The Fine Line of Bully Behavior

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Okay, just one more thread about autistic kids getting bullied at school-and getting in trouble for it!
So, my son receives services through Special Ed but spends the majority of his time in a regular 1st grade class. There is a boy that has increasingly been picking on him, it seems all verbal. Pop keeps refering to him as the reason he doesn't like school. It seems to be happening under the radar and I don't know if he is ever held accountable for his actions. Last week at a meeting for Pop's Behavior Plan, I brought up this boy, referring to the problems my son has with him. The teacher said he's really nice and didn't seem to believe anything was going on.
Pop had been getting into more and more trouble over lunch recess, he can't "play" and ends up shouting, "threatening" other kids ("my mom is going to call the police on you"). We worked out a plan where he is given directed activities. So, a couple days into it, he's now playing with another autistic kid and got teased over it. Pop doesn't seem to understand why he is being teased or exactly what the other boy meant. He just knows that he's angry and today spit at him.
I know kids say "the darndest things" and you can't make kids be nice. But should I push this issue any further? Should I try and demand that he is kept away from this little boy? Or should we just make Pop deal with it? We are punishing him for spitting and he's been made to apologize at school. However, I don't think this is going to go away. The other kid knows that Pop had to spend recess in the special ed room.

I would listen to your son and point out that this child is causing your child undue anxiety and possibly even request a behavoiral assessment to determine what is going on while on the playground. Focus on your child's anxiety rather than the other kid when talking with the teacher.

wait hold on a minute.

why should your son spend recess in a special room at brake times locked up while all the other kids get to play outside?

If i was you, i would take this futher, it isnt fair on your son at all, he should be aloud out with the rest of the kids, and if he is being bullied, then you should demand something is done about it.

I spend most of my school years staying inside at brake because i was bullied because of my AS.

And beleave me, it was very grim indeed.

Now i wish that my parents done something about it.

Also, he needs to mix with other children to help develop social skills, if he stays inside all the time, he wont learn how to socialise with people on the outside world, and he will become isolated.

I am 16 years old, and i left school because it was too much to bear, and i am only just learning to cope with my new peers at my college, but i regret not socialising at school.

And if they still do make him stay inside demand the bullying kid has to stay inside to. The bullying kid misses too many recesses he will be alot nicer (its nice to deal with punishing kids, it is so much easier!)

Similar problem here. M constantly complains about bullying by two specific kids during unstructured, unsupervised times (hallways, lunch, gym locker) but since teacher thinks these kids are "very nice", they only get warnings if anything at all. It's always under the radar, of course, kids aren't stupid. M complains but there is never a real consequence and (surprise) the behavior continues.

This annoying school thinks that self-advocacy is the greatest gift they can give to these kids but really when the kid tries to advocate, nobody helps so what are they really teaching them. I think he's learned his lesson well and it's that no one gives a @!#$.

I keep asking him if he needs me to intervene and call the school but he refuses and wants to try and handle it himself (thanks to the school for making him ashamed to ask for help from home). So I keep encouraging him to stand up for himself and to blow the whistle (loudly) and keep going up the chain of command if he doesn't get any results.

Today he told me there was another incident at the lockers and he again told his teacher and finally the kids were written up and had to go to the principal's office. I think there might be a suspension coming. I hope they finally treat this kind of behavior for what it is.

I think I'd be aggressive in handling this now. Give the school notice that zero tolerence policy has to include bullying under the radar!

Seriousgirl-we had the behavior plan meeting last week, this round of bullying is actually about that. We planned for my son to play in a structured way during recess, since he was having such a rough time. He was being picked on concerning the child he is set to play with.
I did ask the school psychologist to assess Pop during recess. When she submits the draft to me, I'll ask her if she discovered anything.

Fraz_2006-He spent time in the room due to spitting at the boy. It's a fairly common consequence for rule-breaking. He usually doesn't get busted that way. And he's not segregated from the other kids unless he needs to do something out of class like his handwriting exercises or short sensory breaks, speech therapy. Very minimal amount of time.

Endersdragon, See, that's what I'm wondering. Can I ask about other children? I will bring up (again) the constant talk about this boy and see if there can be more done about it. I will also see if I can work with my son and teach him how to avoid this kid. For all I know, Pop is approaching him first.

It's been my experience from dealing with school systems for 16 years now that you will get nowhere talking about the behavior of other children. It doesn't work with them. If you can get someone who is familiar with autistic kids to observe your child's behavior on the playground in the guise of a "functional behavorial anaysis", then you have a real chance of getting another advocate on your side, one who will notice the bullying. You can also get recommendations from your child's psychologist about how to deal with the behavior and if he is not associated with the school system, he's most likely to be your child's advocate too. The only people who will not help are the people in the "system." If you let the teacher know early on that you will go to extreme measures to correct problems and cause her more paperwork and meetings, she will be your friend and try very hard to cooperate. Sad but true.

If he's not getting along with a child he's "set" to play with, then unset it. You can't make 2 people who dislike each other play nicely, even when they are adults.

I forgot to come back! We're awaiting another assessment by the psychologist, for his recess behavior.
He wasn't having trouble with the other kid he was set to play with. He was getting teased about that kid.

If you seem confused on what is going on, you may ask if you can come in for a day to just observe your son and the other boy playing. I know that the elementary school where my son goes is very understanding about things like that. Sometimes there is too many thing for the teacher to notice. Ask about volunteering during recess or PE (gym) class. These are less structured times of the day, and your son may be overly stressed by what he should do. This could make some things that the other kids do seem worse to him than to the teacher. I know I have trouble noticing some of the things that really bother my son, and seem like nothing to me. I also know that my son's school has had limited training on Asperger's and I share any information that my doctor gives me with the counselling staff. It has helped not only my son, but other kids as well. I am a cub scout leader for my son's den. There is another parent in scouts who was talking about some of the things that the school was noticing with his son. He said he did not understand why they were not noticing this stuff last year. The point is, after we talked we realized they were using the information I sent into school. He said that it has made a tremendous improvement in his son's situation at school. I know I look at some of the post about schools on the web-sites, and it scared me to death about doing my sons IEP. Instead, I found the school was willing to let me come in to observe my son any time I felt it was necessary. I hope this helps.

Even if someone does witness the boy bullying your son nothing will be done to the boy. Bullys never get punished and what are they going to do? If they call his parents they will side with him. The teacher is already siding with the boy because she called him a nice boy. Is obvious your child is getting labeled as the not-nice boy. However he shouldn't be forced to stay inside at recess because this allows the bully to see that he has WON. He did win because he got your kid in trouble and got him off the playground. You might think of transferring him to a different school or class.

The bad thing about letting your kid go to both special ed and mainstream class is he has been labeled for life now. OR at least his life in that school. Since the other kids no doubt know he is in special ed he is viewed as a ret*d and is a prime target for bullying and no child will respect him. A few weaker ones may feel sorry for the special ed kid and play with him a little, but overall his chances of having friends is screwed.

I don't see why parents don't get this. Don't put your autistic child in special ed unless he or she is low IQ because it sets them up for more bullying and they are less likely to accomplish anything in life. If you stick them in with the Downs Syndrome kids they are not going to learn proper socialization skills and they will not end up in college and living on their own. Trust me. I am adult Aspie who survived. The more parents meddle the harder it is on the kid in school. You only interfere when there is physical or sexual violence coming from the bullys. Otherwise your child MUST learn HOW to deal with other people. Its all survival of the fittest. The teacher should punish him for the spitting (not just you). Its not acceptable behavior and he must learn this. Even if someone was rude to him spitting is inexcusable.

Special ed has broader definitions today and many more programs. Low IQ/downs syndrome kids go to a life skills class or special school. LD kids go to learning support class or resource room or a combination of reg ed and ls/res. Kids with behavioral or emotional issues have separate classes or specialized schools. Some inclusion schools have sped teachers in reg classes with no pullout. There are lots of different programs and each should be looked at for each individual child. It's not a one size fits all education anymore. Not where I live anyway. Parents are shopping around.

Ticker, i don't know about where you live but special ed classes have never been like that. I've been in several places in this country. Anyhow, Pop receives services by being enrolled in a special ed class. here in Arizona, that's how it's done. That's why he wasn't getting the right resources in his last school because they filed him as a regular ed student. He is enrolled in an Autism Clinic, there are kids of all types in there. Some are mainstreamed, some just spend a limited time in regular classes, some stay in the special ed class all the time.

It's not that I don't get it, it's that I disagree with that pov.

Today I find out that they haven't done anything structured during recess and haven't intended to. This after a whole conversation about improving recess behavior. I'm tired of this nonsense. But on an better note, Pop is learning to ignore the bully and isn't getting any more guff for it.

You really need to get a handle on it before it blows up in your face! Take them out of school until the dust settles if you have to. My son said no one would see the other kids that were taunting him and therefore could do nothing. So, he decided to take things into his own hands and protect himself by bringing a "knife" to school to make them go away and leave him alone. It got him into Juvenille Hall and now the county regional center has him and we're in for the fight of our life to get him out and home. It's been 6 months!

I agree. This is going to continue to continue to blow up.

My son was in regular ed as a KG and Gr. 1 and 2 student. No one even considered he had Asperger's because he was not "bad enough". Another boy his age in the school was DX with As, similar to my son but more pronounced. Anyway, little things where always happening with my son, he seemed to be constantly in "situations" and the school took the stance that it was "my son" that was the "problem" the other kids where "not" picking on him.

Ha!

Eventually, they came down with the hammer because my son "was always the middle of trouble, therefore had to be the instigator right?" And it devolved to them not offering any help until we "got the behaviour under control".

You may have better luck with it then I did, having a DX should go a long way. I had to pull my son out of school for 4 years because the system was "breaking him". I think I saved his life.

He is back now, and things are still not perfect. I hope I can make things work out, but like you, suffer from the teachers not recognizing that it isn't my son that is the "problem" rather the other kids. It is easier to ask him to "take it" or take tools away that he needs, like recorders that the other kids are targeting him over, then to get them to leave him alone.

My main advice, is fight fight fight for him, and don't let the solution be that your son needs to be the one who bends or changes, or has to ignore. ASD children are not little GUMBIES, the truth is, they don't bend very well at all!

As far as "punishments" go, try to keep in mind that he won't respond the way a NT child will. He does not have the same capacity to start with, therefore he did not do the act "fully knowing it was wrong or unacceptable" He needs the rules explained to him, sometimes over and over, not just "enforced". By disciplining him to harshly, he may not understand that it is entirely in relation to his behaviour, and may read that you don't love him, or want to understand him into it.

I liken it to a western world woman, being transported and dropped off in an Islamic country. She does not have a prior understanding of the "dress code" that many Islamic countries enforce with women. She does not have her hair covered, and she is wearing a mini skirt! Immediately, she is scooped up and led away by a government official who enforces dress code. She does not speak the same language, but begins to understand "why she is in trouble". She is not dressed appropriately! She comes to the realization, that apparently her hair should be covered, and she should not show off her legs!

She "gets it". And is given a one time forgiveness pass, and let go. She finds accommodations for the night, and the next day, goes outside. This time, she is wearing a baseball cap (covering her hair) and is wearing Capri pants (Covering her legs) She "thinks" she is dressed right but is stunned, when moments later, she is in trouble again!

This time, they are much more upset with her! Did they not just tell her YESTERDAY that her showing so much was unacceptable? Did they not just tell her she needed to keep her hair covered, and not show off her legs? So, they deal with her in a much harsher manner! She "should have known better!"

Now, this is an imaginary situation, that would never happen. I am sure most women who travel to such a country would go knowing the dress code, but the theory is the same.

She lands in an environment to which she does not understand the "rules". And violates the "rules".

She is informed of the rules, but in her case, due to a language barrier, does not fully understand the extent of the "rules".

She wants to comply with the rules, however the very next day, while thinking she is following the rules, she is actually breaking them! And finds herself, "again" in trouble!

The dress code enforcer is frustrated, because they just told her "the rules". Why is she breaking them again? She must be a will full law breaker, and need punishment!

Is this true? No! She just needed to be further informed! Then, she would have been more then happy to comply. An interpreter should be brought in, explain the rules in her own language, and make sure that she can restate the rules back, so that they know she understands! Then she is unlikely to ever have a problem again!

With your son, he did something wrong. Maybe he knew it was wrong, but did not understand the full extent of why it was wrong, or "how" socially unacceptable it was. So, what do you do? The point is, you have to inform him. You have to teach him the rules of social engagement. However, you will have to determine, “is he doing this to be mean, malicious, or with mal intent? Does he understand what he did wrong? (he may not, even if he has been told many many times, it just has not “sunk in”. It may be that you need to work on calmly re-explaining it to him, in a different way in a non threatening environment, and have him explain it back to you, showing that indeed, he does understand!

One last example. My husband saw my son (12) playing a violent game on the internet in front of my younger children. He asked him to not do so. My son asked “why”. He was told, “because I don’t want your brother or sister to see you playing it, and I don’t think it is good for you either. (He was stimming with it). So, ½ an hour later, he is playing a different game. He is called out on it, did we not tell you not to play those games. Answer: No, you only said not that one. Ok, re explain, “don’t play violent games on the internet, not that one, not this one, not anyone.”. Brother and sister are out, he is playing game. BUSTED! Ask, did we not just tell you not to? Answer, but brother and sister are not around! Then, he has trouble distinguishing what a “violent game” is. This goes on and on, finally, he is choosing more appropriate games. We could have “punished him” but honestly, he just did not “get it”. We thought we explained it to him, but in re evaluating the situation, it became evident we kept failing to fully explain it. That said, sometimes he does do things he KNOWS clear as mud he should not do and is punished. Generally though, he is a very "law abiding" and compliant child.

The overall rule with punishment with AS children, is tolerance, patience, and firmness. Maybe it sounds like an oxymoron, but it is true! Don’t expect him to just “know” even the most obvious things! And be prepared to routinely examine the “why” is he doing this!

Thanks for your comments.