I need help understanding 13 yr old son with as

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I have a 13 yr old son that has A.S. We were just told about 3 months ago. He has been treated for the past 4 yrs for ADHD, Bi-Polar OCD. And all long it was A.S. He has a 7yr old brother and he acts and respondes in the same manner to things as the 7yr old does. We try to explain to him that this is not acceptable behavior from a 13yr old and it as though he does not understand why.He only does this when they are to gether and it does not matter where we are.They will fight over whose right and whose wronge about everything. Is this part of the A.S because I dont understand. How do you explain to him. In his eyes it is not him that is the problem it is everyone else. I dont see his issues as a problem just a challenge so does any one have any advice that could help? How do you know when he realy understands what he is doing or when he is just misinturpeting the situation in a different mannor than it is ment?I will listen to any advice that is giving because I'm confused.

Last edited by all4myboys on 17 Jan 2007, 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think you need to be asking this also on a Bi-polar OCD board. Aspergers people are rarely violent unless they have something else going on with them like Bi-polar. I had a friend who was bi-polar and another who said she was OCD and both could be terribly cruel.

If your kid has ADHD you might want to take him to be allergy tested because those kids tend to be sensitive to foods and dyes that can cause behavioral problems.

Dear all4myboys:
Well, as the parent of a child with AS, my first piece of advice is to be sure that you do things to maintain your own sanity. It is not easy dealing with AS children, and for most parents it is a trial, and they wind up angry themselves, and then feeling guilty about it. So you have to do something to protect your own sanity first, otherwise you can't help the kid.

Next, remember always, that you are dealing with your son, the human being, not your son the diagnosis. Also, that some of the medication very well meaning psychiatrists try is actually harmful and makes things worse. Many people in the AS community are very against drugs. That is not a stand I happen to agree with, but it is not one that I'd argue with either.

Dealing with anger:
In that, you might just need some professional help to find out why. It sounds to me like a case of sibling rivalry, which can be hell when one of the kids has Asperger's Syndrom. It is not "as though he does not understand why." That is exactly the problem. He does not understand why, and it is not because he is ret*d, it's because that is a part of Asperger's. Of course, you have a responsibility to your other child, so when you explain to your 13-year-old that he has done something wrong, be sure to emphasize that it is the behavior that is unacceptable, not the child. Try, hard as it is, to keep your voice low during an intervention, and your attitude neutral, even though you might be boiling inside.

The most important thing to find out, and you'll need a psychiatrist for this, is why he's angry. Nothing comes out of nowhere. Is it unreasonable anger (or is there some cause) is he having a "melt-down" (which is just something you have to live through), or is he justifyably angry at something (like a bad day at school, and everyone on this board can tell you about that), and just coming home where he can "act out his frustrations." You have to figure it out. And it isn't easy, because he might not know himself, and the people in school are not going to tell you.....unless they are very unusual.....all they see is a disruptive child. In higher functioning Autism (of which Asperger's is a part) most people look normal, and are treated by the rest of the world as though they are misbehaving normal people, which works against them, especially if they are good-looking, and the rest of the world can't see that someone who is physically good looking, or not in a wheel chair, or something like that has a handicap of any kind.

In my experience, and in the experience of many people on this board, and many people who are not on this board, the rest of the world tortures a kid with Asperger's, and it gets worse in high-school.

How do you know when he really understands what he is doing. You don't. You're not a mind-reader. "In his eyes he's not the problem, everyone else is." That's my son's feeling too. And in some cases, you know what, he's right. In other cases, you have to explain that he can think what he likes, but he can't act on it. Remember, there is probably a great deal of missperception of the acts of the rest of the world. That is a part of this affliction.

Is he interpreting the situation in a different manner?
You bet he is. And he may always do that, and he may need to be shown (again by a professional) that not every situation is something to be afraid of (most of the time, in my experience, anger is a reaction to a percieved injustice, and remember that we're dealing with children and adults who percieve injustice in everything). The biggest and hardest part of that is that many times they're right, there is injustice, they are being persecuted, and they have every right to be angry. How they deal with that anger is where you have to do a lot of work.

I do not want to make this a "downer" of a response, because I'm simply trying to share the experiences I've had raising an Asperger's child, and so far, I'm not unhappy with the outcome at all, and my kid is 18.

First, many Asperger's children are highly creative, see things in the world that many of the rest of us do not, interpret things in a far different way than the rest of us, and that's not entirely a bad thing, because many great men and women including people like Thomas Edison and Albert Einstine probably had Aspergers (you might look for a book on the web called "The Edison Gene.") We made some terrible educational mistakes with my kid, including putting him into a very reputable special program that was a disaster for him. (he's survived with his sanity intact despite them) and now he's very somoth in public, interested in physics, an accomplished musician (and that's not just our opinion), but underneath, he still misses a lot of social cues. Will he ever be able to hold a job? I can't answer that yet. Life is a work in progress, but Asperger's is not a condition where a child has to be locked away.

As I said earlier, my kid decided to stop taking all medication a long time ago. I think he would be more comfortable if he did, but he's the one who has to make that decision.

With a child like yours, you will have to work a little harder, with both of them, because you can't neglect the 7-year-old, but you and your husband need to look at your Asperger's child as a promise of things to come. He might, indeed, grow out of some of the symptoms, it has been known to happen, he might turn out to be just an average person who eventually will hold down a mundane job like most of the rest of us, but then again, he might turn out to be one of the bright lights of society, 13 is way too young to look down the road and see shadows.

The most important thing is to find out why he is angry, and that requires a psychiatrist, or a psychologist who works with Asperger's children. Never assume anything with anger. What you're seeing in a particular moment has a cause, and usually it isn't something (except, as I said, during a "meltdown") that is in that moment.

One caution: There are many psychiatrists who consider themselves "psychopharmacologists." This doesn't help a child who needs understanding and someone other than a family member to talk to. Anger is very complicated, and it needs someone to treat it who is interested in getting at the basis, and not merely interested in "anger management."

There is a good deal more, but this post is getting too long.

Good luck

I will help better than anyone alive, I will tell you exactly what the situation is!

The fact of the matter dear friend is that he believes he is always right and you are all the problem merely because it's true! The only difference is, he, being AS can actually tell. He's actually more than OK, he's perfect. What's the big deal exactly, he doesn't agree with your views? What's he do that's so bad? Yelling and fighting? Ummmmmm 13??? I did exactly the same stuff, and swore alot at that age. Calm down, he's not a grown adult (sometimes even worse).

First rule darling, you'll never convince him he's wrong, mostly because he can't even think like a normal person, he has a neurology very different than yours, therefore you'll never understand eachother. You can't help him because he has a neurologic difference so profound he's like on the wrong planet LMAO That's how he sees things, wrong planet-like. I would actually agree with the fellow, so whatever your issues with his behavior just ignore it.

The best thing you can do is leave him alone, let him live life as he wants, and offer your support or suggest things you might HOPE he'd do, although he may not. You can't change a neurological difference by talking I'm afraid, it's biological.

I actually can't say I see what's so bad, and his brother probably has the same thing :P

Beentheredonethat brings up some excellent points As far as the sibling issues, we experience those things on a daily basis as well. Our son has AS and our daughter is an NT. Our son's behavior tends to go through phases - there are times when he and his sister get along wonderfully, and then times when her very breathing seems to annoy him. During those times he mistakes much of what she does and says as personal attacks when they really aren't. There is no magical answer, but each time we try to help him understand that there is a difference between a person just annoying him because of his own perceptions and really specifically trying to argue with him. We also try to help him understand that while it's ok to stand up for himself if someone is deliberately being confrontational, he cannot control other people when they're just being themselves, so he has to remove himself from the situation instead of starting a fight. There are times when he is able to process this stuff and will walk away, and times when we feel like we're talking to ourselves. It's not fair for the person with AS to shoulder the entire burden of trying to fit in and learn, so we're also teaching our NT that she needs to be sensitive to her brother's moods and try to understand why he sometimes misinterprets her behavior. Both of our kids are very young still, so this whole process requires a lot of patience and repetition, but I have faith that it'll pay off. I don't know if, when or how the lightbulb will pop on for either of them, but we won't give up trying. In the meantime, like beentheredonethat pointed out, you have to address your own stress level somehow so that you have the patience to keep at it.

Sibling issues are a normal part of having children, infact I wouldn't even call them "issues" but rather just a part of life. "Tends to go through phases"? Are you kidding? He's a kid for crying out loud LMAO. Oh and as to the "very breathing annoys him" thing, yeah that's actually exactly how I feel alot, and not only this but when people eat it pisses me off, they chew like freaks and ding the forks against the plates, so you can see this isn't an isolated thing. Please for the love of god don't hit plates with forks, don't you have any brains to coordinate eating with!



When he walks away instead of confronting someone that's bothering him it's actual painful, believe me. Even if they're not intentionally doing the act if he doesn't tell them or say they're disgusting him it will make him sad and depressed.



There will never be a light bulb that goes off for him, it's already lit! See he's actually right, NT's make everything sick and icky, better to yell at them and become mad or angry. If you're chewing, and it pisses us off, well you'd better stop it or go away! We're from another planet, one that you are not welcome on if you can't act how we like.

sderenzi:
Get real. You can't live successfully in a world that says "I'm right and all the rest of you are wrong, and if you don't like it, get off my planet." Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Sounds to me like you've been mistreated yourself (I'm just 'sayin). The question I have for you, and anyone else who takes the attitude "I'm right and all the rest of you are wrong," is ....how does that help the original questioner? Because when all is said and done, the NTs outnumber us (yes, I said us....I'm an Aspi too), and they can do unto us a great deal more than we can do unto them. Oh, and did you say you had kids?

Anger is not a very useful emotion. It usually eats up the person who is angry. Because we are Aspies, doesn't mean we're automatically right! It doesn't mean we're automatically wrong either. Asperger's is usually a disorder in which a great deal of social cues get misinterpreted. I don't think I've read any research that explains why. I have read a lot of stuff that explains anger.

As a parent (at least for myself) you spend a good deal of time worrying about what will happen to your Aspi child when you are gone. This makes a search for help mandatory. The reality of the world is that one has to work for a living, general assistance is extremely hard to get, and what parent wants their child to wind up as a bitter, introverted resident of a group home? Is that fate a foregone conclusion? Of course not. There are Aspi college professors with Nobel prizes for their work, but they have a rough time, a really rough time. There is an Aspi guy named Alexander who runs Wrong Planet, and he's one of the most independent interesting guys I've ever met, and from knowing him pretty well, I don't think there is an angry bone in his body. I think my point here is that all4myboys was asking for advice, and you're coming back with the equivilent of "it's your fault, so get over it and crawl back in your hole." That isn't helpful, and it's not very realistic.
Btdt

she disagree, she say so in nice PM to me thanking for help :-)

What I was doing dear friend is simply getting her in the mind of her child, you see Aspies are always right, at least to them. This is clear when reading your post too, you say I am utterly incorrect and to get real, lol I'll never change your mind, nor she her sons. It's a matter of learning to communicate beyond the mere framework of ones own mindset. This is only done when you stop trying to change another person, accept they cannot change, and move on. It's true NT's run the planet, and this is unfortunate, but not something we should burden eachother with. As I'm so fond of remembering, "Can a man be anything more than a man?" The answer is no we can't, niether can her son. He won't be anything other then what he's able to be, niether will you or me. What can be done is for us to change or lack of acceptance into one of tolerance. Her son has a different set of social skills he must learn, and no matter what you might teach him he'll always think he's right and everyone else is wrong.

Anyway that's some of my thoughts, I am growing fat from a meatball sub I ate :Z

He needs a new peer model I think. Just guessing but at school he probably has few friends and no one to really model himself after (at least not in a positive way). This leads him to develop like someone else he is close to... his brother, who he sees as being normal and good to emulate (which he would probably be right if his brother was older).

With that being said, is there really anything wrong with it? Sure it can be a bit annoying but he does have a moderate to severe (yeah yeah I know they call it mild but seriously if you still think its mild...) DEVELOPMENTAL disability. He is going to be behind his peers in alot of ways, especcially socially, so hanging out with your brother the way he does can be fun for him. I still am only at the developmental level of a mid-teenager (15 or 16 or so and I am 20) so hanging out with my brothers and stuff can be fun... at least when there not annoying... and I frequently do act like them. The key here is to make sure he continues to develop, hopefully faster then the normal rate so even if he stays behind he is still growing. Like I tell all parents here as I am the UOPHA feel free to PM or instant messenge me .

The sad thing about Aspergers is you often have a child who is super intelligent and super sensitive but well behind their chronological age in terms of emotional control.
It's very common for us to think we are right all the time and the more anyone tries to convince us differently, the more agitated and angry we become.

I now realise some things I did and thought in the past were mistaken and I can say that to myself. But it still hurts if somebody else says the same to me and then I become a bit defensive. At least these days I am quicker to see if I was mistaken.

It's also no good arguing the point with a child or adult Aspie who has got to the meltdown stage. It's better to drop the argument at that stage.