Why do a lot on this subforum seem to not like me?

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And it's really ok to answer this. This isn't one of those "oh, I'm feeling bad so I want you to tell me I'm wrong and say good things about me" kind of posts. I'm not that type of gal, if I want that I will actually ask for it. I'm serious though. I've noticed that a lot are kind of standoffish toward me or just basically ignore me altogether, and that's fine. I always tell others to ignore people who bother them and if that is how somebody see it with me, then they are doing exactly what is right for them.

However, I'm actually just curious. Also, don't worry, you won't hurt me feelings. I have a very thick skin and if my feelings are hurt by an honest answer to a question I've asked then it's my own fault for asking it. Trust me, I have an idea of what I might could get on this and it's ok to say it.

I might post back to explain why I might do or say some particular thing that somebody says that I do, but I won't be whining for you to change your mind about me or anything like that. If it's because I sometimes see overprotectivness when it's not there, thats ok and it's because my own mother was extremely overprotective of me so it's a knee jerk reaction anytime something seems like it's within range of dead cat swinging of it. If it's because I may sometimes seem a bit harsh in my critiques of other's parenting styles, that is ok too. In fact that's the same reason my own mother didn't like me too much after I turned about 12 or 13, so I'm really used to it and it won't hurt me at all.

I'm asking because if people here don't particularly care for me, then it's because of something I've done and I would like to know what it is so I can try to kind of tone things down a notch or eight.

So, tell me what it is ya'll. For real, I really want to know. I'm EXTREMELY aware of why some people on other parts of the forum dislike me, but I've imagined that most here are NT and not quite as sensitive as we aspies can be. But honestly, no tiptoeing on eggshells, no rose colored glasses, none of that please unless you need to put things like that for your own comfort, and some people do. You can also start out with the assumption that I know that I can be a pretty big b***h at times even when I don't mean to be. I'm also aware of that. Don't be afraid of the b word lol.

Telling me what you really feel will not result in me stomping off to the Haven and typing a flounce. My last "flounce that wasn't a flounce" was about a lot of things on here, not about me personally. Nor will it result in me reporting anyone. I just want to know, and if you don't ask you'll never find out, right?

I like you OOM. I don't know about others.

You know, though, that when I might be worried and struggling with how to help my child, I am looking for information, suggestions, empathy and support, not necessarily in that order. It may be the same for others. You come on strong and at least for me I've no desire to be pushed around about my parenting, I've the schools, my neighbors, my mother who's stopped speaking to me again, as well as the former friends who have normal kids and have dropped us over the years.

Many parents who post here (not all of course) are on the spectrum ourselves, too; so I wouldn't assume a lower level of sensitivity, plus NTs as you know are very sensitive in their own way. And one of the things I at least get people most mad at me for, is telling a truth that's unwelcome. A common aspie trait, but nonetheless, unwelcome. Doesn't mean you should or shouldn't say what you think, that's for you to judge. I'm just saying I don't get popular by saying what I think IRL, I'm far less outspoken than you seem to be, there are consequences. Sometimes what you write in the parents forum is surely helpful. But it's often not going to get you liked and may not always be what's desired or needed. However, this is a place of many voices. Do you want to be better liked, or just curious why?

Thanks for your response! About being liked better, eh, I don't know. I'm not online all that much to care either way if I'm liked or not, but I was wondering if I came across as harsh here. I know I do in PPR, but I treat PPR like I do talk radio. I'm also harsh with people in L&D (mainly guys, yes) who whine that no girls like them, they can't do anything, yaddah yaddah yaddah, because if I had taken that route about not being able to do anything, as I've said many times before, I'd have lived my whole life with my mother and a bunch of cats. I'm that harsh on L&D because I actually care. Aunt Blabby says I get in "drill seargeant" mode. I guess he's right. I either want to motivate those guys to where they do try and change what they need to change (attitude usually, many times social skills as well but mainly attitude) or piss them off so much that they decide to do it just to show me they can do it. I make a lot of headway by getting pissed off and being told I couldn't do something. That was always a challenge that I had to try. It led to a lot of things both good and bad.

As for PPR and religious/political/etc debates, or just call them what they are - arguments, I'm exactly like I am when I call in to talk radio shows. I love talk radio and when I first started calling there I was chewed up and spit out even though I was pretty thick skinned. I didn't think it was right to go for the jugular right away. Now it's habit. I also used to write my op-ed column in that style when it was an issue I was passionate about. I can write better than I post here, I'm just lazy. In arguments, I do go for first blood and lots of it, but expect no different from the person I'm arguing with. It makes me respect them. But I try and confine that to those topics. Unless it's my period then all bets are off.

On here, I can easily put myself in the shoes of some of the kids posted about. I think about what my mother either did or would have done and I'm extremely adamant about doing the exact opposite. Don't get me started on her, it's not pretty. She used my physical problems (lots of upper respiratory illnesses, in and out of the hospital several times a year, etc, and tons of allergies) as a way to get attention. If we had known about AS back then and that I had it, she would have been in heaven. She might have actually liked me during my teens. Of course if I had known I had something that meant I couldn't do social skills I wouldn't have tried either. Or maybe I would have. I might not have believed it. I'm stubborn. I get kind of harsh sounding on here because I don't want any of these moms who are obviously NOT doing what my mother did for the same reasons she did, to do to their kids what she did to me. She made me scared of everything. Which is why I'm scared of almost nothing now, except slugs, moths, and things with tentacles.

I think I just wanted to know if I was harsh sounding on here. I'm used to me and so is everybody who knows me, so there isn't any way for me to judge how I'm coming across, not that I'm all that great at that anyway. I'm great at faking NT and it's second nature now and no effort at all, but a lot of times I'm not sure what the hell is going on and I just have to wing it and hope I hit the right note. Like a deaf opera singer or something.

Also, I have no clue what it's like to raise a kid on the spectrum, so I'm really no judge of that. I do think my youngest son has mild AS but he's not interested in finding out, but he was the most difficult one to deal with, but then again he may not have it. So, I can tell you from the point of view of a kid on the spectrum but from the point of view of a parent of a kid on it, I'm just talking out my ass and I freely admit it. While I know that it's different to raise an autistic kid, I can't FEEL that it's different. I cannot actually fathom that anybody else is different than I was even though I KNOW they are. Does that make any sense at all? I'm very aware that it's true, but I pretty much don't believe it even though I know it's true. And I'm aware that I'm wrong to not believe it. I'm not making sense.

Anyway, I was just curious really. Thanks for answering me. And I promise not to bite people who answer this thread. Really.

I guess one of the major points I have is to empower kids and let them learn by trial and error. I didn't get that chance at all. I remember wishing I could get grounded or had some rules or something like other kids. Crazy wish I know, but I did. I had rules, but they weren't normal by any means. The way I was overprotected and all that made me go 180 degrees as soon as I could. I'd probably be a whole lot more normal and nicer if I had the opportunities that other kids had, and if I didn't have to fight so hard to be normal.

So, I was just asking, thats all.

Why do they not seem to like you? Likely for the same reasons they don't like me.

We speak the truth without any "sugar-coating", we don't back down, our opinions are fact-based, our personal experiences contradict their assumptions, we've achieved a level of success that others believe is impossible for Aspies to achieve, and we've done it without social support or government assistance.

Thank you Fnord. I do think that you and I and a few others here have a thicker skin that most NTs do too. Whether or not it's just naturally occurring or if it's a result of constant and horrible bullying and abuse, I don't know. Either way, it's there. You're a lot like the guys I scream at, I mean argue with on talk radio. They do the same back to me, but I've heard people call in and get really offended and upset by some of the things people say to them. From how they come across I'm assuming they are NT's. There are very few on this forum who I'd feel comfortable getting in a down and dirty debate with, but you are one of them. I don't think you'd get offended and I know which lines not to cross, although they are far, far in the distance.

Speaking of which, I wish I had bookmarked this but I didn't. I was surfing around this morning and saw on some blog that I'm trying to find again, about this group that wants the psych profession to stop using the phrase "personality disorder" because it implies that there is something wrong with their personality. It's offensive. Dear God. When I find it I'm going to take it to PPR or maybe to the mental illness subforum. I've logged out since I looked at it and it clears the history so that's no luck. I'll find it though. It's a freakin hoot!

While I think that personality disorder is a factually accurate term myself, I've read that a lot of people who have PDs tend to hate the term and deny it when they are diagnosed with it, the very nature of their PD means they can't accept the fact of their own behaviour and believe the Dr is trying to label them and is a rogue abuser etc. And it can take them years of growing up and being honest with themselves to accept the reality and be honest with themselves. So I think if the name was changed to "emotional level disorder" or something else nicer-sounding it might be a help to people who actually have it in accepting the diagnosis.

I think children need connection and support as well as some pushing and limits and the balance varies at different times in a child's life, as well as for different children.

Maybe you two didn't need or get much support as children, maybe you did, I'm not sure. I can only speak for myself and I did need a lot, it was informal not through someone in an office; the old fashioned kind from the neighbor, teacher, school librarians who took me under their wing and taught and explained things to me etc. As well as what my parents gave me. But a lot of people informally really tried to help me growing up.

However, although I think it's important to speak ones truth and for everyone to have a voice, I also think it's important to recognize that no one's truth (with a few exceptions) is the only truth.

The people who seem best liked on the parents forum seem to mostly do relatively short responses that have some direct advice and not too many judgments. We all have our stories that we try not to dwell on too much, as kids IMO need to see us show some trust and optimism about their future and the world, they are small and need that in a large world.

I often feel unpopular on the parents forum too, and have wondered whether it's because I don't always communicate that well. Everyone is still, as far as I can tell, welcome. At least I hope so.

I didn't know Fnord wasn't liked here. I would like to say something in his defense though. While he may be harsher than I am a lot of times, or maybe just the same I really can't tell, he's a much nicer guy than you would think. Several years back I had a very big problem with something I had done. This was so bad I wouldn't even put it on the forum, and you all know the stuff I put on here, basically everything, so you can just imagine how bad this was! Anyway, I had a serious problem in my head about it.

I mentioned that I needed to talk to somebody and I wasn't sure who, but Fnord PM'd me and I talked to him. I haven't spoken about it to anybody since. Not my family, not my friends, nothing. He actually really helped me get my head together about it. And it was something that most people would have been VERY judgy about. I had always seen him as more of a "comrade in arms" and not a confidante, but he showed me. There was a level of compassion and understanding and guidance that you wouldn't think was there from most of his posts.

He comes across lots of time as just this cranky guy like I come across as this cranky old lady but there is more to him than meets the pixals.

You are one of my favorite posters here, OliveOilMom. I appreciate your frankness, your humor and the fact that you don't seem to care about what others think of you. You can be harsh, but you always admit fault if/ when you realize it was uncalled for. If I haven't responded to one of your posts, it's either because I felt I had nothing to add, or I haven't had time/ been on the forum. I also also don't equate arguing/ disagreeing (even in strong tones) with unfriendliness or dislike. I would say I have thick skin too.

I don't dislike you either, Fnord. I have definitely disagreed with you, and did not sugarcoat my response either, but it does not mean I dislike you. I remember one topic you replied to when I did not believe your response was fact based, but more of an assumption based on your own experience, and I felt like you were a little out of line- so I told you so. I probably wasn't all that nice about it but, then again, neither were you. But I appreciate when people are really honest with their opinion. For the most part, I find your posts to be intelligent and funny. I like when people point out uncomfortable truths in an unapologetic way. I have no idea what your level of success is, but I do not feel threatened by other people's success.

I think you're cool...and many others do, too.

There are some people who don't like people who are "blunt"--even some of those who are blunt themselves.

You have a unique way of presenting yourself--people, inevitably, have trouble with different ways of expressing one's self.

Once they get to know you though, they'll think you're cool.

I get the same sort of flak as you sometimes--but once people get to know me, they like me.

I don't frequent this subgroup often, but I enjoy OOM's and Fnord's posts.

OOM, I think in text you can seem abrasive sometimes and I have trouble personally with taking in walls of texts. I think it's the lack of cues outside of the text itself, and perhaps some cultural differences (for we Yankees/Europeans/whathaveyou). I know you write exactly how you talk, so I read your words in a Southern accent now.

This doesn't surprise me at all, but deepens the respect I already had for Fnord.

I like and value both you and Fnord. I disagree with you sometimes, but doesn't mean I don't like you.

if people don't disagree, humanity will never advance.

I think, 50,000 years ago, that most people wanted to remain hunter/gatherers. There was one oddball, though, who saw the potential in raising cereal grains and domesticating animals for various reasons.

The hunter/gatherers won out, for the most part, for quite a while. However, there were also always people who saw the need to evolve from the oldfangled ways. Eventually, through sheer force and intellect, and quite a bit of scorn (initially) heaped at them, the people who desired a change from the dangerous hunter/gatherer life won out.

OliveOilMom I don't always agree with you but really enjoy your posts. I've often thought that part of the problem is cultural and class-based. You live in a low-income area of the rural South and some of the things that are considered normal there (spanking with a switch comes to mind) completely horrify upper-middle class parents in places like California. Some of your recommendations (sorry can't think of an example) don't sit well with folks who see a college education as the only path. You tend to be very direct, opinionated, and tell it the way you see it. Doesn't bother me but it probably does rub some people the wrong way.

I will agree with the general themes here: I don't have a personal problem with either of you, although I also tend to be pretty blunt when I don't agree with someone. Is it possible that you both are mistaking strong opposing opinions and a willingness on the part of others to follow them through a thread with being disliked?

I also noticed, OOM, that you made a couple of posts to create an activities list that didn't get much attention - I don't think that was about like/dislike but, at least in my case, I didnt respond because it was broad in a way that made it hard: my kid is so specific in the things he likes to do that I don't think it would be useful - and, frankly, he doesn't really like any activities that aren't videogame related. I tend to respond to posts where I feel like I have something to offer and skip the ones where I don't feel I have anything useful to add.

Firstly, I infrequently visit this forum (because I'm not a parent), so I'm probably not qualified to answer your question. But, OliveOilMom, I love you! Your posts make me smile and you've got to be one of our most colorful members.

Anyhow, from my observations, [neurotypical] parents can be mystified in regards to Aspie behaviours that might be perfectly 'normal' for us. Possibly they might regard your perspective as 'letting go of the reigns' into a territory they don't know. For me, I might change my approach slightly depending upon which forum I'm in (E.g., 'soft' to those who are struggling). Still, your perspective is always appreciated

Keep calm & carry on