be following the regular curriculum anyway. Maybe they meant you have to spend 5 hours a day on "school", but that "school" can be whatever your child needs to LEARN (and if that's how to wash his hands, then that's what he needs to learn).

What about people who do "unschooling" and stuff like that? I thought the whole point of homeschooling was that you decide what you want to teach your kid (within some limits)…

Tell them what they want to hear.

My public school sped ed teachers are losing their minds with common core.

Instead if life skill stuff, it is all academics, and some how a kid who is barely verbal is supposed to do at grade level learning. This year the state testing kicked in and yes, kids who are severely disabled had to take the test. It was a nightmare.

Are there no home school groups around you? My state is do whatever you want homeschooling wise, don't know about California.

There has to be someone around you that has dealt with this before.

But yes, in my state Sped kids are suppose to show mastery of grade level skills. Insane.

Good luck.

I would think you would count any time you were working on an IEP goal as academic.

How you are doing homeschooling? Are you going through a homeschool charter, through your district, or filing a PSA (private school affidavit)? I think with a PSA you basically just have to keep attendance, but you won't get any speech or OT or other services. With the charters you are on the hook to provide work samples and meet with a credentialed teacher once a month.

I'd suggest finding out if local homeschoolers have a group on facebook or yahoo. Some of them will be using a PSA and can fill you in on how it works.

We ran into some of this insanity in our state (not CA). We had to do 8th grade state testing equivalent (SAT 10) last summer. Our state system is insane. It is fairly lax on day to day activities but the state testing has no functional instructions for the state to use when considering someone home schooled with special needs.

Since our daughter is home schooled they see no reason to do IEPs and because there is no IEP there is no way to demand special consideration for things like testing. Luckily we don't have to do another test until 11th grade and that is SAT or ACT for college. I will have to burn that bridge when I get to it.

I would try to find a home school group in California that is either secular or focuses on special ed home school. They might be the best place for advice. I have gotten quite a bit of help navigating the state level mess from secularhomeschool.com forum.

I don't know what I would do if we had to complete 25 hours a week. We are still working through cycles of her being either extremely depressed or shut down for days. Those days nothing is getting done.

I am in California and preparing to homeschool my kid for 3rd grade (starting this fall). I just had my final IEP meeting yesterday, and told them I'd be filing a private school affidavit and they gave me his now-one-page IEP to hold onto, as a "place-holder" if we decide to re-enroll in public school at some point, but other than that, I'm good-to-go with whatever I want to do. From what I understand, as long as I file the affidavit in the fall, keep attendance, and teach the required subjects, I am completely free to choose which materials and methods I desire to teach. I have never heard of ANY requirement for a minimum number of hours per day, week, month, or term. That should be entirely up to you. But are you doing this completely on your own, or are you affiliated with some homeschooling program that does some of the curriculum planning for you? Who exactly are "they" who are telling you about these requirements?

Maybe the difference is that I am going to completely cut myself off from the school, and not get any services from them, so therefore I'm not required to follow anyone else's system. The only thing they told me I *should* do is to have him come up to the district for his triennial evaluations (free of charge) next spring so that we can keep his "placeholder" IEP up-to-date in case I ever need it again.

You may find this helpful:

http://www.californiahomeschool.net/wp- ... 014-15.pdf

Thank you so very much for your responses.

Carpenter_bee, thank you in particular for your feedback / links. I am asking for ST and OT from my local school district through an IEP. I do want him on an IEP just to make sure that we can access the public school system resources if / when we run into any problems with our homeschool. I guess that one can't have it all and getting active adjunct services through an IEP is the reason that the district ends up having some say in how many hours he is being "schooled".

Also, supposedly / allegedly, an IEP must / will state the duration of the school day. I am still confused / researching this, and want to know how to make this work. My son isn't ready for an hour of academics a day, leave alone 5 ! Do you have any suggestions / feedback on your own placeholder IEP ? Does it state the length of the school day ?

Well, the "placeholder" IEP is actually called a "services plan" and it's what the district provides in lieu of an IEP, just as a way to say they are offering certain services to a child who is going to be educated in a private school. The district is under no obligation to offer ANYTHING, so the services plan is just a document that lays out what they ARE offering. I suppose they could actually offer things like OT and ST if they had tons of extra money and didn't mind spending it (which I can't imagine happening-- why would a school ever spend money if it didn't HAVE to?)

On our document, it simply states that they are offering 600 hours of "consultation/training", which I think is their way to cover costs if they spend any time talking to me throughout the year and/or for the triennial evaluations next spring, in case he wants to go back to school, or if the homeschooling doesn't work out. I was actually hoping I could still take him up to school for speech class, because they have some good social-skills group stuff and that teacher has a good relationship with him, and I asked them about that, but they wound up not offering it, and I didn't push for it. In the end, I felt that being cut off completely, but having total control, was what we need to do at this time. I think they would have preferred some kind of compromise where they still had some hand in things, but I've found that I simply can't trust them to act in his best interests. They don't have a very good understanding of his needs OR his strengths. It sounds like you're in somewhat the same boat, if they are so focused on something like number of hours spent "teaching"... I could spend 3 hours trying to "teach" my kid something and have it be a complete waste of time, while on another day, I could cover the same thing in 10 minutes, with great success, just depending on his state of mind. Imposing a set number of hours is just stupid, and the fact they don't understand that, just proves that they have no idea how best to teach these kids (and that what is "best" is going to be different for each kid).

If you are in a situation where you still have an actual IEP, rather than a "services plan", then I would think you could simply negotiate some kind of language on the document that conveys your right to judge the appropriate amount of time to spend on academics. If you are really homeschooling, then I don't see any way they can demand you teach a minimum number of hours. I can't find anything that says a minimum number of hours is required for private schools in California... unless you aren't actually formally homeschooling, but rather still have your kid enrolled in the public school, but doing "at home" study while still having to follow the school's general schedule/curriculum etc.

I've never heard anything about an IEP having to state the duration of the school day. From what I've seen, on my son's IEP, the only time frames it has to clearly state are the total number of hours of services being offered/provided, and the time frame that the document is in effect.

The more I think about it, these people just sound nuts. My middle son is in Kindergarten right now; he is 6 years old, and in California, his mainstream NON special-ed school day is only from 8:10-11:50. Where the heck are they getting this "5 hours a day" crap and why are they trying to scare you with it?

If you take him grocery shopping with you and ask him to "put one apple in the cart," to me, that is academics (math). If you take him to the zoo and read the little signs that talk about animals, that is academics (science). If you sing him nursery rhymes, that is academics (language development). If you have him fingerpaint, that is academics (colors, art, etc). If you take him on a walk and point out the different kinds of trees or flowers, that is academics (science). If you take him to the playground and encourage interaction with others, that is academics (socialization). If you play a game with him, that is academics (rule following).

IOW, I bet you are doing 5 hours of academics with him without even realizing it. From what i know of you, he is not sitting in a corner somewhere with no stimulation all day.

I also agree that you should make them show you where they are getting this "5 hours" from...many kindergartens across the nation are only part-time. Heck, my daughter is in mainstreamed 4th grade and I would be surprised if 5 hours of her day is actually "academics" unless you get to count things like art, PE, and music.

I thought you weren't required to enroll your child in school until the school year in which he turns 6, meaning next year. Might be wrong about that.

I don't know that you can stand this, but I think you are very strong. An option (and it would probably be too much for me) might be to go along....meaning meet with them to discuss the school program and IEP needed. The next step would be to think about your "wish list" of what you feel he needs to attend school. I imagine you'd ask for a communications classroom, maybe a 1:1 aide, probably assisting with toileting, transportation needs, along with the speech and OT daily. Which you'd need backed up by outside evaluators.

Come to think of it, unless you agree what they say he needs is fine (and it seems like you don't), you could ask for an independent evaluation they pay for, assuming you can't pay for your own evaluation. Which is better only that if you disagree you don't have to share it with them.

Getting an expert on your side sounds like it should be relatively easy. Do it. Don't be alone in this.

I apologize for being cynical, but they might decide it's cheaper and easier to leave you alone then fight with you if they see you're not giving up on what you think he needs. And if they say they don't have what you think he needs and he needs to be in school, you say "my child deserves a FAPE and I'm happy to talk to you about how I think that can happen but making it happen is up to you; now what can you do for my child, here is what he needs, here is what the evaluations say he needs".

They might be right.....or they might just be pushy, but my guess is, the evaluations done so far say how he needs speech and OT and if they comment on academics they may not say the number of hours, if they do, it's likely something you're already doing; or you could say you're confused and there's no time for it all, your worried for his state of mind....and before you send him back you would like an evaluation to assess how much of what he needs and can tolerate. I would hope you could at the very least buy time, which may be all you need.