Schools cherry picking high functioning kids

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My son is 2 years old and were in the process of picking a CPSE school in NYC (3-5 years old). A lot of the schools make an observation session which is meant to assess which classroom to assign them to. It seems that the whole point is to exclude problematic or low functioning kids entirely from the schools with the best reputations. I think this should be illegal and its outrageous for them to do this. Has anyone seen this happen?

I only applied to the school that had evaluated my son (they told me they would give him a spot)- but he was NOT on his best behavior during the evaluation. He had a meltdown. I also had a few friends with very difficult kids who were aggressive, and they got CPSE spots in good schools. Often they really are doing an assessment to see which class. If the kid is aggressive, or a wanderer etc., they will often put that kid in the self contained.

I am in NYC too (Brooklyn). Which schools are you applying to? If you are having a hard time getting a placement, you can call the CPSE coordinator.

If you want, you can PM me. My kid is older now, but I have a few friends who had "problematic" kids get into really good schools. I can ask them where their kids went and who to call.

Of course it happens, and it is not illegal. People are being rejected not on the basis of their particular handicap, but on the basis of their behavior.

Consider this: Handicapped people get hired every day, yet some of the applicants are rejected because they enter the interview process displaying arrogance or expressing outright hostility against able-bodied people. Some make demands for "accommodations" that are unreasonable and that far exceed the scope of their particular handicap, while others just can't seem to focus on the process, even though they qualify insofar as education is concerned. Some show up dressed and groomed appropriately, while others show up with visible tattoos, excessive piercings, and revealing or provocative clothing and wonder why they don't get hired.

(And no, "reasonable accommodations" does not mean "whatever I demand".)

People getting rejected for inappropriate behavior and lack of teachability (in an advanced and accelerated learning environment) is not discrimination.

Unpleasant truth, but the truth is more often harsh than not.

Did they do or say something that lead you to this conclusion?

I know as a parent, especially when my daughter was young and newly diagnosed, I felt extremely protective of her. I believe, in retrospect looking back 7 years, that sometimes I may have been too sensitized. By this, I mean that I was so afraid of mistreatment, I may have seen hints of it when it didn't exist.

That being said, if they did or said something concrete that made you suspect this, I would call your CPSE coordinator. But what I can tell you is that up until this year, my daughter's class placement has been based on extensive observation. They are not just looking at her. They consider which teacher is most skilled at dealing with her particular issues (she is mainstreamed without an IEP) and they also try to make sure the mix of kids will be suitable. There are certain kinds of kids who are more likely to set her off, and they try to make sure she is not in the same class as kids like this. They also try to make sure that there are kids in her class who will respond well to her. It is complex, because there is a lot of moving parts. And when you think of a class that only has kids with special needs in it, it is only more complex. They have to do their best to meet the needs of everyone, not just one kid.

I only applied to the school that had evaluated my son (they told me they would give him a spot)- but he was NOT on his best behavior during the evaluation. He had a meltdown. I also had a few friends with very difficult kids who were aggressive, and they got CPSE spots in good schools. Often they really are doing an assessment to see which class. If the kid is aggressive, or a wanderer etc., they will often put that kid in the self contained.

I am in NYC too (Brooklyn). Which schools are you applying to? If you are having a hard time getting a placement, you can call the CPSE coordinator.

If you want, you can PM me. My kid is older now, but I have a few friends who had "problematic" kids get into really good schools. I can ask them where their kids went and who to call.[/]
I don't want to go into too specific issues but if the school has small class sizes and an autism program they shouldn't screen away only easy cases. My son is somewhere in the middle of the spectrum and I felt he was being judged in a negative way. It wasn't about selecting the right classroom it was about selecting easier cases.

He's not applying to Goldman Sachs, he's applying to a special needs pre k with small classroom size.

What if the school for whatever reason believes that it would not be able to help a particular child appropriately. That may be one reason they don't accept them into their school. And if it were my child in that situation, I wouldn't want him to be in a school that can't help him anyway.

Look at it this way-- If they reject your kid because he's "too autistic," what they effectively just did was save you the trouble of screening out the as*holes. They're self-screening as*holes. I wish all as*holes were self-screening.

I can't help you with CPSE-- I'm not in NYC and know nothing about it. I'm not raising, to the best of my knowledge, an autistic kid; whatever I know about raising one comes from being an autistic ex-kid who was, more or less, successfully raised.

I can say that, if another mom I know with a severely ADHD daughter and I with my mildly-to-moderately ADHD son were hunting for ADHD schools and one claimed to work with all ADHD students but accepted my son and declined her daughter on the basis of one of them "having a good day vs. having a bad day" or on the basis of her being "too ADHD," I wouldn't want my son in that school either.

I don't do deception, or elitism, or laziness if it masquerades as discernmanship (laziness that calls itself laziness, of course, is a different matter).

Whether it's legal or not, I would not want a school that cherry-picks the kids it deals with to inflate its reputation. No matter how good that reputation is, it's a LIE. I would prefer my children to be in a "lesser" school that understands and values who they are and deals honestly with them, with me, and with society at large. Regardless of the reputation and credentials of the institution, they'll get more out of the so-called "lesser" school.

I know this (or think I do) first-hand. I got a much better education out of my crappy, barely-accredited rural high school than I did out of what was supposedly one of the ten best public elementary schools in the state of West Virginia.

It's hard to judge the quality of elementary education across my kids-- Oldest Daughter is the type that would have gotten a good education ANYWHERE and The Boy is more difficult to educate. However, I rather suspect that Oldest Daughter's crappy rural grade school education is serving her better than a "good school district" education with all the bells and whistles has served her friends-- the slower pace and lower expectations she had in Arkansas actually seems to have given her a BETTER grasp of the fundamentals of reading, writing, and math than a lot of her peers.

It is difficult and perhaps foolish to compare an NT/BAP female to an ADHD male...

...especially when said female was the oldest child in her class, while said male is third from the youngest in his...

...but although she was exposed to less and less was required of her, she seems to have had a better grasp of the fundamentals at his age than he has now, so-called "better" schools notwithstanding.

I look at it as if they rejected your kid, it's because they don't have the right education there for him and the right tools and it wouldn't be a good school for him anyway. There, now the OP didn't have to put her son there and then find out he is still having problems and still can't get the right help.

Well, how do you think that CPSE schools have become so successful? The same way that the best companies become successful: they bring the people on board who are both able and willing to evolve and grow; provide them with the best resources and environment possible; establish attainable goals; teach them what they need to know; and guide them every step of the way.

This model for success breaks down when the people they bring on board are unwilling or unable (or both) to apply themselves; when the resources are limited or the environment is inhospitable; when goals are either vague, incomplete, or non-existent (or ignored completely); when the curriculum is based on religion, superstition, or obsolete knowledge; and teachers themselves are misguided, guide their students into dead-end activities, or fail to guide their students at all.

And what about that one student out of a hundred who requires ninety percent of the teacher's attention to merely earn a passing grade? What happens to the other ninety-nine students who could excel and graduate early with full-ride scholarships to prestigious universities? Better that one should fail than hundreds more receive sub-standard education.

I think the quotes above are messed up. At any rate...

I think, from my perspective, it is never as cut and dry as it looks. For example, you have to look at percentages. If, let's say....65% of the kids eligible for the program are "HF" (btw, very difficult to tell HF/LF in a 2-3 y/o IMHO), then shouldn't 65% of the available seats in "good" schools go to HF kids? Or are we saying that there should not be equal access to autism-specific schools? That more impaired children should be more entitled to the best resources?

That doesn't seem right.

BTW, you should be grateful to be in NYC for EI and CPSE. Compared to pretty much the rest of the planet, you are going to get better and more services. We lived in NYC when my daughter was first diagnosed and I can tell you I have yet to find more families than I can count on one hand who got the services we got. Most people fought for literally about 10-20% of the hours we had without any fight at all. I know it may be hard to see that when you are new to all of this, but seriously, we were the envy of everyone. And my daughter was not HF at the time. When you start traveling the 'net and seeing what parents everywhere have to face, you will find yourself more and more grateful. When it all falls to hell in NYC is after CPSE. So take advantage of your good fortune now (just a cautionary word that you can choose to ignore if you wish), and plan to move far, far away before your kid is subjected to "services" in elementary school.

I would look for another CPSE preschool spot as soon as possible. Many of the "good" programs for autistic children fill up quickly (there are not enough spots). Some children who do not get places, end up with SEIT (Special Education Itinerant Teacher) a special education teacher that travels to your home or private daycare. Fewer OT and ST are willing to travel. Some children have IEP's with services listed, but are not getting the services because there is not enough available staff. Know the type of program you want. Some CPSE preschools specialize in working with children with autism. They may have different teaching methods. Find out which method is best for your child. (ABA, TEACCH (independent workstations), PECS (Picture Exchange Communication System), sensory gym). Ask questions when you visit a school. There are classes of many different ratios (check your IEP): 6:1:2 (6 children, one teacher, 2 assistants), classes of 8 children, 12 children and integrated classes. Visit CPSE schools and pick one you think is the best match for your child. Bus service is available free from your home. The best school for your child may not be the closest school to your home.

tbh thats for the better.
ive been put in classes with kids that are ret*d before the implication is that im the same as your son and that im ret*d and if its going to hurt my education there is no reason for me to put up with it. if you hurt other peoples education your only causing other people pain.

I had a friend who taught junior-high school classes for deaf and hard-of-hearing students. In the second year of his tenure, budgeting caused the school (or district) to combine the students with all the disabled students. My friend saw the social cohesion of his classes deteriorate. Several all but dropped out. It turns out (no surprise, really) that even disabled students have a social pecking order. Some students considered other students "stupid" or ... well you get the idea. My friend ended up teaching the material twice (once to his deaf students and again to his other disabled, but hearing, students). So, in my friend's opinion, blending students of different disabilities or severities isn't always a good idea. Sure, it might help some students to transition into mainstreamed curriculum. But, others might not benefit from the experience as much as others would. As a nation, we saw this phenomenon during the deaf-college protests in the early 1990s who made similar demands. Sometimes, segregation works.

BKDad82, did you end up with a school placement for your child that you feel good about?